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View Full Version : how to be formerly undead? Character help.



Mr.Sandman
2015-03-26, 06:26 AM
Greetings Playground, I once again come before you pleading assistance. In a Carrion Crown game on the paizo forums I put forth the following background, spoilered, I hope, for length.
Eliza doesn't really remember anything until around the age of six. Her mothers tell her that she must have been orphaned, or ran away, as she was living on the streets when they found her, but all she can remember is a series of half heard whispers when she closes her eyes. But despite that, she is a happy young woman, blending the magic taught to her by one mother with the rigorous exercise and combat training of the other. She remembers Mr. Lorrimor, vaguely, from the first few years of her life. Her mothers had called on him to help her with the whispers, and he had called her 'fascinating', which she had taken as a compliment, although she didn't know what it meant at the time, and still doesn't know why he said it. Her mothers where reluctant to let her go when a message came, announcing his death, but it had been sent to her specifically, so they eventually relented. As her carriage approaches Rivengro, she is unaware that this trip would be the one that changes her entire life, by revealing its past secrets...

And said secrets could return one of the greatest darknesses in existence to this world.
Thirteen years ago a Paladin and a Witch met by chance, the witch searching for her cousin who had run away after a fight with her parents, and the paladin investigating a rash of disappearing orphans in the area. Through their research they discovered that similar things had been happening for hundreds of years, all over Ustalav. They eventually catch wind of an ancient lich, called the Daughter of Nightmares, who acts as a recruiter for the shadowy Whispering Way. The foul creature disguises herself as a young girl, no more than the age of six, and befriends the children of the streets before taking them 'somewhere safe' to be inducted into the dark organization themselves.
Reluctantly using a gnomish ally as bait, the two snuck into the lich's hideout to find her phylectory, but what they found with it shook them to their souls. The lich wasn't just pretending to be a six year old girl, she was one. Her parents had been followers of the Whispering Way themselves and, when she had been caught in the crossfire between their sect and a group of Paladins, they had turned the child into a Lich, and offered her to their dark masters for the rest of her incredibly long existence. She had been placed under a Gentle Repose spell for disguise, and forced to locate children to induct into the evil cult for eight hundred years, commanded by powerful magic compulsions and the need of a child to obey their parents wishes.
Tears in their eyes, the two women turned to leave with the dark item, only to be stopped by two figures blocking the doorway. The Daughter of Nightmares looked at them, their gnomish friend held dead in one hand, and pleaded for their forgiveness before brutally attacking. They defeated her, with difficulty, and with her last breath the girl begged them to destroy the phylectory before it could begin to regenerate her, just starting the dark cycle all over again, and they complied.
Grief overcame them for the terrible tragedy that had befallen the once innocent girl, and they begged and used up the influence they had gained with the church of Pharisma to give her a second chance. She was raised, her memories of the past wiped clean, and adopted by the her slayers and saviors. This is the true history of Eliza Valderas, and one her mothers hope she will never experience again.

The DM said he liked the premise of it, but found it unbelievable that she had been such a powerful creature, lich, and that high level magics were needed to revive her, raise dead in this case, lowered from Resurrection with the addition of the gentle repose bit.
I am more than willing to negotiate on the type of undead, but being undead and then brought back is core to the concept, and I can't find any spell lower than Raise Dead except Reincarnate, which doesn't really fit what I'm after. So, I come to you. Is there anyway to bring back a body that has been technically dead for 800 years thats lower 4th or lower? Any way someone could survive for 800 years in the same form, but not show it once its reversed? I'm not even going to bother saying what spell reversed her memories, as they are all probably way too high as well. Any ideas you guys have would be great.

Zyzzyva
2015-03-26, 06:49 AM
Well, my first thought is "just a generic skelly": they can last for frickin' ever, and if you resurrect someone presumably they always come back as the same person (kinda the whole point); so 800 years, if I was DMing it, wouldn't make a difference. (Why someone would see a generic skeleton warrior and resurrect them, I don't know. Plot hook!)

Wacky89
2015-03-26, 06:55 AM
unless gentle repose was cast on your character every time it's duration is up. There is no way I can think of except True Ressurection. Since Gentle Repose doesnt do anything after 800 years, it preserves the body in the condition it was. So it's still a 800 year old body, way too old for raise dead and resurection.
But you could have some1 use a Scrolls of Uncertain Provenance (MIC p.183), it has alot of drawbacks. But it only cost 8k gp.

satorian
2015-03-26, 07:28 AM
Since it's just backstory, I'd just ask your DM to handwave it by saying a god did it. I'd do it something like your undead self wanders into an ancient shrine of a god of life and redemption. The power of the place was such that undead are immediately returned to life there. Depending on whether I wanted the location to be a plot hook, I'd either say it was destroyed after you left, or it's still there and you don't know where it is.

I'd also say that you were a mindless undead. There are too many ways the greater undeads, if redeemed, might be expecting to know things/remember things/be able to do things a new character shouldn't.

"A god did it" -- for when "a wizard did it" just doesn't cut it.

Bronk
2015-03-26, 08:04 AM
I think the story would have to be adjusted a bit for this to work within the rules (assuming 3.5).

First of all, the girl wouldn't have been innocent, because for the average lich (putting aside archliches and baelnorns) has to transform themselves willingly, and one of the steps is to willingly do something unspeakably evil. You generally have to be a spellcaster of some kind too.

The 800 year thing would normally be a problem for anyone who doesn't have godly or epic power too, since the time limit for bringing someone back from the dead is a decade per caster level, but maybe you can get around it because the phylactery was just destroyed, so the soul hasn't been merging with the afterlife all this time.

There is the revivify spell, or the psionic revivify power, last breath spells etc., that all work within one last round of death. Here's the thing... nowhere else in the rules (that I know of) does it say how long a soul hangs around after death before heading off to the afterlife, but these spells indicate that it's one round.

So here's my suggestions:

First, this girl's parents were part of a cult who brought their children up evil, taught them at least one level of arcane magic at a very young age, and the girl was groomed to become a lich at a young age. Who knows, maybe the cult did this all the time, making wee liches that they could control, doing all the evil things you wanted. Heck, maybe they need new ones when the old ones get more powerful, maybe there are actually a whole bunch of them at once, and maybe the cult is actually controlled by one of them!

Second, these two witches or whatever ran across this one child lich, defeated it, destroyed the phylactery, and brought the child back to life.

A: The body had the 'gentle repose' spell on it nonstop for however long, and the soul was sticking around for it's one round, so they could have used the revivify spell (handwaving argument subject to DM approval) to stick the soul back in there. Then they, i don't know, had someone use modify memory or a more powerful 'mind rape' spell to wipe everything out. Oh, or maybe they defeated the lich by caving it's head in, and somehow that meant that the girl came alive without a lot of her memories, and was 'good' (good aligned) now.

B: They did actually use raise dead or resurrection spells and that caused a bunch of traumatic level loss. Maybe they drained her levels after she was brought back to life? She was an 800 year old lich after all. Then they used the mindrape spell or the helm of opposite alignment to turn her good. Oh, or maybe they had her bitten by a werebear?

Have you considered having her not be 800 years old? Maybe the witches caught up with the lich and defeated her after a relatively short time, so that the magics to bring her back and to modify her memory didn't have to be such high level. If there were other wee liches running around, that would give your DM some additional plot hooks...