Comparing Classes/Archetypes that can heal.

[Doc_Maynot]

I am going to be joining a game on roll20 soon, and I don't have the most knowledge about PF, but they asked for a class that can do a bit of healing. Now, my issues stems from not being sure what class to play as a healer and I could use a smidgeon of advice.
I was currently debating between White Mage Arcanist, Hospitalier Divine Guardian Paladin, and Warpriest of Sarenrae, but I know there are so many other options.
Think you could give this Doc a bit of advice?

[Barstro]

I haven't played enough to tell you how your classes rate. But I can say that I have played classes that have the ability to heal (Higher level Witch is nice) that are no better than a mundane UMDing a wand.

In fact, the current party I'm in has no official healer and we are doing just sorta fine with a few wands of CLW and some downtime between fights.

[Necromancy]

"Some healing"

Paladin, bard, or Druid would be fine.

If they are pissing through their hp all the time, may need a more dedicated healer. For that I'd say oracle

[Elderand]

Probably your best bet would be to play a vitalist for an actual competent in combat healer.

[atemu1234]

"Some healing"

Paladin, bard, or Druid would be fine.

If they are pissing through their hp all the time, may need a more dedicated healer. For that I'd say oracle

What tier is Oracle? It may be better just in general.

[Necromancy]

Elf favored class bonus and life mystery oracle = channel moar!

4d6 at 5th level

[Doc_Maynot]

Probably your best bet would be to play a vitalist for an actual competent in combat healer.

Trust me, I tried. I love that class so much...

[Dysart]

Here's my rating as I love Pathfinder and recently went through the exact same issue as you:

Max heal capacity in order:
1: Life Oracle
2: Cleric with Healing domain
3: Shaman with Life Spirit

So the above have different bonuses, if you want to do more than just be healer then I'd suggest Shaman as they get Hexes like Slumber (think Sleep spell but better) as well as possibly the most power debuff in the game (it's my first choice)

Intermediate heal capacity:
1: White Mage Arcanist
2: Druid
3: Warpriest

Arcanist is probably the best here unless you really like wildshape. Druid isn't as good a healer unless you find a way to spontaneously drop spells for Cures.

Low power healing:
1: Paladin
2: Inquisitor
3: Bard
4: Hunter
5: Alchemist

That's how'd I'd rank them in order, seperated into 3 categories just due to the vast difference in capacity to heal.

EDIT: I have no idea about the Psionic classes including Vitalist and have no experience so can't offer comparison to the above.

[Mithril Leaf]

Probably your best bet would be to play a vitalist for an actual competent in combat healer.

Yeah, the Vitalist is actually pretty decent all around, while also being pretty much the best healer.

[avr]

Healing HP is easy; a wand is more efficient than most class features. For the 101 other sorts of healing a cleric works best, but the top priority IME is (Lesser) Restoration. You can buy a few potions of this for emergencies but you really want someone who can cast it.

So; any divine caster plus alchemists/investigators can handle the role, tho' druids and paladins may have problems at higher levels.

I don't think psionics is good at healing ability damage, conditions or negative levels, but I'm no expert on the changes DSP brought in.

[Dysart]

Healing HP is easy; a wand is more efficient than most class features. For the 101 other sorts of healing a cleric works best, but the top priority IME is (Lesser) Restoration. You can buy a few potions of this for emergencies but you really want someone who can cast it.

So; any divine caster plus alchemists/investigators can handle the role, tho' druids and paladins may have problems at higher levels.

I don't think psionics is good at healing ability damage, conditions or negative levels, but I'm no expert on the changes DSP brought in.

I disagree about wands personally... but then again I've never resorted to wands as a primary healing source because that just seems lazy.

If Lesser Restoration is the highest priority then Shaman (Life Spirit) is the best healer as they can spontaneously cast it.

[Barstro]

I've never resorted to wands as a primary healing source because that just seems lazy.

