Roleplaying Help with Roleplaying Oath of the Ancients Paladin [Archive]

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Vargas

2015-03-25, 01:37 AM

Grand Warchief

2015-03-25, 06:12 AM

I've recently started a 5e Campaign with my group and we used to play 3.5 D&D, and i Chose to play a Half Elf Paladin, and i'm hoping for advice on how to roleplay this character and how the tennents of the oath affect how my character is supposed to act as i've never played a paladin before...

I'll give advice based on how I'm currently playing my OtA Paladin now. He's a variant human who grew up in a small village. His dad was an ex bard who, as his powers began to diminish, slowly started going crazy. (Since 5e is so much simpler than 3.5 I made all of his epic 3.5 powers slowly grow weaker until they matched the 5e standard. I thought it was an awesome idea XD) He had the entire town charmed and even dominated his wife. My young character loved to get out of the house and explore, enjoying the wonders of nature.

Eventually, his dad snapped and went on a killing spree. But instead of killing his son, he just locked him in the basement with no way out. He starved in there for 3 days before he passed out and wolf up in a strange chamber with a strange ancient light to it. An elderly sage spoke to him and told him that he was the reincarnation of an ancient hero and it was his destiny to find "the sword of evils bane" and banish the great evil back into the shadow. However, he was too young at the time and so his body and mind were locked away for x years (puts my character at age 20 in my game). Now he must go out and fulfill his destiny...

If you don't get the reference, I don't respect you (that is said to all people everywhere) lol

TL;DR I based him off an ancient hero and when he was ready, the hero approached him in a dream and made him take the oaths. Effectively "knighted him" and told him to be a beacon of good to the world. The big idea of the OtA is either deriving your powers from fey, or some sort of ancient power, like an old hero Or ancient god.

Hope that helps :)

Kd7sov

2015-03-25, 06:27 AM

The OoA paladin appeals to me on many levels. I've never gotten an opportunity to properly play one, but from the description in the book...

In short, the three oaths represent different emphases of the no-longer-required LG alignment. Oath of Devotion is pretty much the paladin from past editions; Oath of Vengeance is (a fairly extreme case of) Law, to the expense of Good if required; and Oath of Ancients is Good without requiring Law.

The focus of a Paladin of Ancients is joy. This paladin wants people to love life, and her particular enemies are the ones who endanger others' enjoyment. And because the paladin's own happiness is no less important than anyone else's (though also, hopefully, no more so), you're more likely to find this type of paladin enjoying a night on the town than the others.

Grand Warchief

2015-03-25, 06:27 AM

Daishain

2015-03-25, 07:41 AM

My take, bearing in mind that everyone's interpretation is and absolutely should be different.

Protect the innocent, the beautiful, the pure.

Support growth, life, light, and most of all, hope. In doing so, don't forget to delight in these joys yourself.

Where it proves necessary, eliminate the wicked. Not with the prejudice held by those who took the oath of vengeance or the dispassionate approach of the devotion paladins, but with a sense of regret that your foe made it necessary by choosing to diminish the light rather than partaking of it.

Edit for further clarification: I once heard someone say on these boards about the Oath of the Ancients to channel Santa Claus right up until someone gets on the super naughty list, then channel Optimus Prime. Not quite how I would handle it, but it does serve as a quick means to get the idea.

Grand Warchief

2015-03-25, 07:45 AM

Where it proves necessary, eliminate the wicked. Not with the prejudice held by those who took the oath of vengeance or the dispassionate approach of the devotion paladins, but with a sense of regret that your foe made it necessary by choosing to diminish the light rather than partaking of it.

This is beautiful. I know my Paladin uses the knock out rules because he doesn't like to kill. But yes, you should feel pity and remorse that the villains chose the darkness over the light. In your mind, their lives would have been so much better had they chosen the light.

sigfile

2015-03-25, 04:07 PM

Just don't forget to give your character room to grow. Paladins are easy to start fully-realized... which can get stale fast.

For example, your Oath of the Ancients paladin might experience his calling to service very late in life, after he's lost most of the joy that day to day living can bring. As the campaign progresses he rediscovers joy and becomes the embodiment of hope and light that a paladin should be.

It's all about the journey, after all.

Mjolnirbear

2015-03-25, 09:49 PM

My OotA pally is a halfling entertainer. He actually is going to speak his oath next session.

For me, the oath isn't as much about protecting life (though of course he would) but about protecting what makes life worth living.

Life, love, joy, beauty, family, art, music...even independence, freedom or selfsufficiency.

