What about Rogue (POW and SOP)

[Thatwarforged]

So I have recently bought Spheres of power, love it and that is going to be the only magic in the game (Besides maybe some akashic mysteries veilshaping). I've also been reading Path of War on the SRD and love it and that going to be used with some homebrew classes and archetype for all martials in the game.
1) The question here is what should I do about rogues (or other mundane skill monkeys) should I just make them Initiators or is their any good mechanics to give them tier 3 and have something to do in a round besides stab something?

2) Not exactly pertaining to Rogues but I am a little to lazy to make a new thread for it. How should Spheres of power interact with Mythic?

[Vhaidara]

Honestly, keep an eye on the PoW: Expanded playtest. There are rumors flickering about a rogue archetype.

Alternatively, use an Int based Stalker. Swap Stalker Arts for Rogue Talents, make the initiation mod Int, and switch Deadly Strike to Sneak Attack. Tada, an initiating Rogue.

As far as Spheres with Mythic, I don't think they mix well. Maybe Mythic lets you access some of the Advanced Talents a bit earlier?

[Thatwarforged]

Man i will have to keep an eye open for that rogue archetype. Though I need to clerify my question. What should i do about none magic and non martial like characters? I have personally viewed rogue as somewhat martial so I dont mind them being intiators but what about other which might not fit neatly in either or?

Should I just make my own homebrewed archmage for my game that utilizes sop instead or just ignore it?

[Vhaidara]

The thing is, in combat, if you aren't an initiator of some sort or a caster you generally fall into the category of Paizo mundane, which doesn't measure up well. Just focus on stealthier utility disciplines (Steel Serpent, Veiled Moon, Shattered Mirror, Tempest Gale) and it should be fine

I can't really comment on Mythic, I've never really gotten to use it. The one time I did, a lot of it seemed pretty meh.

[Elricaltovilla]

Official recommendation: Check out the Vigilante Stalker archetype from the playtest documents (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tbBIinA90VQW8eriM0TZTZCbHsSU6cdv7_44J8w564s/edit?pli=1). Its an INT based stalker with an inspiration pool instead of ki, trapfinding, sneak attack instead of deadly strike, and a discipline list that avoids being supernatural as much as possible.

Unofficial Recommendation: I'd recommend disciplines like Steel Serpent, Thrashing Dragon, Veiled Moon and Shattered Mirror for utility and stealth. Mithral Current too if you like hidden weapon style stuff.

SUPER DUPER UNOFFICIAL RECOMMENDATION:


Barbarian- Use Primal Disciple from Playtest Doc. Give maneuver and stance progression as Warlord. Add Scarlet Throne to discipline list. Cap Maneuvers at 9th level.

Bard- Allow bard to ready maneuvers/stances in spell slots. Standard Action maneuver recovery only. Disciplines: Golden Lion, Scarlet Throne, Mithral Current, Tempest Gale, Solar Wind. Initiating Modifier: CHA. Cap maneuvers at 6th level.

Cleric- No maneuvers. They get 9th level spells.

Druid- No maneuvers. They get 9th level spells.

Fighter- Maneuver and Stance Progression as Stalker. Pick 5 Disciplines (add discipline skills as class skills). Pick Initiating Modifier at level 1 (INT, WIS or CHA). Recover Maneuvers with Swift+Standard or Full Attack. Boost Skill points to 4+INT. Cap Maneuvers at 9th level.

Monk- Use Monk of the Silver Fist from Playtest Doc. Give maneuver and stance progression as Stalker. Add Broken Blade and Thrashing Dragon to discipline list. Cap Maneuvers at 9th level.

Paladin- Use Knight Disciple from Playtest Doc. Maneuver and Stance Progression as Warder. Give back Spellcasting. Add Scarlet Throne to discipline list. Cap Maneuvers at 9th level.

Ranger- Use Ambush Hunter from Playtest Doc. Maneuver and Stance Progression as Warder. Give back Spellcasting. Add Solar Wind to base Ranger Disciplines (Crossbow and Thrown styles give Tempest Gale). Cap maneuvers at 9th level.

