what would a +2 wisdom race look like anyway?

[Rfkannen]

we don't have any. I was tryiing to think about what races we could get that would get a +2 wisdom, I couldnt think of one?

What races from past editions if brought to 5th do you think would be +2 wisdom

what traits should haveing +2 wisdom imply about the race?

what kind of race should have +2 wisdom?

[mephnick]

Everything about the regular elf points to a wisdom based race. Old, extraordinary senses, in touch with surroundings, lots of tradition.

They should probably get wisdom over dexterity or intelligence.

[M Placeholder]

The Githzerai, being a race of monks that know the teachings of Zerth and are skilled in psionics, should have a wisdom of +2.

[LordVonDerp]

Minotaur. They they also get proficiency in nature and dungeoneering

[Madfellow]

Vistani, Illumians, and Aasimar are what come to my mind. All very mystical and aloof.

[bloodshed343]

In my mind, Vistani either get +2 int or wis and +1 to int/wis and cha. Skill proficiency in Arcana and guidance as a cantrip.

[Shining Wrath]

Awakened Animals might fit the ticket - as former beasts, they are closely attuned to their surroundings and less accustomed to being focused on the internal musings of their own minds.

[ChubbyRain]

Everything about the regular elf points to a wisdom based race. Old, extraordinary senses, in touch with surroundings, lots of tradition.

They should probably get wisdom over dexterity or intelligence.

Yeah, I agree. Though D&D's fandom/rip off of Tolkien will keep them from ever being different.


Minotaur. They they also get proficiency in nature and dungeoneering

Sorry but no, minotaurs may be wise or whatever but they would be a +2 Str race.

Of course you could balance it with the Dwarf and go +2 Str, +2 Wis.



Vistani, Illumians, and Aasimar are what come to my mind. All very mystical and aloof.

Aasimars are +2 Cha. I get it, angels are going to be charismatic, but I would have preferred a +2 Wis.

Illumians would be an interesting race. They couldn't be based off the current human, just make new subraces of humans be distant cousins I guess.

+2 Wisdom, +1 other, +1 other setup would work. Like the half elf.

[Giant2005]

I kind of like the fact that humans are the only race that can start with +2 Wis. As long as that stays true, humans aren't just the bland, average race that DnD usually portrays them as - they are the wisest of them all.

[ChubbyRain]

I kind of like the fact that humans are the only race that can start with +2 Wis. As long as that stays true, humans aren't just the bland, average race that DnD usually portrays them as - they are the wisest of them all.

Really? That is what is keeping humans from being bland?

Sorry but no, humans are still as bland as ever.

Ability Score improvements are the blandest part of a race, ideally ASIs wouldn't be part of the race at all.

Just give everyone 3 points and let them describe and show what their character has done with themselves.

[Easy_Lee]

Awakened Animals might fit the ticket - as former beasts, they are closely attuned to their surroundings and less accustomed to being focused on the internal musings of their own minds.

Going with this concept, I feel that a wide variety of half-animal races could fit quite well.

Frogloks, EQ-Style
Any Ape- or Monkey-like race.
Centaurs
Etc.

[Person_Man]

I'd prefer to just abolish all racial ability score bonuses, since they strongly encourage certain race/class combinations and discourage others. Having said that, I think Buomman, Centaur, and other "half-animal" races will eventually be imported and are likely to have +2 Wis.

[Mandragola]

I'd prefer to just abolish all racial ability score bonuses, since they strongly encourage certain race/class combinations and discourage others.

Whether or not you agree with that, it's clearly deliberate, and I think they've achieved what they set out to do. They've gone out of their way to make the "archetypal" stuff like the half-orc barbarian, dragonborn paladin, half-elf bard or gnome wizard work well.

What I like is how they've not prevented you from doing other stuff, and often it works pretty well really. The stuff that feels like it should work does work, but other stuff can work too. You're not railroaded.

So overall I see where you're coming from but it's not a problem for me personally.

[Rfkannen]

Whether or not you agree with that, it's clearly deliberate, and I think they've achieved what they set out to do. They've gone out of their way to make the "archetypal" stuff like the half-orc barbarian, dragonborn paladin, half-elf bard or gnome wizard work well.

What I like is how they've not prevented you from doing other stuff, and often it works pretty well really. The stuff that feels like it should work does work, but other stuff can work too. You're not railroaded.

So overall I see where you're coming from but it's not a problem for me personally.

yeah, I like that my dwarf ranger is tuffer and less damaging than an elf would be. I suppose if you want to play something like a dragonborn wizard it can be anoying as those stats do absolutly nothing for it. But for most the stats stear your character in a way that can be fun.

Though sometimes, when you just want to make a tinkergnome archer, you do get anoyed at racial stats.