So far it hasn't come into play. I'm honestly not sure how it will turn out. Right now I'm thinking a generic "paladin protects the good" but fighting with special vehemence when, say, saving a beautiful glade, fighting ogres despoiling the mountain, or some other worthy action. I see him laughing in battle for the joy of exercising his skill or testing himself in worthy combat. I see him telling jokes and stories or singing songs to protect the morale of his companions.

He is not the stern, awful lawful paladin whose face would break if he smiled. He enjoys a well-crafted insult or a well-spun tale, he'll joke about situations, play with kids, forgive easily and often and helps out when needed.

To tell the truth, this paladin is just about my most favourite character I've ever played. It's about the only thing keeping me sane not having a full casting progression (anytime I've played any character it's a full caster. Always)

Magic Myrmidon

2015-03-25, 10:23 PM

This is all great advice (especially for a good paladin), but after reading the short blurb at the beginning of the paladin page for the OotA paladin (with the elf stabbing in the moonlight), I honestly got a really twisted vibe from that oath. "Uphold the light, nurture the light, protect your light" etc. It almost strikes me as a cultish paladin (almost the Fire lady out of Game of Thrones). "The light" can be searing, hot, and unforgiving. You can take great pleasure in burning away all that opposes you and your dogma, all in the name of your oath.

I got a very chaotic vibe from it, especially even chaotic neutral or chaotic evil. That being said, I really, really like the new oaths, because they allow for this sort of interpretation, and don't tie the paladin down to being a boring stick in the mud.

JAL_1138

2015-03-25, 10:34 PM

You don't necessarily give a rat's a** about being noble or honorable--not that you don't see value in them, but you aren't required to adhere to them. You can be a sneaky underhanded SOB if you need to. You can lie through your teeth if you need to. You can be Robin Hood instead of Superman. You can fight a guerrilla war, as long as you don't become a monster in the process. That's the important part. Never too far. The ends only justify the means up until the point you start treating people like things.

You're a champion of life, not of fluffy cloud heaven. In all its joys and beauty and wild creativity, in its idiosyncrasies and bull-headedness. A champion of people and the good in them, not of a set of rules for how they ought to behave.

Think of Granny Weatherwax's, Nanny Ogg's, or Death's worldview from Discworld.

This conversation between Death and Susan sums up one way to play it quite nicely.

Death: You may as well know this. Down in the deepest kingdom of the sea, where there is no light, there lives a type of creature with no brain, no eyes and no mouth. It does nothing but live and put forth petals of perfect crimson where none are there to see. It is nothing except a tiny yes in the night. And yet... it has enemies that bear it a vicious, unbending malice, who wish not only for its tiny life to be over but also that it had never existed. Are you with me so far?

Susan: Well, yes, but —

Death: Good. Now, imagine what they think of humanity.

Susan: All right. I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need ... fantasies to make life bearable.

Death: No. Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the falling angel meet the rising ape.

Susan: Tooth fairies? Hogfathers?

Death: Yes. As practice. You have to start out learning to believe the little lies.
Susan: So we can believe the big ones?

Death: Yes. Justice. Duty. Mercy. That sort of thing.

Susan: They're not the same at all!

Death: Really? Then take the universe and grind it down to the finest powder and sieve it through the finest sieve and then show me one atom of justice, one molecule of mercy. And yet you act, like there was some sort of rightness in the universe by which it may be judged.

Susan: Yes. But people have got to believe that, or what's the point?

Death: My point exactly.

Vargas

2015-03-26, 02:08 AM

I'll give advice based on how I'm currently playing my OtA Paladin now. He's a variant human who grew up in a small village. His dad was an ex bard who, as his powers began to diminish, slowly started going crazy. (Since 5e is so much simpler than 3.5 I made all of his epic 3.5 powers slowly grow weaker until they matched the 5e standard. I thought it was an awesome idea XD) He had the entire town charmed and even dominated his wife. My young character loved to get out of the house and explore, enjoying the wonders of nature.

Eventually, his dad snapped and went on a killing spree. But instead of killing his son, he just locked him in the basement with no way out. He starved in there for 3 days before he passed out and wolf up in a strange chamber with a strange ancient light to it. An elderly sage spoke to him and told him that he was the reincarnation of an ancient hero and it was his destiny to find "the sword of evils bane" and banish the great evil back into the shadow. However, he was too young at the time and so his body and mind were locked away for x years (puts my character at age 20 in my game). Now he must go out and fulfill his destiny...

If you don't get the reference, I don't respect you (that is said to all people everywhere) lol

TL;DR I based him off an ancient hero and when he was ready, the hero approached him in a dream and made him take the oaths. Effectively "knighted him" and told him to be a beacon of good to the world. The big idea of the OtA is either deriving your powers from fey, or some sort of ancient power, like an old hero Or ancient god.

