[3.5e] Newbie in search of his soulclass

[Kezeal]

Heya

I'm in my very first campaign of D&D currently. We had a long dungeon run already, which was pretty much a "tutorial" due to more than one of us were first-timers.
I rolled a thief, but since I created a really crappy build I was worse than a kobold cleric in melee fight.
After we finished the tutorial, we were given a chance to roll completely new characters. Being a wisdom focused thief(I don't know what I was thinking) I grabbed the chance.

Being a new player, what class/race combination would you recommend so I wouldn't be completely useless compared to those that know what they're doing?

Starting at level 3, with 200g to buy supplies and equipment in a small town(so likely no rare items or something, just basic gear).

I would love to roll a sorcerer, bard would be the second choice, and an actually good rogue for my third choice.
I don't mean multiclassing those 3 classes, but those are the order of preference.
I read that arcane trickster isn't very good, which was a bit disappointing because I love sneaking, stealthing, and being a kind of an annoyance to my enemies(imagine Guild Wars 2 thief).
I love to be flashy(or even creepy-ish(have played as a "tentacle mage" in an RP, not D&D)), and the character's personality that I'll create shows it as well. He'll be energetic, talkative, thinks he's funny and always tries to show off when possible.

Also, survivability would be nice, preferably being able to avoid dying through hiding or escaping, rather than tanking(but I wouldn't say "no" to a tanking sorcerer if it's gained through spells).

Our party currently has an elf fighter(or warrior), a kobold cleric, and a halfling monk.
Not sure if they'll be keeping their classes, but I thought I should throw every bit of information in that would help you help me.

If possible, a complete build would be perfect(because I'm bad at that), and perhaps even some guidelines what to do and what not to do(it wasn't until mid-dungeon that the DM told me that my dodge feat had to be targetted. I thought it was a passive).

tl;dr
Recommend a class/race for a new player that doesn't want to be useless. Preferably sorcerer(bard, and thief shortly follow).
Starts at level 3, 200 gold.
Being flashy or creepy is always nice.
Full build would be appreciated, perhaps even some tips on how to use the class.

EDIT: Core only! DM said that psionic classes are also allowed.

[PraxisVetli]

Does Core include Player's Handbook II?
Because then I would suggesr the lovely Beguiler. They're practically all 3 in one class, and having played one personally, they're a blast!


Straight Beguiler 20 is fine, tgere are a few PrC's I would suggest, but they're certainly outside core.
I don't know any great feats unfortunately, but spells, that I can help with.
Sleep and Color Spray will carry you for 3-4 levels, after which Blinding Color Surge and Stay the Hand come online. From there, keep spells that inflict debuffs such as blinded or prone. I also like mild scrying, Clairvoyance/Clairaudience is useful from time to time.

[Galen]

Sorcerer is good. As long as you don't pick crappy spells (read up on the 'net a bit as to which spells are good) you will always be able to contribute, and it's not as complicated as cleric or wizard.

[Jurai]

You can never go wrong with a good old fashioned Totemist. Rip things apart using claws and fangs and slams and tentacles made of spirit energy. Glow blue!

[LoyalPaladin]

Sorcerer is good.
If it is a low power table, you could probably convince your DM to let you use Battle Sorcerer (Unearthed Arcana). Take a small hit to spells to gain a d8 hit die.

[Brendanicus]

As somebody whose fist character was a terrible Rogue, I feel you. It also didn't help that my DM didn't tell me how Sneak Attack worked, so I assumed I could only use it with a dagger and only on unsuspecting targets.

Sorcerers are really fun and hella powerful, just be aware that a lot of caster builds at lower levels involve dominating one or two encounters and then being useless for the rest of the day. I'm personally OK with that, but I'm not you.

As long as non-core classes are allowed, Beguiler is cool (As previously) because they can at least diplomance when out of spells, much like a Bard. Unlike a Bard, Beguilers have more magic and it tends to be a it stronger.

I'd also suggest Duskblade, also from PHBII. They are magic warriors, essentially, You'll get the AC and BAB of a Fighter, and a bunch of neat attack spells. Their only flaw is that they tend to not have much health.

Also, if you like deception-y spells, like Illusions or Enchantments, be aware that Spell Focus is a core feat that's really good for specialized spellcasters of any class. Whenever you take Spell Focus, you pick one school of Magic (Necromancy, Enchantment, etc.) Spells from that school get a +1 to their DC. Nice for save-or-suck builds, or if you're a blaster and you end up fighting a lot of Rogues.

EDIT: Rangers have very little magic, but they are a blast to play in low-optimization campaigns. They get enough skill points that if you want to be stealthy, you can (Just don't expect to have max Tracking a Bluff on top of that). From an RP perspective, they can be played from so many angles, from noble to flashy to quiet to grim to etc. Plus Rangers are fun to use magic items with. Arrows that have Fireball or Dispel Magic on them? Yes please.