[hecetv]

There's no +2 wis races because they're too wise to go out and adventure

[rollingForInit]

I'd prefer to just abolish all racial ability score bonuses, since they strongly encourage certain race/class combinations and discourage others. Having said that, I think Buomman, Centaur, and other "half-animal" races will eventually be imported and are likely to have +2 Wis.

I agree with this.

[ChubbyRain]

I'd prefer to just abolish all racial ability score bonuses, since they strongly encourage certain race/class combinations and discourage others. Having said that, I think Buomman, Centaur, and other "half-animal" races will eventually be imported and are likely to have +2 Wis.

Rat-folk should obviously be +2 Wis, just look at master splinter.

Of course he was a crazy borderline sociopath but whatever.

[Balyano]

When I think of a +2 Wis race the first thing that always comes to my mind is the 4e Deva. I think a 5e version of the Killoren would be a +2 Wis race as well. Both races are ones I'd like to see in 5e, I love their fluff.

Githzerai could work for me, but I would rather there be a single Gith race (+2 Dex) with two subraces, Githzerai being +1 Wis as a result.

Illumians are another race I would love to see updated for 5e. I could go with them being either Int or Wis based. I would have prefered for humans to be set up with the subrace option, that way a bunch of near humans could be subraces, and so could certain regional variants from different settings.

[ChubbyRain]

When I think of a +2 Wis race the first thing that always comes to my mind is the 4e Deva. I think a 5e version of the Killoren would be a +2 Wis race as well. Both races are ones I'd like to see in 5e, I love their fluff.

Githzerai could work for me, but I would rather there be a single Gith race (+2 Dex) with two subraces, Githzerai being +1 Wis as a result.

Illumians are another race I would love to see updated for 5e. I could go with them being either Int or Wis based. I would have prefered for humans to be set up with the subrace option, that way a bunch of near humans could be subraces, and so could certain regional variants from different settings.

Neanderthal (I would say +2 Str, +2 Dex) would be another human relative I would like to see updated to 5e. Prof in Athletics or Acrobatics. Specific weapons increase their die by one size (spear, d8 one handed, d10 two handed) (great club, 2d6 damage) (light simple weapons are all finessable and increase die size by one, most to d6 or d8).

[Malifice]

When I think of a +2 Wis race the first thing that always comes to my mind is the 4e Deva. I think a 5e version of the Killoren would be a +2 Wis race as well. Both races are ones I'd like to see in 5e, I love their fluff.

Githzerai could work for me, but I would rather there be a single Gith race (+2 Dex) with two subraces, Githzerai being +1 Wis as a result.

Illumians are another race I would love to see updated for 5e. I could go with them being either Int or Wis based. I would have prefered for humans to be set up with the subrace option, that way a bunch of near humans could be subraces, and so could certain regional variants from different settings.

I'm seeing Gith as a race (+2 Wis) with (+1 Dex) -zeri and (+1 Con) -yanki.

No-one aside from a DnD player could understand that sentence above.

[Psikerlord]

I'm a big fan of letting any race add it's bonuses to any stat. The player then chooses the race based on fluff and the remaining mechanics. Sure, NPCs all use the standard bonuses - but PCs can break the mould.

[Malifice]

I'm a big fan of letting any race add it's bonuses to any stat. The player then chooses the race based on fluff and the remaining mechanics. Sure, NPCs all use the standard bonuses - but PCs can break the mould.

Not really an issue for me with the point buy system as is. Racial mods arent all that of a huge deal at the end of the day for mine, even taking into account bounded accuracy.

Weirdly things like the Mountain dwarfs armor proficiencies make it a good choice for dwarven wizards.

I do house rule 'small' races to not be allowed to allocate more than a 12 to starting Strength, and allow them to reduce it to as low as 6 at the games start (gaining an extra point for 7, and an extra 3 points total for a 6). I also allow them to raise starting Dex to as high as 16 (for the cost of 3 extra points).

[Naanomi]

I see WIS race as quiet, contemplative, mostly peaceful... Rare adventurers at best.

The Dark Crystal's urRu, or Ivalice's Nu Mou come to mind.

[Person_Man]

Whether or not you agree with that, it's clearly deliberate, and I think they've achieved what they set out to do. They've gone out of their way to make the "archetypal" stuff like the half-orc barbarian, dragonborn paladin, half-elf bard or gnome wizard work well.

What I like is how they've not prevented you from doing other stuff, and often it works pretty well really. The stuff that feels like it should work does work, but other stuff can work too. You're not railroaded.

So overall I see where you're coming from but it's not a problem for me personally.

I understand your perspective, and agree that its not a huge issue.