Rogue- Disciplines: Shattered Mirror, Steel Serpent, Thrashing Dragon, Tempest Gale, Veiled Moon. Maneuver and Stance Progression as Warlord. Recover maneuvers with Full-round Action, Withdraw+Teleport instead of normal movement. Initiating Modifier: INT. Cap maneuvers at 9th level.

Sorcerer- No maneuvers. They get 9th level spells.

Wizard- No maneuvers. They get 9th level spells.

Alchemist- Use Alchemist Discoveries in Playtest Doc. Cap maneuvers at 6th level.

Cavalier- Use the Hussar instead. Cavaliers suck.

Gunslinger- Disciplines: Primal Fury, Solar Wind, Steel Serpent, Tempest Gale. Maneuver and Stance Progression as Warder. Recover Maneuvers with Gambits (ranged only) as warlord. Initiating Modifier: WIS. Cap maneuvers at 9th level.

Inquisitor- Allow Inquisitor to ready maneuvers/stances in spell slots. Standard Action maneuver recovery only. Disciplines: Any with the weapon group of the Inquisitor's Deity's associated weapon. Initiating Modifier: WIS. Cap maneuvers at 6th level.

Magus-Allow Magus to ready maneuvers/stances in spell slots. Standard Action maneuver recovery only. Disciplines: Elemental Flux, Mithral Current, Primal Fury, Scarlet Throne. Initiating Modifier: INT. Cap maneuvers at 6th level.

Oracle- No maneuvers. They get 9th level spells.

Summoner- I'll see if I can dig up Ssalarn's proposed summoner archetype.

Witch- No maneuvers. They get 9th level spells.

Arcanist- No maneuvers. They get 9th level spells.

Bloodrager- Disciplines: Cursed Razor, Elemental Flux, Eternal Guardian, Primal Fury. Recover Maneuvers like Primal Disciple (recover 1 round of Bloodrage instead of Rage). Maneuver and Stance progression as Warder. Initiating Modifier: CHA. Cap maneuvers at 9th level.

Brawler- Disciplines: Broken Blade, Iron Tortoise, Primal Fury, Thrashing Dragon. Recover Maneuvers with Swift+Full Attack or Swift+Standard Attack. Maneuver and Stance Progression as Warlord. Initiating Modifier: Choose INT, WIS or CHA. Cap maneuvers at 9th level.

Hunter- Allow Hunter to ready maneuvers/stances in spell slots. Standard Action maneuver recovery only. Disciplines: Piercing Thunder, Primal Fury, Solar Wind, Tempest Gale. Initiating Mod: WIS. Cap maneuvers at 6th level.

Investigator- Use Alchemist Discoveries in Playtest Doc.

Shaman- No maneuvers. They get 9th level spells.

Skald- Allow Skald to ready maneuvers/stances in spell slots. Standard Action maneuver recovery only. Disciplines: Golden Lion, Piercing Thunder, Primal Fury, Solar Wind. Initiating Modifier: CHA. Cap maneuvers at 6th level.

Slayer- Disciplines: Primal Fury, Steel Serpent, Thrashing Dragon, Tempest Gale. Maneuver and Stance Progression as Warlord. Recover maneuvers with claim mechanic, as Soul Hunter Stalker. Initiating Modifier: INT. Cap maneuvers at 9th level.

Swashbuckler- Disciplines: Mithral Current, Scarlet Throne, Golden Lion, Primal Fury. Maneuver and Stance Progression as Warlord. Recover when swashbuckler succeeds on Deed. Initiating Modifier: CHA. Cap maneuvers at 9th level.

Warpriest- Allow Warpriest to ready maneuvers/stances in spell slots. Standard Action maneuver recovery only. Disciplines: Any with the weapon group of the Inquisitor's Deity's associated weapon. Initiating Modifier: WIS. Cap maneuvers at 6th level.

