[3.5] which spell or what level would you give this spell

[Raezeman]

When i was DMing the other day, i used a spell effect that i'm not sure whether or not it is an actual spell that i read somewhere sometime or not at all. The effect is something in the line of:

While the spell is active, once only when the target of this spell would be reduced below 1 by hitpoint damage it is instead brought down to exactly one.

So the question: is there an actual spell like this. If yes: which one (source please). If no: what level, duration and range would you give this? I would give it minutes per level.

Cheers,
Raezeman

[bjoern]

When i was DMing the other day, i used a spell effect that i'm not sure whether or not it is an actual spell that i read somewhere sometime or not at all. The effect is something in the line of:

While the spell is active, once only when the target of this spell would be reduced below 1 by hitpoint damage it is instead brought down to exactly one.

So the question: is there an actual spell like this. If yes: which one (source please). If no: what level, duration and range would you give this? I would give it minutes per level.

Cheers,
Raezeman

I'd say level 2. Its slightly less powerful than wings of cover which blocks one attack/spell/effect of any kind. But WoC requires an available immediate action to cast.
Wings of cover will save you from a save or suck/lose/die. Your spell will not.
Still though, I'd says its too good for level 1.

[GreatDane]

Level 2, minutes/CL sounds about right. The minutes/CL bit keeps it from being one of those staple lasts-forever spells (hello mage armor), which you wouldn't want on such an effect. This makes it more of a "cast it before a tough fight" spell.

Alternatively, I think a version of this with a longer duration would make for a good higher-level spell (10 min./CL for level 3, hour/CL for level ~5-6?).

[Cruiser1]

While the spell is active, once only when the target of this spell would be reduced below 1 by hitpoint damage it is instead brought down to exactly one. So the question: is there an actual spell like this. If yes: which one (source please).
Yes, this spell exists. Indomitability in SpC is a level 5 Sor/Wiz spell that lasts 1 min/level, and works exactly as described.

[Raezeman]

Yes, this spell exists. Indomitability in SpC is a level 5 Sor/Wiz spell that lasts 1 min/level, and works exactly as described.

awesome! thanks!

[Rijan_Sai]

I'd say level 2. Its slightly less powerful than wings of cover which blocks one attack/spell/effect of any kind. But WoC requires an available immediate action to cast.
Wings of cover will save you from a save or suck/lose/die. Your spell will not.
Still though, I'd says its too good for level 1.


Level 2, minutes/CL sounds about right. The minutes/CL bit keeps it from being one of those staple lasts-forever spells (hello mage armor), which you wouldn't want on such an effect. This makes it more of a "cast it before a tough fight" spell.

Alternatively, I think a version of this with a longer duration would make for a good higher-level spell (10 min./CL for level 3, hour/CL for level ~5-6?).


Yes, this spell exists. Indomitability in SpC is a level 5 Sor/Wiz spell that lasts 1 min/level, and works exactly as described.

So...does the Playground underestimate this spell, or did Wizards overestimate it?
(I'd go with Wizards not knowing much about balance...would certainly not be the first time!)

[Elder_Basilisk]

I would say Wizards over-estimated it, considering that Stalwart Pact is a good deal better with the duration: permanent until triggered and is Clr 5, Pact 5.

2nd level might be too low (though being at 1 hp pretty much guarantees that the next hit will kill you). However 5th level is definitely too high.

Good comparisons are:
Stalwart Pact (5)
Wings of Cover (?--I assume this is from the Draconomicon)
Delay Death (4)
Close wounds (2)

They all do something related though most of them are cleric spells. If you want to implement the sor/wiz defensive spell level tax, making it level 3 is probably fair. It might be worth it at level 4 if it has a longer duration. At level 3, you'll only consider it at levels when you don't cast haste, slow, stinking cloud, dispel magic, or fireball in combat anymore--but you might consider it.

[Cruiser1]

So...does the Playground underestimate this spell, or did Wizards overestimate it?
I would say the Playground underestimated it. Indomitability is basically a contingent True Resurrection. Did that ubercharger sneak attack you for 100000 hp using epic abilities that bypass all your miss chances? No, you're not dead. What's more it's for Sor/Wiz, and is effectively a super heal/resurrect type spell that steps on the toes of Clerics.


Stalwart Pact is a good deal better with the duration: permanent until triggered and is Clr 5, Pact 5.
Stalwart Pact is lame. It costs 250 gp to cast, and when triggered it only gives you up to 35 temp hp for 1 round/level. 35 measly hp doesn't help when that templated Terrasque critical hits you. You want something that can undo an arbitrarily high amount of damage like Indomitability.

[Elder_Basilisk]

I would say the Playground underestimated it. Indomitability is basically a contingent True Resurrection. Did that ubercharger sneak attack you for 100000 hp using epic abilities that bypass all your miss chances? No, you're not dead. What's more it's for Sor/Wiz, and is effectively a super heal/resurrect type spell that steps on the toes of Clerics.


Stalwart Pact is lame. It costs 250 gp to cast, and when triggered it only gives you up to 35 temp hp for 1 round/level. 35 measly hp doesn't help when that templated Terrasque critical hits you. You want something that can undo an arbitrarily high amount of damage like Indomitability.

Stalwart Pact did get a serious nerf in Spell Compendium, but it's still much better than you give it credit for in the level 7-16 range. (Obviously someone else is casting it for you at the low end of the range). 20-35 Temp HP plus miscellaneous bonuses will often be enough to survive an additional attack or two at no cost in action economy or spell slots (presuming it was cast on a prior day or in downtime).

At levels where you are worried about epic abilities, it's much less useful (though the cost is negligible, so why not?) and Indomitability does look much better in comparison. That makes Indomitability a difficult spell to properly evaluate and it might be better designed at a lower level with a cap to the damage it can stop with higher level versions that can stop more damage.