I cannot disagree with that statement. I can, however, point out that going the "lazy" route has been better for my Inquisitor than wasting a spell-known slot and hoping to have a casting slot open when it is needed.

[Elderand]

I don't think psionics is good at healing ability damage, conditions or negative levels, but I'm no expert on the changes DSP brought in.

Cleanse spirit.

Vitalist remains the best healer. Not because it heals better, but because the way it administer said healing is better. And with a Life Leech Sadist Vitalist you can heal and hurt the enemy at the same time.

All the problems with in combat healing are solved.

Out of combat ? Use a wand to conserve PP for when they matters.

[Doc_Maynot]

So, it is sounding that an Elven Life Oracle or a Life Shaman would work out the best in the end?


I don't think psionics is good at healing ability damage, conditions or negative levels, but I'm no expert on the changes DSP brought in.
Vitalist's get a neat thing where they can manifest their usually personal only powers on allies. One of the things that makes them so good. But again, they are unfortunately not on the table. If they were I'd just be playing one of them

[Dysart]

So, it is sounding that an Elven Life Oracle or a Life Shaman would work out the best in the end?


Personally I'd go with the Shaman because everyone suggests that having healing slots left open after using spells to interract with foes is a problem. The Shaman doesn't have that problem as their 'debuff' abilities are Hexes which generally can affect each opponent once in most cases.
Also they get a familiar who can apply the cure spells on your behalf if needed.


I can, however, point out that going the "lazy" route has been better for my Inquisitor than wasting a spell-known slot and hoping to have a casting slot open when it is needed.

So what you're saying is that the class you're playing isn't being used as a healer? The you don't have a dedicated healer and are throwing money at it instead.
The only time I've played an Inquisitor I didn't need to use spells, I hit stuff with a Falchion on my turn and had the spells as back up for pre-battle buffing or healing in battle.

[RolkFlameraven]

Vitalist's get a neat thing where they can manifest their usually personal only powers on allies. One of the things that makes them so good. But again, they are unfortunately not on the table. If they were I'd just be playing one of them

That's a shame, DSP makes a better game if you use it as the base and add normal Pizo stuff after the fact :smallwink:

Speaking of DSP... is it just Psionics that you can't use or all of their stuff? I ask because if Path of War is open for use then the Silver Crane discipline gives in battle healing by hitting people. In my game right now between my use of those maneuvers in combat and wands after the fact we're doing just fine with no other healing.

[Doc_Maynot]

That's a shame, DSP makes a better game if you use it as the base and add normal Pizo stuff after the fact :smallwink:

Speaking of DSP... is it just Psionics that you can't use or all of their stuff? I ask because if Path of War is open for use then the Silver Crane discipline gives in battle healing by hitting people. In my game right now between my use of those maneuvers in combat and wands after the fact we're doing just fine with no other healing.

I'll have to check, an Empyreal Guardian Warlord/(Hospitalier Paladin or Life Orace)/Battle Templar sounds pretty good.

[PsyBomb]

What level are you starting from? Levels 3-10, an Oradin will probably be a good bet (check out Grrarg's guide)

[Doc_Maynot]

I am not sure...

[NightbringerGGZ]

Since nobody has suggested it yet, I'll suggest going with the Oradin Build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?257365-PF-Oradin-Mini-Guide-Or-How-to-be-a-Healbot-minus-the-bot) and link to Grarrg's mini-guide on the subject. My preferred build is Oracle 4 / Paladin 16 with this concept. In case you haven't seen this concept before, you pick up the feat Fey Foundling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fey-foundling) at first level, then use the Life Oracle's Life Link ability to basically provide Fast Healing 5 for your party. Swift Action Lay on Hands to heal yourself up, which gain +2 healing per die rolled thanks to Fey Foundling.

With the Paladin base you're able to also build a pretty effective character for combat, particularly against evil bosses. The linked guide provides feats, archetypes and gear to boost your healing abilities as well as your combat effectiveness.

