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View Full Version : Looking for a good build for an Evil campaign



Lord Randomcat
2015-03-25, 11:09 PM
Hey, GITP. Long time reader but first time poster, so if I'm screwing up by posting here first, let me know. With that said...

My house DM is a bit of a nut when it comes to some of his games. By this, I mean he's willing to let his players run wild with character races; as long as he likes what you have in mind, he'll give a thumbs up most of the time. In some games, he's far more tame (case in point: one of our current games, the strongest race present is a Drow, and she's not the leading lady), but with ones like this Evil campaign he's setting up, sky's the limit. So, I want to take advantage of it to have a potent, lasting, and fun character.

He has approved me to play a Chaotic Neutral (not Chaotic Stupid or a mercenary) Half-Air Elemental Draconic Flind Gnoll. Sources in order are Manual of the Planes (pg. 189), Races of the Dragon (pg. 74), and Monster Manual III (pg. 62). I have twelve class levels to play with outside of my racial hit dice, and many 3e and 3.5 books at my fingertips from which to draw from, but I can't for the life of me decide on a build. Given the stats alone, a melee character makes the most sense, but I still am finding it ridiculously hard to narrow it down. That said, I'm also not fixated on playing a melee character, nor may there necessarily be a dire need for one in this party.

One last thing. My house DM has a rule on multiclassing and prestige classes. Players can multiclass starting at 6th level, and enter prestige classes at 11th level, although he is willing to make exceptions.

Addendum: As I previously forgot to mention this, my DM is waiving LA of up to +4 as long as he approves it, which he already has approved the above race/template setup. Another insanity-emphasizing note is that he has given us additional feats to do with as we please, as long as we meet the prereqs. Twelve, to be specific.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2015-03-26, 12:28 AM
Are you creating a 20th level character, or are you starting at a lower level and deciding what to take up to 20th?

Why half air elemental? Each of the half elementals are +3 LA according to the update booklet (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a), and it doesn't really give you anything mechanically appealing for such a high cost. Compare those two templates to Half-Goristro (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a), which for the same level adjustment gives you a size increase for total stat adjustments of Str +16, Dex -2, Con +16, +7 natural armor, two slam attacks which deal damage as two-handed weapons, decent spell-like abilities, resistances, immunities, DR, SR, and it makes you an Outsider so it gives you more skill points for your racial HD.

What did you have in mind when selecting Half-Air Elemental Draconic Flind, as far as what the character has done and what the character can do? What should he be good at besides hurting things in melee? What you've picked has Str +8, Dex +4, Con +8, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4, +4 natural armor, two claw attacks, weapon familiarity with the flindbar, some air-themed spell-like abilities none of which are particularly useful especially at 20th level, and an assortment of other mediocre benefits. If you want him to just do melee, you would be better off with more class levels. If you want him to do more than melee, you don't have very many class levels to work with, and it really looks like you'll end up trying to make him do too many things and he won't be very good at any of them.

My advice would be to swap your templates out and take Half-Crystal-Dragon instead, Crystal Dragons are in MM2, they have the air subtype and they tend to be Chaotic Neutral aligned. Per Races of the Dragon p70, a Half-Crystal-Dragon gets a cone of light for their breath attack and is immune to cold damage. You can take the feat Dragon Breath in Races of the Dragon to use your half-dragon breath attack every 1d4 rounds instead of just 1/day. Get a Wand of Blinding Breath (Spell Compendium), it's still a swift action to activate per Rules Compendium, and it makes it so any creatures that fail their reflex save against your breath attack will be permanently blinded. The spell says it only affects lightning and fire breath attacks, but the Crystal Dragon's breath attack is normally capable of blinding opponents on its own, so it should still work. That will give you a lower level adjustment, with ability scores of Str +14, Dex +2, Con +6, Int +2, Cha +2, and +6 natural armor, which is a significantly better array for a primary melee character.

See if you'll be allowed to buy off your level adjustment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm). You can gradually gain Half-Dragon (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a), it still counts as level adjustment and you don't have to take those levels in uninterrupted succession (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a), so you could buy it off as you gain it. You would start as a Humanoid 2/ LA +2 Flind, gain six class levels (ECL 10), buy off one point of LA, gain three more class levels (ECL 12), buy off your last point of LA, gain Half-Dragon 1, gain three more class levels (ECL 15), buy off that point of LA, gain Half-Dragon 2, gain three more class levels (ECL 18), buy off that point of LA, gain Half-Dragon 3, and then three more class levels after that (ECL 21) you'll be able to buy that one off. If you start out at 20th level you'll be a Dragon (Augmented Humanoid) 2/ [class levels] 15/ Half-Dragon +1 LA/ [class levels] 2. At ECL 20 you'll have two racial HD and only a +1 LA, with seventeen levels in classes and prestige classes.

Lorddenorstrus
2015-03-26, 12:52 AM
I'm not sure about the choice of race and so.. but I have been hoping for our group to run an Evil campaign for awhile.. Disciple of Dispatar Crit fisher... so much more nasty than my tame good crit fisher with a weaker crit range..