[Thatwarforged]

The thing is, in combat, if you aren't an initiator of some sort or a caster you generally fall into the category of Paizo mundane, which doesn't measure up well. Just focus on stealthier utility disciplines (Steel Serpent, Veiled Moon, Shattered Mirror, Tempest Gale) and it should be fine

I can't really comment on Mythic, I've never really gotten to use it. The one time I did, a lot of it seemed pretty meh.

Yeah kind of figured something like that but I still was hoping their was a nice skill power system or similar out there. Its fine about mythic I was thinking of utilizing as a way to make the game more anime like.


Official recommendation: Check out the Vigilante Stalker archetype from the playtest documents (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tbBIinA90VQW8eriM0TZTZCbHsSU6cdv7_44J8w564s/edit?pli=1). Its an INT based stalker with an inspiration pool instead of ki, trapfinding, sneak attack instead of deadly strike, and a discipline list that avoids being supernatural as much as possible.

Unofficial Recommendation: I'd recommend disciplines like Steel Serpent, Thrashing Dragon, Veiled Moon and Shattered Mirror for utility and stealth. Mithral Current too if you like hidden weapon style stuff.

SUPER DUPER UNOFFICIAL RECOMMENDATION:


Barbarian- Use Primal Disciple from Playtest Doc. Give maneuver and stance progression as Warlord. Add Scarlet Throne to discipline list. Cap Maneuvers at 9th level.

Bard- Allow bard to ready maneuvers/stances in spell slots. Standard Action maneuver recovery only. Disciplines: Golden Lion, Scarlet Throne, Mithral Current, Tempest Gale, Solar Wind. Initiating Modifier: CHA. Cap maneuvers at 6th level.

Cleric- No maneuvers. They get 9th level spells.

Druid- No maneuvers. They get 9th level spells.

Fighter- Maneuver and Stance Progression as Stalker. Pick 5 Disciplines (add discipline skills as class skills). Pick Initiating Modifier at level 1 (INT, WIS or CHA). Recover Maneuvers with Swift+Standard or Full Attack. Boost Skill points to 4+INT. Cap Maneuvers at 9th level.

Monk- Use Monk of the Silver Fist from Playtest Doc. Give maneuver and stance progression as Stalker. Add Broken Blade and Thrashing Dragon to discipline list. Cap Maneuvers at 9th level.

Paladin- Use Knight Disciple from Playtest Doc. Maneuver and Stance Progression as Warder. Give back Spellcasting. Add Scarlet Throne to discipline list. Cap Maneuvers at 9th level.

Ranger- Use Ambush Hunter from Playtest Doc. Maneuver and Stance Progression as Warder. Give back Spellcasting. Add Solar Wind to base Ranger Disciplines (Crossbow and Thrown styles give Tempest Gale). Cap maneuvers at 9th level.

Rogue- Disciplines: Shattered Mirror, Steel Serpent, Thrashing Dragon, Tempest Gale, Veiled Moon. Maneuver and Stance Progression as Warlord. Recover maneuvers with Full-round Action, Withdraw+Teleport instead of normal movement. Initiating Modifier: INT. Cap maneuvers at 9th level.

Sorcerer- No maneuvers. They get 9th level spells.

Wizard- No maneuvers. They get 9th level spells.

Alchemist- Use Alchemist Discoveries in Playtest Doc. Cap maneuvers at 6th level.

Cavalier- Use the Hussar instead. Cavaliers suck.

Gunslinger- Disciplines: Primal Fury, Solar Wind, Steel Serpent, Tempest Gale. Maneuver and Stance Progression as Warder. Recover Maneuvers with Gambits (ranged only) as warlord. Initiating Modifier: WIS. Cap maneuvers at 9th level.

Inquisitor- Allow Inquisitor to ready maneuvers/stances in spell slots. Standard Action maneuver recovery only. Disciplines: Any with the weapon group of the Inquisitor's Deity's associated weapon. Initiating Modifier: WIS. Cap maneuvers at 6th level.

