How do you hide your undead minions?

[Aldrakan]

Hello all,

My character is about to start using Animate Dead, and we're based in a major city that does have a fair number of adventurers, but open necromancy isn't really an option. I've seen a lot of info about making undead, but little about what you do with them once you have them. Many of the best undead are big and non-humanoid, so just sticking them in a hooded cloak is not remotely a solution, and are rare enough you don't want to leave them behind.

So I'm curious, what do people do with their bloody skeleton dire tiger when it's not killing people? Illusion? Wrap it in fuzzy cloth and pretend it's an enchanted stuffed toy? Park it in a cave and hope no other necromancer comes along and steals it?
We're playing Pathfinder, but I'd imagine a lot of options are more generally applicable.

[atemu1234]

Usually I have them work on an underground necropolis underneath my home city (it works better with Controlled Bone Clerics).

[DrMotives]

My favorite trick is one I lifted from an old RTS game, Bungie's Myth. The solo campaign was always hiding formations of zombies & skeletons in waterways, they'd march out behind you when you when you charged a visible unit in front, leaving you closed inside a pincer attack. You could also bury your undead in loose soil, garbage dumps, whatever. Not needing to breath or move for extended periods of time leaves more options than hiding living minions.

[Seerow]

Cover it with leather and tell people it's an effigy.


Edit: Alternatively, I saw a post here a few months ago about someone calculating exactly how many broken down skeletons can fit into a bag of holding (the argument had something to do with skeletons not needing to hold their actual form at all times, I don't remember the citation for that claim). It boils down to basically all of them. So just outside of town, load them all up into the bag of holding. Once you're done in town, dump them all out, have them reform, go about your day.

[Urpriest]

Portable Holes can help once you can afford them. In 3.5 there's the Smoky Confinement spell that basically can be used as a pokeball.

[Maglubiyet]

Disguise Undead, 2nd-level spell in Magic of Faerun. Make them look like something/someone else.

Have them hide underwater, in a river or pond.

Bag of Holding.

[Seerow]

Portable Holes can help once you can afford them. In 3.5 there's the Smoky Confinement spell that basically can be used as a pokeball.

Oh man that is awesome.

Now I want to see a custom item of Smokey Confinement + Dominate Monster. Make it cheaper for type restriction (only usable by humanoids. Only usable on animals and magical beasts. Maybe also abberation) and an attunement (after using it on one creature you can only use it on that monster from that point on).


Hrm... even with those restrictions it'll be well over 200k gold. Guess you'd have to settle for Dominate Animal, but that means no magical beasts :(

[Aldrakan]

Portable Holes can help once you can afford them.

Ah that sounds perfect for getting them in and out of places. Although the mobile charnel pit full of gore-drenched skeletons is going to need regular cleaning.

Looking up effigies in Pathfinder they seem like they would attract almost as much negative press as openly having undead, but I think the idea of covering one with something and claiming they're constructs of some manner has potential (the suggestion about covering one with fuzz and pretending it's an animated stuffed animal was not entirely a joke).

[Vizzerdrix]

Remember, always dump a bit of black sand into your portable hole to mend any damaged minions.

[zao]

I remember looking into this for several days to find a cheap way to hide/transport my undead and most of the options weren't really viable for anything other than high level characters. There are some choices, but they all kinda suck. Im honestly considering making a handbook for this topic, lol.

spells...
- secret chest spell (high level)
- disguise undead spell (only lasts 10 mins/level... whoops, timer ran out, accidental hysteria caused)
- illusion spells? (not sure, would have to do more research, but im guessing the durations would suck)
- rope trick (doesn't work for this purpose)

items...
- portable hole (20k gold, who the heck can afford this again?)
- bag of holding (expensive, also how does one fit a skeleton through that opening quick enough for combat? let alone 20)

other...
- hide them outside of town (necromancers not allowed to play in city encounters i guess :\)
- mundane disguise (yeah thats my brother darrel, he smells, we know... who would be dumb enough to fall for this?)
- literally carrying them (1: gross smell gives you away. 2: too heavy.)

In my campaign i ended up finding a cheesy way to do it which almost got me hit with the dmg. First, I spell stitched my favorite undead so he can use magic items. Then, I got the craft wondrous item feat and made an amulet of alter self for him to use, so now he can transform into a shadow for easy storage and can quickly pop out for combat.

honestly it depends on your circumstances. if youre low level, simply carrying them konkuro style from naruto might be best, its free and viable from level 1, just heavy. If you're at least medium level but have no money, disguise undead might be best. And if you're high level and have cash, portable holes and secret chests probably work best. I hope this helps.