Hope that helps :)

Thats a very clear reference to Link and the master sword, and all the advice you guys have given me is very good

zeek0

2015-03-26, 07:05 AM

My OotA paladin has the entertainer background. He was free-wheeling and lighthearted until some events in the course of the story took place. He saw good and evil, and he knew what side he wished to be on. As such, he remembered the oath that was taken by a hero in the ancient stories, and he himself took that oath (imagine a hero today taking the Green Lantern oath, or that of Zorro). He aligns himself with enjoyment, but also with a kind of honor. For example, he cannot abide a shadow-war, and will bring it to light even if it is not beneficial immediately.

Oh, and he's a dexterity paladin. Great fun.

I based a good bit of my character on a post that I found here. I don't remember where I got it from, but here is the text anyhow:
If being a dwarf is about doing your duty ESPECIALLY if it makes you miserable and an elf is the exact opposite of a dwarf, and the Oath of the Ancients kind of represents an elfier sort of paladin... well, maybe you can sort of see where I'm going with this.

Think less Torm and more Lliira.0

Originally Posted by Socko525
So I'm currently playing an Oath of the Ancients Paladin, and I'd love some input on roleplaying the various tenants/oath overall. How exactly do you envision (or how have you been if you're playing one as well) the "light" aspects of the various tenants? Do you separate yourself from the stereotypical devotion paladin? How have you (if at all) been incorporating the chaotic nature this Oath seems to have surrounding it?
"The light" is good stuff and "the darkness" is bad stuff.

What, is that still unclear? Well... good stuff is stuff that sentient beings like and bad stuff is stuff that sentient beings dislike. In a case where someone likes something and someone else dislikes it, then it's good for the former and bad for the latter. Try to find an option that's good for everyone involved. But if there's no other way available to stop someone from worsening the lives of others, siding against that individual is generally okay. Are you writing this down?

Because if you are, then it might be better for you to ignore it. The Oath of the Ancients isn't very specific, and that doesn't seem to be an accident. A formal code of behavior can be deliberately twisted or even inadvertently misunderstood, and besides, this isn't a calling to be forced on anyone; so it's not a tool to make someone do good even if that person has no interest in doing good. More like a list of handy reminders of how good action breaks down. These aren't orders you'd give to an amoral automaton to get it to behave well; they're not for someone who doesn't already understand what it means to be a good person. Do you think it's possible to program goodness into someone with a few bullet points? My word.

So, yeah, fairly non-lawful if not exactly chaotic. Like... "Be good. What does the word 'good' mean? Well, here are a bunch of examples. If you see the obvious pattern, well, there ya go. If not, well, I'm not sure how to formally specify the relevant thing that all of that stuff has in common. It's probably not something you're cut out for if you don't already have an intuitive grasp of it."

Originally Posted by Socko525
I get a little confused as well when reading the intro description for what's clearly the OotA paladin, as this character almost sounds maniacal:

"Silver hair shining in a shaft of light that seems to illuminate only him, an elf laughs with exultation. His spear flashes like his eyes as he jabs again and again at a twisted giant, until at last his light overcomes its hideous darkness"

And then later you have:
"Are you a glorious champion of the light, cherishing everything beautiful that stands against the shadow, a knight whose oath descends from traditions older than many of the gods?"

So I feel like there's some mixed signals there.
I'm confused by your confusion. Which, um, signals do you think are mixed?

Like, the whole "fighting for peace" thing has been dubious since forever, and certainly one can question whether violence is ever justified or compatible with goodness. But the implicit assumption in D&D has pretty much always been that yeah, sometimes it is; or at least, it is in a world where evil is real, active, and taking Chaotic Evil 101. That still leaves plenty of questions about when violence is appropriate and what measures should be taken to prevent it, but the game actively includes designated "good guys" who specialize in combat, based on the idea that violence against some foes can be right and maybe even necessary. Paladins are basically supposed to be righteous warriors who do things like venture into lawless lands to serve as judge, jury, and executioner against threats to civilization.

So, if you can accept the idea that civilization even needs people like that, or at least that going out and stabbing other beings repeatedly can be a good thing to do, under the right circumstances... is there any further difficulty posed by the prospect of someone enjoying it?

Because, um... fun isn't bad. Fun is good. Like, a good ruler can certainly stop people from having fun at the expense of others, but someone who reduces everyone's fun in favor of "moral behavior" is not a good ruler. Doing the right thing shouldn't be unpleasant. It should be pleasant. No, seriously, do you think that it's appropriate for selfishness to be rewarding and for helping others to be tortuous? Like, if you do think that "being evil is easy", that your happiness is for some reason -- What reason?! -- inversely proportional to the happiness of those around you, why the hell wouldn't you regard that state of affairs as a problem to be solved?! I mean, look, Ilmater is... as nice as it's possible for a god of suffering to be, probably, but some of the stuff that he says is so messed up. You shouldn't be eager to suffer for others.Willing, maybe, in some exceptional cases, but man.