Magus-Allow Magus to ready maneuvers/stances in spell slots. Standard Action maneuver recovery only. Disciplines: Elemental Flux, Mithral Current, Primal Fury, Scarlet Throne. Initiating Modifier: INT. Cap maneuvers at 6th level.

Oracle- No maneuvers. They get 9th level spells.

Summoner- I'll see if I can dig up Ssalarn's proposed summoner archetype.

Witch- No maneuvers. They get 9th level spells.

Arcanist- No maneuvers. They get 9th level spells.

Bloodrager- Disciplines: Cursed Razor, Elemental Flux, Eternal Guardian, Primal Fury. Recover Maneuvers like Primal Disciple (recover 1 round of Bloodrage instead of Rage). Maneuver and Stance progression as Warder. Initiating Modifier: CHA. Cap maneuvers at 9th level.

Brawler- Disciplines: Broken Blade, Iron Tortoise, Primal Fury, Thrashing Dragon. Recover Maneuvers with Swift+Full Attack or Swift+Standard Attack. Maneuver and Stance Progression as Warlord. Initiating Modifier: Choose INT, WIS or CHA. Cap maneuvers at 9th level.

Hunter- Allow Hunter to ready maneuvers/stances in spell slots. Standard Action maneuver recovery only. Disciplines: Piercing Thunder, Primal Fury, Solar Wind, Tempest Gale. Initiating Mod: WIS. Cap maneuvers at 6th level.

Investigator- Use Alchemist Discoveries in Playtest Doc.

Shaman- No maneuvers. They get 9th level spells.

Skald- Allow Skald to ready maneuvers/stances in spell slots. Standard Action maneuver recovery only. Disciplines: Golden Lion, Piercing Thunder, Primal Fury, Solar Wind. Initiating Modifier: CHA. Cap maneuvers at 6th level.

Slayer- Disciplines: Primal Fury, Steel Serpent, Thrashing Dragon, Tempest Gale. Maneuver and Stance Progression as Warlord. Recover maneuvers with claim mechanic, as Soul Hunter Stalker. Initiating Modifier: INT. Cap maneuvers at 9th level.

Swashbuckler- Disciplines: Mithral Current, Scarlet Throne, Golden Lion, Primal Fury. Maneuver and Stance Progression as Warlord. Recover when swashbuckler succeeds on Deed. Initiating Modifier: CHA. Cap maneuvers at 9th level.

Warpriest- Allow Warpriest to ready maneuvers/stances in spell slots. Standard Action maneuver recovery only. Disciplines: Any with the weapon group of the Inquisitor's Deity's associated weapon. Initiating Modifier: WIS. Cap maneuvers at 6th level.


Thanks this is really useful, I might utilize some of these.

[Arbane]

Nifty, but my opinion on two of them:



SUPER DUPER UNOFFICIAL RECOMMENDATION:


Fighter- Maneuver and Stance Progression as Stalker. Pick 5 Disciplines (add discipline skills as class skills). Pick Initiating Modifier at level 1 (INT, WIS or CHA). Recover Maneuvers with Swift+Standard or Full Attack. Boost Skill points to 4+INT. Cap Maneuvers at 9th level.

Summoner- I'll see if I can dig up Ssalarn's proposed summoner archetype.


Fighter: Play a Warlord or a Warder. This is literally the reason PoW exists!

Summoner: No maneuvers, they get 9th level spells - they just CALL them 6th level for some unfathomable reason.

[Elricaltovilla]

Fighter: Play a Warlord or a Warder. This is literally the reason PoW exists!

Fighter is DPS, with a myth of being a Tank or a Buffer/Commander. Warlord is DPS/Buffer and Warlord is a Tank/DPS. This way if you just want to smash face, you can be a fighter and hit the top of the damage charts and just not worry about being tactical or anything without feeling like you're wasting class features.



Summoner: No maneuvers, they get 9th level spells - they just CALL them 6th level for some unfathomable reason.

Summoner is borked, yes. The Summoner Archetype trades out spellcasting altogether though, so I let it slide in my games.