[Barstro]

So what you're saying is that the class you're playing isn't being used as a healer? The you don't have a dedicated healer and are throwing money at it instead.
The only time I've played an Inquisitor I didn't need to use spells, I hit stuff with a Falchion on my turn and had the spells as back up for pre-battle buffing or healing in battle.

In a way I am saying that. The conclusion I was making, but left unsaid, is that I so far have found the Inquisitor's ability to heal to be less useful than it's ability to shoot arrows (the role I took in the group), and the ability to buff/debuff. I even consider "throwing money" to be a better investment than taking the CLW spell. As such, I consider the class to not be a healing class.

But, enough of the sidetrack, since this is not a class that OP is even considering in this thread.

[Kudaku]

So, it is sounding that an Elven Life Oracle or a Life Shaman would work out the best in the end?

I'm playing a character that basically combines these, Spirit Guide Life Oracle. When I suspect I need *heavy* healing I take the Life spirit for double channel pools keying off my main casting ability, otherwise I pick whatever's appropriate for the situation - Flame spirit if I want blasting, for example.

I really like the Spirit Guide archetype in general, it's a fun way to make the oracle a bit more flexible than the typical spontaneous caster.

[PsyBomb]

Since nobody has suggested it yet, I'll suggest going with the Oradin Build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?257365-PF-Oradin-Mini-Guide-Or-How-to-be-a-Healbot-minus-the-bot) and link to Grarrg's mini-guide on the subject. My preferred build is Oracle 4 / Paladin 16 with this concept. In case you haven't seen this concept before, you pick up the feat Fey Foundling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fey-foundling) at first level, then use the Life Oracle's Life Link ability to basically provide Fast Healing 5 for your party. Swift Action Lay on Hands to heal yourself up, which gain +2 healing per die rolled thanks to Fey Foundling.

With the Paladin base you're able to also build a pretty effective character for combat, particularly against evil bosses. The linked guide provides feats, archetypes and gear to boost your healing abilities as well as your combat effectiveness.

Thanks for the link, I lost it a while back (and I mentioned the build two posts above your own)

[NightbringerGGZ]

Thanks for the link, I lost it a while back (and I mentioned the build two posts above your own)

That'll teach me to read the full thread better =P

[grarrrg]

Here's my rating as I love Pathfinder and recently went through the exact same issue as you:

Max heal capacity in order:
1: Life Oracle
2: Cleric with Healing domain
3: Shaman with Life Spirit

So the above have different bonuses, if you want to do more than just be healer then I'd suggest Shaman as they get Hexes like Slumber (think Sleep spell but better) as well as possibly the most power debuff in the game (it's my first choice)

Intermediate heal capacity:
1: White Mage Arcanist
2: Druid
3: Warpriest

I'd slot Hedge Witch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch-archetypes/hedge-witch) w/Healing Patron (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/witch-patrons) in above Arcanist, she gets Spontaneous Cure spells and a fair amount of "non-HP healing" spells from her Patron.

Also, the Shaman's Life Link ability from Life Spirit is laughably worthless, it only kicks in when the target is below -5. Oracle Life Link is vastly more useful, if you can get the Shaman's to be houseruled to work like the Oracle then Shaman is back on the table, otherwise...eh. I am overall VERY underwhelmed with the Life Spirit options.


"Dedicated Healer" probably best off as Life Oracle or some form of Cleric.

As far as "healing when needed" builds go, Oradin, or a Spirit Guide (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/archetypes/paizo---oracle-archetypes/spirit-guide) Oracle with Life Mystery and NOT Life Spirit are both pretty solid (you grab the couple things you want from Life Mystery and then pick a "fighty" Spirit).

