Did I miss something?

[Seerow]

I'm reading through the Divine Salient abilities for the first time since Deities and Demigods was released. I've just had basically no reason to do so. (Even now I really don't but I'm doing it anyway)

I came across this:


Divine Battle Mastery
Prerequisites
Fighter level 20th, Combat Reflexes, Int 13, Dex 13, Dodge, Combat Expertise, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, War domain.

Benefit
The deity can make an unlimited number of attacks of opportunity in one round. (The deity still can’t make more than one attack of opportunity against a single opponent in a round.) As a full-round action, the deity may make one melee attack at its full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. The deity does not incur any attacks of opportunity from this action.

I am trying to figure out what it is that makes this a divine salient ability. The first part of it is nice, but you can already get that much easier/cheaper from Improved Combat Reflexes (yes the epic feat is cheap. You are at minimum Outsider20/Fighter20, you have more epic feats than you can shake a stick at). The second part of it... I have read it 5 times but I can't see anything that makes it different from Whirlwind Attack. And it requires Whirlwind Attack!

Is this just a case of even when you become a god, Fighters can't have nice things, or am I missing something major here, or otherwise misreading what the text of this ability means? I would expect at minimum being able to Whirlwind as a Standard Action, or especially being able to whirlwind as an attack action... but it seems like they were very careful to leave the exact same restrictions in place here as for the feat that the Fighter grabbed back around level 6.

[Illven]

I'm reading through the Divine Salient abilities for the first time since Deities and Demigods was released. I've just had basically no reason to do so. (Even now I really don't but I'm doing it anyway)

I came across this:



I am trying to figure out what it is that makes this a divine salient ability. The first part of it is nice, but you can already get that much easier/cheaper from Improved Combat Reflexes (yes the epic feat is cheap. You are at minimum Outsider20/Fighter20, you have more epic feats than you can shake a stick at). The second part of it... I have read it 5 times but I can't see anything that makes it different from Whirlwind Attack. And it requires Whirlwind Attack!

Is this just a case of even when you become a god, Fighters can't have nice things, or am I missing something major here, or otherwise misreading what the text of this ability means? I would expect at minimum being able to Whirlwind as a Standard Action, or especially being able to whirlwind as an attack action... but it seems like they were very careful to leave the exact same restrictions in place here as for the feat that the Fighter grabbed back around level 6.

In 3.0, Whirlwind attack only allowed you to hit adjacent foes.

[Seerow]

In 3.0, Whirlwind attack only allowed you to hit adjacent foes.

That would do it. Still godawful for a Divine ability, but at least on par with the crappiness that is the Monk, Rogue, and Paladin abilities I have seen.

[Karl Aegis]

Full-round actions are much better than Full Attacks because you can split them between two turns using a standard action on both turns, allowing you to actually use a move action to close distance.

[Terazul]

Full-round actions are much better than Full Attacks because you can split them between two turns using a standard action on both turns, allowing you to actually use a move action to close distance.

What? That's a thing? Hold on...


Start/Complete Full-Round Action
The "start full-round action" standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can’t use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.

...So it is! Learn something new every day.

[Crake]

Full-round actions are much better than Full Attacks because you can split them between two turns using a standard action on both turns, allowing you to actually use a move action to close distance.

Couldn't you do that with a full attack by virtue of it being a full round action to use anyway?

[Karl Aegis]

Couldn't you do that with a full attack by virtue of it being a full round action to use anyway?

No, the rule doesn't apply to full attack, charge, run or withdraw.

[Coidzor]

Full-round actions are much better than Full Attacks because you can split them between two turns using a standard action on both turns, allowing you to actually use a move action to close distance.


What? That's a thing? Hold on...


Start/Complete Full-Round Action
The "start full-round action" standard action lets you start undertaking a full-round action, which you can complete in the following round by using another standard action. You can’t use this action to start or complete a full attack, charge, run, or withdraw.

...So it is! Learn something new every day.

Well, I'll be. I'd completely missed that.

Not sure what other uses you'd normally be able to put that to, though. I guess it lets heavy crossbow wielders be able to move away from creatures while still reloading for another shot?

[atemu1234]

Couldn't you do that with a full attack by virtue of it being a full round action to use anyway?

Yep. Read the post above yours.

[Bronk]

Full-round actions are much better than Full Attacks because you can split them between two turns using a standard action on both turns, allowing you to actually use a move action to close distance.

So, if this deity moved, then started his action in round one, wouldn't the action only take place in the second round? I'd imagine its opponents would have plenty of time to move out of the way...

[Flickerdart]

Yeah, the only benefit of splitting a full-round action is that you still get a move action in the turn that your full-round action actually fires. What the god could do is endlessly kite dumb opponents by running, starting a Battle Mastery attack, letting the mob surround him, completing the Battle Mastery attack, and then running away again, thus denying all of his enemies their action advantage and full attacks.

[Seerow]

Yeah, the only benefit of splitting a full-round action is that you still get a move action in the turn that your full-round action actually fires. What the god could do is endlessly kite dumb opponents by running, starting a Battle Mastery attack, letting the mob surround him, completing the Battle Mastery attack, and then running away again, thus denying all of his enemies their action advantage and full attacks.

Even then he's still only getting the Battle Mastery attack every 2nd round. So the mob of stupid enemies would likely keep their action economy advantage over him.

[Flickerdart]

Even then he's still only getting the Battle Mastery attack every 2nd round. So the mob of stupid enemies would likely keep their action economy advantage over him.
Yeah, they still get 2:1 on him (unless the deity has reach and scores AoOs on them when they chase after him, though they can also score AoOs on him as he leaves so it's more like 3:2 unless the deity can evade it) but it's much better than the 4:1 they'd get if he was standing still.