Using Evil Exception

[Vhaidara]

So, Hellbred are one of my favorite races, and their Evil Exception ability is fantastic. However, I've never found it very useful. So what if I can use Unholy weapons without penalty? They only get bonuses against Good creatures, and I'm fighting Evil.

Can anyone help me find items that can only be used by evil characters that are useful when fighting Evil enemies?

[Hand_of_Vecna]

So, Hellbred are one of my favorite races, and their Evil Exception ability is fantastic. However, I've never found it very useful. So what if I can use Unholy weapons without penalty? They only get bonuses against Good creatures, and I'm fighting Evil.

Can anyone help me find items that can only be used by evil characters that are useful when fighting Evil enemies?

I think you're mostly out of luck. If I remember right, even the best stuff from BOVD like fleshgrinding doesn't have the evil tag. IME the best evil items that aren't useless to you, like unholy angel slaying swords, are generic items that just happen to be evil. These items are only a good deal if you happen upon them. That said, I also find modules (and some dms) to be fond of dangling +3 flaming unholy axes in front parties that just recentlt got +1 weapons. If you get one of those and ignore the unholy, you're probably main handing close to wbl for your whole party. Of course some dms will feel the need to punish this or won't insert such an item specifically to prevent buffing a hellbred PC.

[Psyren]

Well, there's Demon Armor, but I think it's way overpriced.

The main use of this ability is for routine evil spellcasting, particularly necromancy, on a non-evil character. The item use is as you have noted is much less useful.

I don't know if there is a searchable database or version of MiC out there somewhere, but try looking for "nonevil" - most of the items that penalize you use that word.

[Telonius]

Well, you could wear a black Robe of the Archmagi or Demon Armor without penalty.

If you really want to lawyer up, you could argue that holding an Unholy Weapon makes you immune to taking negative levels, at all. The wording is, "never gains negative levels while wielding evil magic items." It doesn't specify that the negative levels have to be inflicted as a result of the evil magic item. (Note: you should probably have a helmet on before you suggest this; books will likely be thrown).

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Well, there's Demon Armor, but I think it's way overpriced

Looked at that before posting. About 34k gp for +1 claws with large die type for claws that deal low DC debuff that doesn't instantly end fights on a failed save.:smallyuk:

[Telonius]

Incarnum on the brain (thanks to some of the contests running) ... but would those claw attacks technically be taking up the Armor slot, and not the hands slot, as far as chakras are concerned? That could be useful on a Totemist.

[Psyren]

Incarnum on the brain (thanks to some of the contests running) ... but would those claw attacks technically be taking up the Armor slot, and not the hands slot, as far as chakras are concerned? That could be useful on a Totemist.

No, they take up hands, because full plate:


This +4 full plate allows the wearer to make claw attacks that deal 1d10 points of damage, strike as +1 weapons, and afflict the target as if she had been struck by a contagion spell (Fortitude DC 14 negates). Use of contagion requires a normal melee attack with the claws. The "claws" are built into the armor’s vambraces and gauntlets.


Full Plate
The suit includes gauntlets, heavy leather boots, a visored helmet, and a thick layer of padding that is worn underneath the armor. Each suit of full plate must be individually fitted to its owner by a master armorsmith, although a captured suit can be resized to fit a new owner at a cost of 200 to 800 (2d4×100) gold pieces.

Full plate includes gauntlets, and since these gauntlets are magical, they take up your hands slot unless you have Split Chakra.

[Flickerdart]

Well, you could wear a black Robe of the Archmagi or Demon Armor without penalty.

If you really want to lawyer up, you could argue that holding an Unholy Weapon makes you immune to taking negative levels, at all. The wording is, "never gains negative levels while wielding evil magic items." It doesn't specify that the negative levels have to be inflicted as a result of the evil magic item. (Note: you should probably have a helmet on before you suggest this; books will likely be thrown).
The sad thing is that "never gains negative levels for wielding magic items" would have matched the intent without compromising the meaning. Perhaps WotC should have taken a clue and "fetched a child of five" as the joke goes.

[TheIronGolem]

This sort of thing is the reason I feel that Holy/Unholy weapons should still deal 1d6 sacred/profane damage even when the target isn't of opposing alignment. It seems weird that a weapon infused with unholy energies is no more useful than a vanilla +1 sword when you're fighting murderous bandits or something.

[Telonius]

My headcanon is that this is one reason why the Blood War has gone on so long; it's hard for devils and demons to overcome each other's DR.

[Psyren]

My headcanon is that this is one reason why the Blood War has gone on so long; it's hard for devils and demons to overcome each other's DR.

Or regen for that matter :smallbiggrin:

[Hand_of_Vecna]

The sad thing is that "never gains negative levels for wielding magic items" would have matched the intent without compromising the meaning. Perhaps WotC should have taken a clue and "fetched a child of five" as the joke goes.

I'm pretty sure a few items do damage on contact. If I'm incorrect, I'm certain it's a previous edition memory. I think we can safely assume the writer/proofr had the same memory.

Of course this doesn't mean the quote couldn't be "never gains negative levels or take damage for touching or wielding magic items."

[Andezzar]

Well, you could wear a black Robe of the Archmagi or Demon Armor without penalty.
How is the black robe much better than the white or grey ones?

[Bronk]

How is the black robe much better than the white or grey ones?

More likely to be worn by your evil opponents?

That's probably what the main benefit is. You don't have to resell evil items worn by the bad guys.

[Andezzar]

Well if you sell it and watch who is buying it you have a whole new adventure...

[atemu1234]

You can technically carry one around when you're taking one to get sanctified. Without negative levels.

[Telonius]

Also, more likely to be found in in your neighborhood, if you happen to be a Hellbred. It might be a bit difficult to find a white one in Baator.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

How is the black robe much better than the white or grey ones?

Its a matter of found items. Found items save money vs selling items and buying new ones. Furthermore, selling Evil items raises a secondary quandry of wether selling Evil items and thus reintroducing them to the economy morally justified.

[Snowbluff]

Full plate includes gauntlets, and since these gauntlets are magical, they take up your hands slot unless you have Split Chakra.
Actually, it take a body slot if it says it does. A suit of armor takes up the Body slot if it takes up the body slot. No suit of armor that includes gauntlets includes the Hands slot, such as Dragonrider Armor.

[Psyren]

Actually, it take a body slot if it says it does. A suit of armor takes up the Body slot if it takes up the body slot. No suit of armor that includes gauntlets includes the Hands slot, such as Dragonrider Armor.

It specifically says the +1 claws are due to the gauntlets though.

[Snowbluff]

It specifically says the +1 claws are due to the gauntlets though.

Obviously, you're not wearing them on your hands. :smalltongue:

[Starbuck_II]

Obviously, you're not wearing them on your hands. :smalltongue:

Where are they wearing them as a hat? :smalltongue:

Seriously that is a cool loophole: "never gains negative levels while wielding evil magic items"

[Telonius]

Considering the source book, I think we can assume that Asmodeus had some representatives in the editing department.