Serious note though, I would just start looking at the evil alignment required prestige classes. Some of them can be super fun to mess with in builds. (Im not sure on his weird prestige class requirement.. lvl 11?? I mean a lot of prestige classes have absolutely JUNK requirements like Dodge.. or a +2 to X save feat and it almost kills me to get them as pre-reqs. The prestige classes don't need other things tossed onto them to make them less likely to be taken. Also that lvl 11 Req kills multiple build paths. Like Unarmed Sword Sage, Fist of the Forest, Bear Warrior into War Shaper build i'm currently doing on one of my goofy characters.)

Lord Randomcat
2015-03-26, 01:03 AM
Right... I completely forgot to clarify something that further emphasizes my DM's craziness: level adjustment of up to +4 is waived as long as he approves the race, ergo no LA buyoff is necessary. I will add that to my OP for future posters.

Looking at the Half-Goristo, that is a frighteningly enticing template, but knowing my DM, that would push even his buttons and make him seriously contemplate if allowing it is a good idea... I will bookmark that one for future usage, though, because holy god yes. As for the Half-Crystal Dragon, while I was aware that I could gradually take half-dragon, the crystal dragon itself must have slipped my mind. Something to consider, and something that may very well be allowed, but I currently half a half-dragon in the works for another game, and I have issues with playing characters of like race/template setups back to back.

For the level question, neither. I've been told to create this character with twelve class levels under the somewhat draconian multi/prestige class restriction, which kills me, because I could probably make something far better if there was no restriction to begin with.

Edit: Amended the OP.

Karl Aegis
2015-03-26, 02:06 AM
Basically, you take a race without racial hit dice and play a full caster like cleric, druid, or wizard, turn into Godzilla and smash Tokyo. I recommend druid because it actually is more than 6 levels long. The multiclassing rules in place make the vast majority of builds unplayable, leaving you with only full casters, invocation users, and odd classes that benefit from being single classed like Dragon Shaman, Totemist, Incarnate, Binder/Knight of the Sacred Seal, Shadowcaster, Lurk, Sohei/Bear Warrior, Ectopic Ally Divine Mind, etc.You can probably attempt to do something with a Tenebrous Apostate with some racial hit dice if your really wanted to, but most builds will generally be weaker than a core full caster.

PaucaTerrorem
2015-03-26, 02:10 AM
Just go cleric. Cleric always wins. PrC as you see fit. Cleric always wins.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2015-03-26, 11:08 AM
Right... I completely forgot to clarify something that further emphasizes my DM's craziness: level adjustment of up to +4 is waived as long as he approves the race, ergo no LA buyoff is necessary. I will add that to my OP for future posters.

Looking at the Half-Goristo, that is a frighteningly enticing template, but knowing my DM, that would push even his buttons and make him seriously contemplate if allowing it is a good idea... I will bookmark that one for future usage, though, because holy god yes. As for the Half-Crystal Dragon, while I was aware that I could gradually take half-dragon, the crystal dragon itself must have slipped my mind. Something to consider, and something that may very well be allowed, but I currently half a half-dragon in the works for another game, and I have issues with playing characters of like race/template setups back to back.

For the level question, neither. I've been told to create this character with twelve class levels under the somewhat draconian multi/prestige class restriction, which kills me, because I could probably make something far better if there was no restriction to begin with.

Edit: Amended the OP.

So, Half-Air Elemental is +3 LA, Draconic is +1 LA, and Flind is +2 LA and 2 racial HD. That's a total of +6 LA and 2 racial HD, but you said only a +4 LA is being waived. The 3.5 update booklet (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a) I linked earlier is where you find the Half-Elementals' +3 LA.

For your build, consider just taking Warblade and sticking with that for your entire career. Your two racial hit dice will increase your initiator level by one, so you'll have access to higher level maneuvers and stances one class level earlier (but one character level later). Here's a generic handbook for making and playing a Warblade (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8715.0), just make sure you get Iron Heart Surge.

Lord Randomcat
2015-03-26, 03:35 PM
So, Half-Air Elemental is +3 LA, Draconic is +1 LA, and Flind is +2 LA and 2 racial HD. That's a total of +6 LA and 2 racial HD, but you said only a +4 LA is being waived. The 3.5 update booklet (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a) I linked earlier is where you find the Half-Elementals' +3 LA.

For your build, consider just taking Warblade and sticking with that for your entire career. Your two racial hit dice will increase your initiator level by one, so you'll have access to higher level maneuvers and stances one class level earlier (but one character level later). Here's a generic handbook for making and playing a Warblade (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8715.0), just make sure you get Iron Heart Surge.
I miscalculated the, which is what happens when I do these things late at night, although I was aware of the racial HD. Wonder if my DM did, too, or if he's letting it go to see what happens.

Warblade sounds good, in any event. I'm familiar with what all they can do, both in maneuvers and in class abilities. I'll poke around that handbook and see if that's what I ought to go with. Thanks in advance.