[Necromancy]

Hard to answer this one without some game info. What level are you playing to?

[Kezeal]

You can never go wrong with a good old fashioned Totemist.

Unfortunately not in the core.


Does Core include Player's Handbook II?

Unfortunately not.


If it is a low power table, you could probably convince your DM to let you use Battle Sorcerer (Unearthed Arcana). Take a small hit to spells to gain a d8 hit die.

Unearthed Arcana isn't core either.


As somebody whose fist character was a terrible Rogue, I feel you. It also didn't help that my DM didn't tell me how Sneak Attack worked, so I assumed I could only use it with a dagger and only on unsuspecting targets.

I was told that you can only do it when the opponent doesn't know you're attacking or something.


Sorcerers are really fun and hella powerful, just be aware that a lot of caster builds at lower levels involve dominating one or two encounters and then being useless for the rest of the day. I'm personally OK with that, but I'm not you.

That doesn't sound too bad.


As long as non-core classes are allowed,

Nope =/


EDIT: Rangers have very little magic, but they are a blast to play in low-optimization campaigns. They get enough skill points that if you want to be stealthy, you can (Just don't expect to have max Tracking a Bluff on top of that). From an RP perspective, they can be played from so many angles, from noble to flashy to quiet to grim to etc. Plus Rangers are fun to use magic items with. Arrows that have Fireball or Dispel Magic on them? Yes please.

Not a fan of keeping track of my arrows, to be honest.


Hard to answer this one without some game info. What level are you playing to?

Uncertain.

[Blackhawk748]

Well a Lesser Tiefling Rogue is solid, +2 Int and Dex is good, though the -2 Ch doesnt lend itself to being a face. Build wise i would go with TWF and get a flanking buddy. Nothing should have a functioning Kidney by time your done :smallwink:

Edit Sneak attack works when:

1: Your opponent is Denied Dex to AC
2. You are Flanking them

and thats it, its a fairly simple ability once you get used to it.

[Karl Aegis]

I'm going to suggest Human Psychic Warrior Just put one feat into Psionic Body, 10 feats into Psionic Talent and your choice of what to do with the rest of your feats. I recommend Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis) and Metamorphic Transfer as your level 17 and 18 feats. You just need to pick powers with long duration that you don't need to manifest every fight like Claws of the Beast, augmented Metaphysical Claw and Personal Psionic Mind Blank so you can manifest the cool powers that let you do cool things in combat like Vigor, Strength of my Enemy, Psionic Lion's Charge, Hustle and Expansion.

[Sian]

would recommend staying clear of 'full' casters since while sure they have a very high ceiling in terms of optimation, they also have a stupidly low floor, which would be very easy to hit when you don't know exactly what you want to do.

Would probably recommend either Ranger (Melee Combat Style).

[Kezeal]

Well a Lesser Tiefling Rogue is solid, +2 Int and Dex is good, though the -2 Ch doesnt lend itself to being a face. Build wise i would go with TWF and get a flanking buddy. Nothing should have a functioning Kidney by time your done :smallwink:

Tieflings aren't in the core =/


I'm going to suggest Human Psychic Warrior Just put one feat into Psionic Body, 10 feats into Psionic Talent and your choice of what to do with the rest of your feats. I recommend Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis) and Metamorphic Transfer as your level 17 and 18 feats. You just need to pick powers with long duration that you don't need to manifest every fight like Claws of the Beast, augmented Metaphysical Claw and Personal Psionic Mind Blank so you can manifest the cool powers that let you do cool things in combat like Vigor, Strength of my Enemy, Psionic Lion's Charge, Hustle and Expansion.

Ooh, that does sound awesome. To be honest, I've been having thoughts about making a character like from Prototype in the D&D, but I didn't think it would be possible. This sounds very similar.

[Blackhawk748]

Tieflings aren't in the core =/

The Monster Manual isnt core? Your DM is weird.

[LoyalPaladin]

Not a fan of keeping track of my arrows, to be honest.
Hahaha. No one keeps track of their arrows... do they? I went 3 years as a ranger in Dragonlance and I don't think I ever kept track of my arrows..

[Blackhawk748]

Hahaha. No one keeps track of their arrows... do they? I went 3 years as a ranger in Dragonlance and I don't think I ever kept track of my arrows..

I have only ever tracked special ones, mainly because i generally got like 20+ arrows per encounter from the idiots we looted, so i was never out of ammo. That and i could craft them, so ya mundane ammo isnt a huge concern.