[Jack_Simth]

Enveloping Pit, Magic Item Compendium... plus a really tall ladder... should do the job quite well.

[Vizzerdrix]

And this is why a player should have several tough, small undead handy.

And if you think undead are hard to transport, I made a caster that utilized Drakken beasts once, or tried to anyways. Things did not end well in that game.

[Curmudgeon]

Summon an Earth Elemental and bury your Undead buddies outside of town. If you need to hide them, you don't have an immediate need for them.

[Coidzor]

Ah that sounds perfect for getting them in and out of places. Although the mobile charnel pit full of gore-drenched skeletons is going to need regular cleaning.

And that's why Prestidigitation is a wonderful thing.

[Mr Adventurer]

Summon an Earth Elemental and bury your Undead buddies outside of town. If you need to hide them, you don't have an immediate need for them.

Earth Elementals have Glide, but (most?) Undead don't.


Portable Holes can help once you can afford them. In 3.5 there's the Smoky Confinement spell that basically can be used as a pokeball.


Oh man that is awesome.

Now I want to see a custom item of Smokey Confinement + Dominate Monster.

Smoky Confinement is awesome but it allows a Fortitude save which makes undead immune to it.

You can get around undead immunities but it makes it much less convenient.

[Mr Adventurer]

Best thing I have found so far is Haunt Shift, from Libris Mortis. Only works up to 9 HD though.

[Curmudgeon]

Earth Elementals have Glide, but (most?) Undead don't.
The Undead don't need it, because Earth Elementals have Push, letting them Bull Rush the Undead into the ground (moving with them, as per the normal Bull Rush rules). The Undead get moved by the Earth Elemental; they don't move themselves.

[Mr Adventurer]

That doesn't make any sense.

[Curmudgeon]

Gliding through earth like a fish glides through water doesn't make sense; I agree. But given that ability, pushing something with you as you go doesn't make any less sense.

[icefractal]

Use skeletons, wash them clean with lye (to prevent any smell), then seal them into full-body leather (or metal) suits and add stuffing so the skeletal-ness is not apparent. Then claim they're constructs.

Benefit over hiding or storing them is that you can keep a couple around as bodyguards. Main issue is Detect Undead and the like, which Nondetection / Misdirection could help with.

[Coidzor]

Best thing I have found so far is Haunt Shift, from Libris Mortis. Only works up to 9 HD though.

That's what Holy Arrows are for! :smallbiggrin:

[Jack_Simth]

Use skeletons, wash them clean with lye (to prevent any smell), then seal them into full-body leather (or metal) suits and add stuffing so the skeletal-ness is not apparent. Then claim they're constructs.

Benefit over hiding or storing them is that you can keep a couple around as bodyguards. Main issue is Detect Undead and the like, which Nondetection / Misdirection could help with.
Oh, yes. Learn a second language.
Get some suits of full plate (stylized).
Line the interior with lead (Craft check, probably)
Put skeleton inside full plate suits.
Stuff them a bit so that the missing flesh isn't obvious (disguise check, probably).
Add chain mail fragments as needed to hide everything where skin should show (again, disguise check, maybe Craft again, or both).
Claim they're quiet bodyguards from a foreign country.

Detection magic won't show anything (lead blocks the vast majority of such). No magic needed beyond the animation.

[Aldrakan]

Use skeletons, wash them clean with lye (to prevent any smell), then seal them into full-body leather (or metal) suits and add stuffing so the skeletal-ness is not apparent. Then claim they're constructs.

Benefit over hiding or storing them is that you can keep a couple around as bodyguards. Main issue is Detect Undead and the like, which Nondetection / Misdirection could help with.

The problem I see is that a lot of the corpses I'd want to animate aren't human or humanoid, since a "standard" (i.e. 1 HD humanoid) skeleton or zombie is nearly useless in combat at this point. We're level 8, a little late on getting this going for character reasons. If they were humanoid I'd just stick them in armor and cloaks as you suggest, and that's probably still an option for some of them.
Some kind of customized suit to match the skeleton would work, but it would probably be very expensive and means bringing an outsider in to construct it.

[Judge_Worm]

Why are you trying to hide them?

I mean really, with an army of undead who's going to tell you "sorry, you can't do that." Anywhere that has the ability to deal with an undead horde either won't care (ex. Union) or has bigger fish to fry than a necromancer's legion that isn't attacking.

[sideswipe]

i have a fellow player who buys a large cart and a big tarpaulin. he also is really bad at being a necromancer as he just leaves them to guard the cart and goes alone....

[Aldrakan]

Why are you trying to hide them?