[Harmelyo]

Hi,
I may be coming a bit late on the subject but from experience a witch can be a serious Healbot from the start without trading too much for it or losing in flexibility. Depending on witch level you are starting from and on the setting it may even be incredibly flavorful, a witch in Ravenloft is something made of so much possible interaction, plot hook that it made me dizzy last time I had to think about it. I tried the Wrath of the Righteous module as well and without spoiling to much about it, it is also possible to build on the background and enjoy instantly a deeper character back story.

So now for the exact mechanism and what you will have to trade. I would like to offer you two different levels of commitment which are not exclusive. But roughly they all rely on a particular hex and a level 1 spell to do your bread and butter healing. After that it is all depending on if you are willing to also bring spell like raise dead and restoration.

Bread and Butter (Healbot 101):
Investment : light
- Hex: Healing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes/common-hexes/hex-healing-su)
- Spell: Hex vulnerability (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/h/hex-vulnerability)
So here you have an at will healing that work once per day per target... At first it is pretty nice as it save you a spell slot, for the first levels it is usually enough.
The issue is that as level pass it will quickly fall in effectiveness far behind anything that is of use. One measly cure light wound at level 4 won't do you much good. the trick is to use Hex vulnerability and ask kindly your friend to fail its will save.... and profit! For CL x Round, you can now spam healing Hex on him. At lvl 4, it means that for 1 lvl one spell, you can now cast 4 more cure light wound.
I find this is way more efficient that the Hedge Witch archetype spontaneous healing. As level pass you can ask your companions to pay for a bead of power so you can refresh the spell slot. It won't be long before it pays itself back and become far more efficient than a CLW wand.

Restoration + Restoration (I am a cleric you see?)
Investment : Heavy-ish
- Patron : Healing (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/witch-patrons)

So here, no real explanation needed, you just take the Healing patron and profit. You will, as level pass, get access to Lesser restoration, restoration and finally true resurrection. It is an heavy commitment because you are trading your one and only way (barring shenanigan like Samsaran: Mystic past life) of getting some sweeter spells. Witch are full spellcasters but their spell list is kinda lacking on several subjects. It is still a really good one but you will find that wizards have all the cool tricks and you only a few ones. You can still debuff way better than a wizard and make the enemy turn into nothing more than a shivering meatbag unable to hit even a kitten but you won't get to use the cool crowd control spells and other game changing spells.

Conclusion:
If you mix those two options with the already included healing spells (Heal anyone?!) of the Witch spell list, you will be a really good healer and at the price of only one spell, one hex and your patron. This will leave you with still a great amount of flexibility and option to build you very own witch.

[Spore]

I play a lot of support and classes capable of healing but healing almost never my main focus because it's not needed (unless you have a 11th level barbarian with an combat AC of 12 and Con of 26).

1) Oracle of Bones - begun as a necromancer I shifted to the Ancestors mystery pretty quickly because necromancy wasn't really in the portfolio of my goddess and asked for in the campaign, well frowned upon. I chose the healing option because of said barbarian. Primary supporter (buffs!), secondarily healer, thirdly blaster (combining divine power and Holy Ice Spears).

2) Cavalier/Paladin - begun as Cavalier I also used retraining rules because not only did our Evangelist Cleric struggle with healing (HIS main job is buffing, but he sacrifices channel dice for it) but we were also facing A LOT of evil outsiders. And dragons. We've pissed off like 5 evil dragons in 2 years of playtime. Mounted combat (spirited charge), melee combat, then healing (mainly because he heals so little that besides healing himself for swift actions is wasted actions in combat).

3) Oracle of Lore/Seer - after I switched from my somewhat cursed rogue, I wanted something to qualify for Ancient Lorekeeper but my DM wouldn't allow my Half-Elf go become one. So I settled for seer. His job is divination and just knowing stuff (40+ knowledge checks with revelations). So if the DM wanted to introduce a bit of information he would just let me roll for it. Unfortunately...he was reincarnated as Goblin. And since I can't heal our Dwarven barbarian in this campaign directly (who the hell designed superstition as a rage power), I just use Shield Other and heal myself inbetween summoning.