Like, I understand the potential danger that if you enjoy hurting others, then you're going to be tempted to look for reasons to think that hurting someone is a good thing. For that matter I also understand the potential danger of being overly dismissive of the possibility that something you'd like to do will cause harm to someone else or even yourself as an unwanted side effect, and I'm not denying that people are in fact sometimes biased in that regard. The desire for pleasure is one of the most basic drives there is and maybe even accounts for the majority of all rationalization.

But if you say on that basis that the anti-fun side of an argument should be assumed correct, that someone saying that something you like to do does more harm than good is probably right, then beyond endorsing opposition to alcohol consumption, fornication, gambling, rock and roll, dancing, and playing Dungeons & Dragons -- to name just a few things -- you're, um, also endorsing the view that doing things for entertainment is a bad idea in general, because we're just too likely to ignore or minimize the drawbacks of anything we do for that reason. Trying to fight one bias with a counter-bias is a perilous undertaking, and it's worth noting that people tend to rationalize in favor of any course of action they've already decided on for any reason, and more generally in favor of retaining whatever beliefs they already have. There is cause for general skepticism and caution, and that includes skepticism about and caution towards being extremely skeptical and/or cautious about one possibility but not the alternatives. And if we're to be on the lookout for motivated reasoning, then perhaps we should consider the possibility that those arguing in favor of restrictions on behavior are driven by an unacknowledged craving for power and control over others.

But if you say that you shouldn't enjoy fighting someone who you're fighting for a good reason and not for fun, then that's not even coming out against doing something for fun, that's coming out against fun itself. In one particular case, but still. If you wanna talk about the possible long-term psychological consequences of one's attitude, then it's worth noting that being grim about stuff is liable to turn someone bitter, temperamental, or just plain burnt out. "If you allow the light to die in your own heart, you can’t preserve it in the world." Yes, violence is an unfortunate necessity at best. No, that doesn't mean that you can't enjoy it.

In general, you shouldn't feel that you need to feel unhappy about bad stuff, which is good, because you're going to spend a lot of time dealing with bad stuff, attempting to make it better. Instead, feel good about how things can be made better. Show others that you can still be happy even if things aren't so great right now. Avoid temptations to act against the welfare of others by enjoying helping them. "Be a glorious beacon for all who live in despair. Let the light of your joy and courage shine forth in all your deeds." You think you're miserable because your life sucks? Wrong, your life sucks because you're miserable. You should appreciate the good things that you do have, and you ought to work to solve problems, not sulk about them. Let me show you how. Low odds of success are no good reason not to try your best, because not trying your best just lowers the odds even further, and what good is that?

Sacrificing your own happiness isn't a good thing, any more than sacrificing anyone else's happiness is a good thing. Sacrificing anyone's happiness is a bad thing. It might be worth it -- sometimes bad things are worth it -- but it's bad as an end in itself. Being happy is good... I shouldn't even have to say that; how twisted around does someone have to be not to think that already, what do you even think is good if being happy isn't good?

miburo

2015-03-26, 01:30 PM

Lots of good advice here already, so I'll try not to duplicate. To me, Devotion is about fighting Evil (with justice and honor), Vengeance is about fighting Evil (by any means necessary), and Ancients is about, well, Fighting for Good, not just fighting against Evil. You fight the enemies of Good when you need to, but never at the cost of helping out Good. And by the way, enjoy all the beautiful things about life, because living life is Good too =).

My Ancients Paladin (Human w/ Outlander Background) is a backwoodsy, rustically charming guy--originally a simple woodsman, and trained as a paladin by a Seelie Fey. He is best described as someone who fights for good while having a good time. Back in town he loves his wine and his women, but on the road he is an unflinching champion of good, fighting against the enemies of the Light whoever and wherever they may be. But if he has to choose between helping someone in need over fighting evil, he will always pick helping the person in need. (Technically he is a follower of Lathander, whose credo fits the oath pretty well, but at in the PHB the Oath of Ancients can be sworn against a cause for more broad or ancient than deities)

Rad Mage

2015-03-26, 01:53 PM

A friend of mine had a pretty good analogy.

Ancients is the shepherd. Nurturing the flock and caring for their needs.

Devotion is the sheep dog. Protecting the flock and keeping a careful eye out for danger.

Vengeance is the hunter. Tracking the wolf to its den and slaying the beasts.

Grand Warchief

2015-03-26, 02:29 PM