To start with, the rest of the party would not like it. We have a business, a tavern, a burgeoning reputation with local organizations, all of which open necromancy would interfere with. We operate out of a major city that would be able to shut us down, and would not tolerate a little necropolis appearing within its borders.

Also I'm playing a White Necromancer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/kobold-press-open-design/white-necromancer), so just terrifying people into not interfering isn't an attractive option to the character. Secrecy is going to be the preferred route for a good while.


i have a fellow player who buys a large cart and a big tarpaulin. he also is really bad at being a necromancer as he just leaves them to guard the cart and goes alone....

Our party did have a large cart once. It had to be left behind about 4 levels ago, they always meant to go back and get it...

[Judge_Worm]

To start with, the rest of the party would not like it. We have a business, a tavern, a burgeoning reputation with local organizations, all of which open necromancy would interfere with. We operate out of a major city that would be able to shut us down, and would not tolerate a little necropolis appearing within its borders.

Also I'm playing a White Necromancer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/kobold-press-open-design/white-necromancer), so just terrifying people into not interfering isn't an attractive option to the character. Secrecy is going to be the preferred route for a good while.



Our party did have a large cart once. It had to be left behind about 4 levels ago, they always meant to go back and get it...


In that case I have a different solution. Build a stronghold along a trade route and park your minions there. It has the added benefit of being it's own profit maker and undead can defend it.

[icefractal]

The problem I see is that a lot of the corpses I'd want to animate aren't human or humanoid, since a "standard" (i.e. 1 HD humanoid) skeleton or zombie is nearly useless in combat at this point. We're level 8, a little late on getting this going for character reasons. If they were humanoid I'd just stick them in armor and cloaks as you suggest, and that's probably still an option for some of them.
Some kind of customized suit to match the skeleton would work, but it would probably be very expensive and means bringing an outsider in to construct it.Customized suit is the way to go. I wasn't suggesting disguising them as people in armor (although that's an option for intelligent ones like Ghouls), but rather as constructs. Undead and constructs share a lot of traits, such as not breathing or speaking, so you don't have to disguise them very much.

If finding a discreet crafter is a problem, I recommend a scroll of Fabricate. Get a decent Craft check (easy if you're a Wizard, the skill is Int-based and usable untrained) and you're set. Might even be cheaper than getting it done the normal way, for larger undead. And as Jack_Simth mentioned, make the suit lead-lined for natural divination protection.

[Coidzor]

To start with, the rest of the party would not like it. We have a business, a tavern, a burgeoning reputation with local organizations, all of which open necromancy would interfere with. We operate out of a major city that would be able to shut us down, and would not tolerate a little necropolis appearing within its borders.

Also I'm playing a White Necromancer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/kobold-press-open-design/white-necromancer), so just terrifying people into not interfering isn't an attractive option to the character. Secrecy is going to be the preferred route for a good while.

Doesn't really sound like your character is a good fit for the campaign you're in, then. :smallconfused: Why'd you go for this character given what the game would be? Did you discuss your character's necromancing with the GM at all?

[BilltheCynic]

Found a religion, the Church of Romero. Dress up all of your undead in long robes that obscure all of their features (yes, even the non-humanoids. Who says non-humanoids can't join a religion). Claim that this is a requirement of the Church, that you will avoid vanity. Also claim that all members save a high priest (you) must take a vow of silence and that all members are strictly forbidden from ever bathing. If anyone protests, accuse them of suppressing your religious freedom.

[Geddy2112]

To start with, the rest of the party would not like it. I'm playing a White Necromancer

You are a white necromancer, and you want to talk about life and death? Hide them in plain sight. Give em a bit of a cleaning, a once over with embalming fluid, then use clay/putty/etc to mold on the other body parts. Charge admission for the exhibition of your "specimens", and so long as they don't move you are gold. You can "move" them to display how a muscle moves, or a heart pumps. As for the magic, sure somebody could detect necromancy, but just say its "gentle repose", and your white necromancy does not have evil. Necromancy preserves corpses after all...and prestidigitation to clean em!. It is science after all; we have "Bodies" the exhibit, which is a bit morbid but travels the world.

http://www.premierexhibitions.com/exhibitions/4/4/bodies-exhibition

Now your corpses are ready to use at the drop of a hat, but socially acceptable(check your local religions for the rules on displaying corpses) and bringing your group fame and coin.

[illyahr]

Character in my last campaign was a follower of Erythnul. He had a set of five carriages and would strap/nail his kills to the sides. He picked up a cleric of Nerull who would turn them into undead but they would remain strapped/nailed to the carriages when not in use and remain still. If anyone asked, he would just say they were his trophies and stop repressing his religion! :smalltongue:

[Heikold]

A bunch of fake moustaches, a really high Bluff score and Glibness?