Death master->Swift blade->Abjurant Champion

[Void Bovine]

So was realizing with the feat arcane disciple "time domain" this could be done the result seems really over powered I figured spin the class in favor of time aspect of a death god might work better as far theme goes sorta like a grim reaper or angel of death type!

[Snowbluff]

Death Masters aren't really strong, are they?

[Flickerdart]

Yeah, the whole point of going into the alternate "specialized" caster classes is that you get class features to make up for losing 90% of your spells. If you're going to leap into powerful PrCs anyway, you're giving up the whole reason for becoming a Death Master. You are much, much better off going regular Necromancer wizard.

[atemu1234]

Yeah, the whole point of going into the alternate "specialized" caster classes is that you get class features to make up for losing 90% of your spells. If you're going to leap into powerful PrCs anyway, you're giving up the whole reason for becoming a Death Master. You are much, much better off going regular Necromancer wizard.

Banned Schools: Evocation and usually Enchanting. Because power.

[Void Bovine]

Yeah also only class that can pull this and cast lvl 8 spells in a 20 lvl progression.....remember death master as average bab

[Flickerdart]

Yeah also only class that can pull this and cast lvl 8 spells in a 20 lvl progression.....remember death master as average bab
No, you can get 8th level spells with regular old Wizard. Wizard 6/Swiftblade 10/Abjurant Champion 4 works just fine. Martial Arcanist isn't necessary for a build like this, since your CL is just 1 point under your BAB, and Practiced Spellcaster will top out at 20 on either build.

[Void Bovine]

I mean yeah if you want the hit in bab...and hit points

[Flickerdart]

I mean yeah if you want the hit in bab...and hit points
Wizard 6: 4+5d4 HP (average 17.5) and +3 BAB.
Death Master 5/Abjurant Champion 1: 8+4d8+1d10 HP (average 31.5) and +4 BAB.

So for +1 BAB and 14 HP, you want to give up 90% of the spells available to you? Oh, and don't forget the extra feat you need to waste on Arcane Disciple, and then the WIS you need to cast Haste from it. Not to mention that you can only cast Haste 1/day, so in order to meet Swiftblade's requirements you have to not have a bonus 3rd level spell slot. Which means a maximum Intelligence of 15, and I don't think I need to explain why having a low casting stat is a terrible idea.

Overpowered? I think you've found a great way to make two amazing PrCs as weak as possible while still casting 9th level spells.

[Urpriest]

Wizard 6: 4+5d4 HP (average 17.5) and +3 BAB.
Death Master 5/Abjurant Champion 1: 8+4d8+1d10 HP (average 31.5) and +4 BAB.

So for +1 BAB and 14 HP, you want to give up 90% of the spells available to you? Oh, and don't forget the extra feat you need to waste on Arcane Disciple, and then the WIS you need to cast Haste from it. Not to mention that you can only cast Haste 1/day, so in order to meet Swiftblade's requirements you have to not have a bonus 3rd level spell slot. Which means a maximum Intelligence of 15, and I don't think I need to explain why having a low casting stat is a terrible idea.

Overpowered? I think you've found a great way to make two amazing PrCs as weak as possible while still casting 9th level spells.

You're making a pretty dramatic assumption here. "Death Masters have a Spellbook and thus can learn Wizard spells" is one of the most common forms of Death Master cheese, and generally if someone wants to play a Death Master it's because they think they can get away with that.

In that case, not sure why the OP feels the need to get the Time Domain, though.

[Flickerdart]

You're making a pretty dramatic assumption here. "Death Masters have a Spellbook and thus can learn Wizard spells" is one of the most common forms of Death Master cheese, and generally if someone wants to play a Death Master it's because they think they can get away with that.

In that case, not sure why the OP feels the need to get the Time Domain, though.
The fact that people have to "think they can get away with that" shows that my assumption is far from drastic.

[Void Bovine]

Spell book does not allow you to learn new spells off lists you don't have access to as far as I know so you only can learn death master spells this applies to the wizard and wu gen to. Also if you go wizard you still need to take martial weapon proficiency...

[Flickerdart]

Also if you go wizard you still need to take martial weapon proficiency...
The usual solution is "be an elf" or any other race with free weapon proficiencies. It's a small price to pay for having a real spell list, and elves have some of the best wizard ACFs anyway. Be grey elf, use your spare feat (from not having to take Arcane Disciple) for Faerie Mysteries Initiate, suddenly your HP problem disappears.

[Void Bovine]

So other then my int needing to be 15 and this is in roleplaying btw so was going to run around with a scythe on a primarily melee build and long term only need 18 in int

[Flickerdart]

Yes. You need 13-15 Intelligence at level 5, plus 13 Wisdom to cast Haste from Arcane Disciple. Then you can run around with a scythe and cast Haste on yourself once a day every day. So Blurred Alacrity, Sudden Casting, Evasive Celerity, Fortified Hustle, Diligent Rapidity, Perpetual Options, and Innervated Speed only work in one combat per day for you, and for the rest of the day your Swiftblade powers are all but useless.

Overpowered, indeed.

[Void Bovine]

right forgot bout that so used to using this feat on casters that don't have to prep kinda throws a wrench into the idea...:smallfrown:

[Flickerdart]

right forgot bout that so used to using this feat on casters that don't have to prep kinda throws a wrench into the idea...:smallfrown:
The same limitation exists on spontaneous casters - they may only cast Arcane Disciple spells once a day.

[Void Bovine]

so wizard works better for 6 lvls also this way I can abuse persistent spell since I was trying to figure out a way to keep haste up and never cast it more then once:smallbiggrin: and has to be personal...rats

[Forrestfire]

To Persist a haste, you first need to apply Ocular Spell, bringing the metamagic adjustment to a total of +8. Without some sort of heavy reduction, or Incantratrix, you're not going to be able to.

[Void Bovine]

Yeah I'm thinking I should just stick with duskblade abjurant champion into swift blade at 9 and just grab extra domain slot then

[DarkSonic1337]

Duskblades do not know haste so you run into the same issue. Arcane disciple also does not give you domain slots, just the ability to cast each spell from your chosen domain 1/day.

Is there a particular reason you're against a standard sorcerer or wizard entry?

[Flickerdart]

Duskblade has the same problem - you're sacrificing the entire point of playing one (the class features) by PrCing, but still suffering the costs you paid for those features (crap spell list) throughout your career.

[Deadline]

The usual method for getting Haste to jump into Swiftblade is with Wyrm Wizard, isn't it? Not Arcane Disciple.

[Void Bovine]

actually with dusk blade I would take extra domain slot 3 times(lvl 9,12,15) for 4 uses of haste duskblade really don't suffer as much in this case full bab gets u access to rabid blitz at 18 feats for swift blade you take at lvl 1 assuming human take arcane disciple at lvl 6 leaves you one other feat dusk blades don't really get much out of meta magic or combat feats so its not really a bad trade off also its not a slot its an extra spell