[Kezeal]

The Monster Manual isnt core? Your DM is weird.

http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/basicsRacesDescription.htm
and
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedRaceGuide/ageHeightWeight.html
both say that the core races are:
Humans
Dwarves
Elves
Gnomes
Half-Elves
Half-Orcs
Halflings

[Blackhawk748]

http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/basicsRacesDescription.htm
and
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedRaceGuide/ageHeightWeight.html
both say that the core races are:
Humans
Dwarves
Elves
Gnomes
Half-Elves
Half-Orcs
Halflings

Ooooh. When i hear Core i think the 3 Core books, so by that logic the Monster Manual would be available, but if your DM said Core Races only then that changes things.

[Ephemeral_Being]

Ooooh. When i hear Core i think the 3 Core books, so by that logic the Monster Manual would be available, but if your DM said Core Races only then that changes things.

Either way, LESSER Tiefling isn't Core. Lesser Tiefling comes from one of the Forgotten Realms books. I think it's the campaign setting.

[Urpriest]

http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/basicsRacesDescription.htm
and
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedRaceGuide/ageHeightWeight.html
both say that the core races are:
Humans
Dwarves
Elves
Gnomes
Half-Elves
Half-Orcs
Halflings

Paizo is irrelevant since you aren't playing Pathfinder, and those are just the things labeled "races" on the SRD. The SRD (and the core books) also have rules for playing things in the Monster Manual. That said, while Tieflings are Core, Lesser Tieflings are not.

Are the other players also new? If not, Barbarian is probably the easiest class for a new player to keep up with slightly more experienced players.

That said, you should be able to manage a Sorceror. Since nothing in Core has a Con bonus without a Cha penalty, stick with Human, maybe Halfling if you want slightly superior defenses. Color Spray and Sleep are pretty fun spells, and have flashy effects. Next level, pick up Glitterdust, another flashy one.

[Blackhawk748]

Either way, LESSER Tiefling isn't Core. Lesser Tiefling comes from one of the Forgotten Realms books. I think it's the campaign setting.

Oh ya, i just instinctively use Lesser planetouched, i always forget their from FR.

[bjoern]

Human sorcerer. Youre level 3 so you only have level 1 spells until next level. Your spells should include grease, color spray/sleep, and expeditious retreat. Use a crossbow as your weapon. Use expedious retreat to to boost your land speed so you can move all over the battlefield and away from people with pointy sticks. Use grease to imobilize small groups of people , and then plink them with your crossbow to force a balance check due to grease and if they fail they fall down. Likewise use sleep/color spray to eliminate groups of people.
Next level you get 2nd level spells. This opens up a lot of goodies for your. Primarily alter self. Use alter self to gain different kinds of mobility, primarily flight. Then just fly over all your enemies heads and cast spells at them.
Other gems at level 2 are web, glitterdust, mirror image, invisibility, and see invisibility.

[Necromancy]

ARE you playing pathfinder?

[Pluto!]

"Core" is apparently a hard word to read.

If D&D 3.5:
Halfling or Goblin (in the core monster manual) Wizard with some crossclassed skills isn't bad. Small size goes a long way for stealth, and spells are the best way of doing anything.

If Pathfinder:
I don't know PF very well.

[DMVerdandi]

If you can get reserve feats, choose a sorcerer.
If you cannot, choose a Psion.

The reason I say to choose a Psion is because many of their powers continue being relevant all the way to 20th. Since you like the roguishness, I would suggest either picking a telepath or seer.

Starting at level 3 gets you 7 powers.
I would pick


Inertial armor
Detect Psionics
Energy ray
Psionic grease
Precognition,defensive
Cloud Mind
Call to mind

Feats
Psionic meditation
Extra power [Animal affinity]
Overchannel

[DrMotives]

I'm confused. You said PH races only, but someone is playing a kobold? Worse, a kobold in core only? (They're crazy powerful with the right books / web supplements, but in core they're intended as a joke race)

[Urpriest]

"Core" is apparently a hard word to read.


To be fair, Core doesn't actually mean anything. There are people who come on this forum and insist they're playing in a Core game, but they're using PHBII and half the Complete Series. Someone who actually wants help needs to use explicit book restrictions, not just an ambiguous and undefined word like Core.

[Hellborn_Blight]

If the Kobold Cleric switches, go human cleric. My first game I played a Samurai. It was fun to interact with people, but a depressing cry every time I rolled dice. Then I got forced to play a cleric by the DM because no one else wanted to. I thought cleric was basically going to be party "butt wiper" and that I'd be cleaning up after the rest of the party and missing the action. But clerics, as it turned out, are jacks-of-all-trades, non-skill related. They make better Paladins than Paladins do. They make a far more relevant and flexible Fighter than a Fighter does. They can even out offense a Barbarian when they need to. And they do have a decent retinue of blasting spells. They are not very MAD (Multi-Ability Dependant) because of their wide range of AMAZING buffs, and they wield magic power AND get heavy Armor. It is also hard to screw up a Cleric as well. There are some good prestige classes but if you went straight Cleric you can still put down a beating, buffs your allies, and pick their rears back up when they go down.

