Vow of Enmity

[Lia_]

Hello everyone,

I am a level 4 paladin and I am having issues with following my oath. I'm assuming I am a bit confused with what my oath entails so advice or clarifications would be much appreciated.

I understand that my oath binds me and from what I know my channel divinity -- vow of enmity -- is an ability I can use at most once until I do a short or long rest.

Now I've been told that when I use my vow of enmity in game, I am now bound to destroy that enemy at all costs. But obviously if I use it on the bosses, sometimes story lines do not allow me to kill them off right then and there or track them. So does that mean I should be more careful with who or what I use my vow of enmity against?

I'm just saying if I don't end up killing who I did a vow of enmity against, I don't want to risk breaking my oath for it. I just find it unfair if using that channel of divinity would have that consequence attached to it.

[youtellatale]

Hello everyone,

I am a level 4 paladin and I am having issues with following my oath. I'm assuming I am a bit confused with what my oath entails so advice or clarifications would be much appreciated.

I understand that my oath binds me and from what I know my channel divinity -- vow of enmity -- is an ability I can use at most once until I do a short or long rest.

Now I've been told that when I use my vow of enmity in game, I am now bound to destroy that enemy at all costs. But obviously if I use it on the bosses, sometimes story lines do not allow me to kill them off right then and there or track them. So does that mean I should be more careful with who or what I use my vow of enmity against?

I'm just saying if I don't end up killing who I did a vow of enmity against, I don't want to risk breaking my oath for it. I just find it unfair if using that channel of divinity would have that consequence attached to it.

This sounds like you might want to talk to your DM. Your personal oath would be whatever you, the player, comes up with for your PC, the character. The book gives you some Tenets of Vengeance when you do this and you can pick these or you can RP with it, but make sure you stay within the vengeance style so you're still RPing the character.

To your question - no you aren't breaking your vow if you don't kill the person. Bringing someone to justice can be an act of Vengeance. The Vow of Emnity states that you gain advantage on attack rolls against the creature for 1 minue or until it drops to 0 hp or falls unconscious. If your DM is ruling otherwise then you'll definitely want to talk to them about this as it's not RAW nor RAI. This was a mechanical advantage. What your DM seems to be doing is much like saying that if you're a Rogue with the Assassin feature and you don't kill someone that you've chosen to use the class feature on, then you're not an Assassin anymore.

My advice, talk to the GM/DM and explain what you feel your actual paladin oath is and what your beliefs are. Why did you take the Oath of Vengeance (in RP terms)? If it's purely mechanical and without RP implications then maybe your DM is trying to say something (definitely the wrong way to do this IMO).

[Mandragola]

Using your oath of enmity class feature is not the same thing as the oath of vengeance you swore at level 3. That oath, to follow particular tenets which you define, is the one you need to follow. You don't lose your powers because the bad guys get away, or even if they beat you (assuming you survive).

Oath of emnity is telling the baddy that you don't like him, and getting a power boost to help kill him. If he wets himself and teleports away, that's not really your fault. Your God won't blame you.

[Lia_]

Using your oath of enmity class feature is not the same thing as the oath of vengeance you swore at level 3. That oath, to follow particular tenets which you define, is the one you need to follow. You don't lose your powers because the bad guys get away, or even if they beat you (assuming you survive).

Oath of emnity is telling the baddy that you don't like him, and getting a power boost to help kill him. If he wets himself and teleports away, that's not really your fault. Your God won't blame you.

Exactly what I thought too! I'll try to explain it again to my DM and party.

[Lia_]

To your question - no you aren't breaking your vow if you don't kill the person. Bringing someone to justice can be an act of Vengeance. The Vow of Emnity states that you gain advantage on attack rolls against the creature for 1 minue or until it drops to 0 hp or falls unconscious. If your DM is ruling otherwise then you'll definitely want to talk to them about this as it's not RAW nor RAI. This was a mechanical advantage. What your DM seems to be doing is much like saying that if you're a Rogue with the Assassin feature and you don't kill someone that you've chosen to use the class feature on, then you're not an Assassin anymore.

My advice, talk to the GM/DM and explain what you feel your actual paladin oath is and what your beliefs are. Why did you take the Oath of Vengeance (in RP terms)? If it's purely mechanical and without RP implications then maybe your DM is trying to say something (definitely the wrong way to do this IMO).

Funny coz my other character is a rogue assassin and that's exactly what I feel. I will explain it to my DM hopefully it would get us on the same page about my oath.

[PhoenixV]

I really feel like people just want to play screw the paladin and take this stuff way too far. Your paladin's oath is a matter of the heart and a way of living their life. For example the Paladin I am playing is a young man who lost a lot to evil dragons in his back story. His oath of vengeance is that he will destroy evil dragons. This is the part where in the description "normal bad guys may receive my mercy but my sworn enemy will not." My Paladin does not only fight evil dragons but that is his main goal for adventuring. To me the only way to break my oath of Vengeance would be to suddenly say, ok I'm not going to destroy evil dragons anymore. I will do something else or passably show them mercy in some situations.

Regarding the class feature Vow of Enmity this is really more of a fighting style than anything else in my opinion. Imagine you are a champion on the battle field leading your allies in the fight and a big baddie pops up on the other side. You as a leader look him in the eye and say "You! you are mine!" and go after him with everything you got. That to me is the Vow of Enmity at its core. It is a declaration of your intent to do battle with a foe giving it all you have in order to defeat them. If you fail in that instance your oath of Vengeance is not broken. Basically you are not changing your oath of Vengeance each time you use your Vow of Enmity on a single enemy. The oath of Vengeance is a lifestyle that defines your character to the core. The vow of Enmity is a single action taken in battle and could never be as meaningful or important as your sacred Oath.

[Malifice]

That... sucks.

Its like saying to a Wizard 'if you cant kill your enemies with fireball, you cant cast fireball ever again'

Poor DMing IMO.