But they included ability score modifiers because of tradition (ie, for better marketing to 3.X/PF players) and simulationist reasons ("Dwarves are hardier, elves are more agile..."), and not for balance or gamist reasons. And it really, really annoys me when most players choose a race because of its ability score modifiers, which happens in pretty much every RAW D&D game I've played since 3rd edition (1E/2E had ability score requirements for races instead). People should choose the race that fits their character concept, not the race that makes them 5% more effective.

[Maxilian]

Vistani, Illumians, and Aasimar are what come to my mind. All very mystical and aloof.

Well we have Aasimar in the DMG and is not 2 WIS (i know that it doesn't mean much) but it could work for the Devas

[hecetv]

But they included ability score modifiers because of tradition (ie, for better marketing to 3.X/PF players) and simulationist reasons ("Dwarves are hardier, elves are more agile..."), and not for balance or gamist reasons. And it really, really annoys me when most players choose a race because of its ability score modifiers, which happens in pretty much every RAW D&D game I've played since 3rd edition (1E/2E had ability score requirements for races instead). People should choose the race that fits their character concept, not the race that makes them 5% more effective.

I think they had to stop Druids from completely running the show somehow. By making no race get +2 wis they tried to hold them off for a second.

[Inevitability]

In 3.5, I believe there were only a few +wis races.

These were the lesser Aasimar (already confirmed to not have +2 wis), the buomman (highly unlikely to be ever seen again), several anthropomorphic races that were grossly overpowered (yeah, sure we get those) and jermlaines (rat-controlling tiny fey... no).

In 4e, there were a few races that gained +2 wisdom. However, because of 4e's +2/+2 bonuses, most of these would probably only get +1 wisdom when used in 5e.
-Deva
-Drow
-Dwarf
-Elf
-Githzerai
-Goliath
-Half-elf
-Kalashtar
-Minotaur
-Mul
-Shadar-Kai
-Shardmind
-Shifter
-Thri-Kreen
-Wilden

Races in red are already available without +2 wisdom.

You know, I could see Kalashtar working. As soon as Eberron gets released for real, I think we finally get our wise race.

[Chronos]

Quoth Person_Man:

People should choose the race that fits their character concept, not the race that makes them 5% more effective.
What ability scores you're good at is part of a character concept.

[Easy_Lee]

Not that it helps much for the debate, but I feel this is what variants and sub-races are for. We can conceive of a subrace with +1 or +2 whatever for most races, and clear it with the DM if it's something we want to homebrew. That said, official support for more +wis races would be very appreciated. As is, there are only a few races who make for valid clerics and monks assuming the standard stats or point buy are used.

[Chronos]

What gets me is just how many classes the Wood Elf (or Aarakockra, now) has the best stats for. Wis and Dex being the top two priorities is surprisingly common, covering rangers, monks, some druids, and some clerics, at the least, plus possibly some rogues.

[Rfkannen]

What gets me is just how many classes the Wood Elf (or Aarakockra, now) has the best stats for. Wis and Dex being the top two priorities is surprisingly common, covering rangers, monks, some druids, and some clerics, at the least, plus possibly some rogues.
You are right, also what rogues? I can not think of a wisdom rogue build and now want it.

[ChubbyRain]

What gets me is just how many classes the Wood Elf (or Aarakockra, now) has the best stats for. Wis and Dex being the top two priorities is surprisingly common, covering rangers, monks, some druids, and some clerics, at the least, plus possibly some rogues.

If going with the "let's give everyone specific ability score increases" they should have at least followed their saving throw formula, in a way.

Everyone gets a +2 to a bad saving throw ability score. This includes Strength, Intelligence, and Charisma.
Every subrace gets a +1 to a good saving throw ability score. This includes Dexterity, Constitution, and Wisdom.

This way you don't have doubling up on the good or bad saving throw ability scores. Give races interesting abilities instead of ASIs if you want to represent a race in a certain way.

If you don't like that Dwarves are +2 Str, +1 Con... Well you can always give the race/subrace a feature to show they are extra tough. Like extra HP per level, no matter what Con you do have, you will always have more HP than another race at the same level (and hit die).

[Balyano]

AHA! The Wilden, I'd forgotten, they are the Killoren updated for 4e, just renamed. As opposed to the Deva being a complete re-imagining of the Aasimar. Does this mean they are more likely to update the Killoren for 5e? Probably non-indicative but I'll let it fill me with false hope and fuel my fantasies...I wonder how their racial traits would work in 5e?

[bloodshed343]

You are right, also what rogues? I can not think of a wisdom rogue build and now want it.


Rogues want Dex/Wis/Con for perception and hp unless the rogue is an arcane trickster, in which case they want Dex/Wis/Int. Perception is the most important skill for someone who will be scouting/finding traps, and allows you to dip 2 levels of monk, which makes you harder to hit and increases your damage fairly significantly, or druid, which let's you turn into a rat and stealth like a boss.