[Kezeal]

If you can get reserve feats, choose a sorcerer.
If you cannot, choose a Psion.

The reason I say to choose a Psion is because many of their powers continue being relevant all the way to 20th. Since you like the roguishness, I would suggest either picking a telepath or seer.

Starting at level 3 gets you 7 powers.
I would pick


Inertial armor
Detect Psionics
Energy ray
Psionic grease
Precognition,defensive
Cloud Mind
Call to mind

Feats
Psionic meditation
Extra power [Animal affinity]
Overchannel

From all the classes recommended here, Psion really seems the most fun to me.
Why not pick psychometabolism? It can change shape(turn into a bird and fly away when in danger, or into a mole and dig a tunnel for yourself for examples), drain psionic power/abilities, resurrect, manipulate your Str, Dex, or Con, restore an entire limb, restore level and ability score drain, fuse yourself with another being, and even create a clone!
It sounds like a great way to have fun and survive in the meantime. Also, I don't see any of your listed abilities in http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Psion_Discipline_Powers#SHAPER_.28METACREATIVI TY.29_DISCIPLINE_POWERS

EDIT: "Why not" question was meant as a question, as in I want to know why. I didn't mean to imply "I want this", but instead I'm saying that from my limited knowledge, it seems more powerful and flexible.

[DMVerdandi]

From all the classes recommended here, Psion really seems the most fun to me.
Why not pick psychometabolism? It can change shape(turn into a bird and fly away when in danger, or into a mole and dig a tunnel for yourself for examples), drain psionic power/abilities, resurrect, manipulate your Str, Dex, or Con, restore an entire limb, restore level and ability score drain, fuse yourself with another being, and even create a clone!
It sounds like a great way to have fun and survive in the meantime. Also, I don't see any of your listed abilities in http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Psion_Discipline_Powers#SHAPER_.28METACREATIVI TY.29_DISCIPLINE_POWERS

EDIT: "Why not" question was meant as a question, as in I want to know why. I didn't mean to imply "I want this", but instead I'm saying that from my limited knowledge, it seems more powerful and flexible.

Might just be personal preference/bias. Even though mind controlling has it's limits in 3.5, I still think telepaths are dope. Egotists are definitely top tier when looking at disciplines though.

Also, the DND wiki is a quick way to confuse yourself, and stumble into home-brew that you didn't know was home-brew. Use the D20 3.5 srd. (Just search for it). That one is official. DnD wiki is more home-brew than anything else.


Psion is a very cool class, and you probably won't be dissatisfied with it at all.

[Kezeal]

Might just be personal preference/bias. Even though mind controlling has it's limits in 3.5, I still think telepaths are dope. Egotists are definitely top tier when looking at disciplines though.

Also, the DND wiki is a quick way to confuse yourself, and stumble into home-brew that you didn't know was home-brew. Use the D20 3.5 srd. (Just search for it). That one is official. DnD wiki is more home-brew than anything else.


Psion is a very cool class, and you probably won't be dissatisfied with it at all.

Thank you! I guess my soulclass has been found, fulfilling the objective of this topic. Should I ask for further advice on the same topic or create a new one? I'd be interested for someone to give me a hand in creating an effective psion. Flexibility and fun would be the primary objectives.

[DMVerdandi]

Thank you! I guess my soulclass has been found, fulfilling the objective of this topic. Should I ask for further advice on the same topic or create a new one? I'd be interested for someone to give me a hand in creating an effective psion. Flexibility and fun would be the primary objectives.

nah, keep going in this thread.

are you looking for a 1-20 build?

[Blackhawk748]

Thank you! I guess my soulclass has been found, fulfilling the objective of this topic. Should I ask for further advice on the same topic or create a new one? I'd be interested for someone to give me a hand in creating an effective psion. Flexibility and fun would be the primary objectives.

Id make a new one, youd get more specific advice that way.

[Kezeal]

nah, keep going in this thread.

are you looking for a 1-20 build?


Id make a new one, youd get more specific advice that way.

I'll make a new one. Hope to see you in there shortly, DMVerdandi!
And yes, a 1-20 build.
Making a new thread now...

[atemu1234]

If it is a low power table, you could probably convince your DM to let you use Battle Sorcerer (Unearthed Arcana). Take a small hit to spells to gain a d8 hit die.

Even then, it's a pretty big hit.