Tips for a legend of Zelda style adventure

[lytokk]

So, in an upcoming game, the group expressed interest in a LoZ style game. This will most likely be a one shot, but could become something longer. Since Zelda games tend to be a little more about puzzles, I'm having problems coming up with anything good, that isn't extremely item dependant, which is what Zelda games tend to be. Its a simple 3 person team, a bard, paladin of freedom, and a variant dread necro, all level 5. The bard and paladin are newcomers, and the necro has a little bit of experience playing.

I would prefer to do something more than the clear the room, get the key, move to the next room. Any help that could be given will be appreciated.

[Geddy2112]

I like the idea of a Zelda based campaign-and I can't think of many Zelda games(at least the ones I have played) where the dungeon was that simple and straightforward. Sure, you need the dungeon item to complete some of the puzzles, but not all of them. Even once you have it, it just unlocks the puzzles/challenges that are still difficult, just possible with the longshot/hammer/mirror shield etc.

Almost every dungeon from the Ocarina of Time has a puzzle/maze element that is not just find key, clear room, next. Pick your favorite temple and bam, dungeon. Obviously if you throw your players in the water temple its going to be a bit harder than the forest temple...but each has combat and non combat challenges. You could have a room filled with water, secret doors, torches that have to be lit in a certain order etc.

I think a Forest temple style would be best-have a major puzzle, like collecting the essence of 4 poe's and completing the puzzle in the main chamber to unlock the door. Have some rooms with monsters, some with traps, some with random nonsense, and some with easy/medium puzzles. A simple skyrim arrange the pillars, or align mirrors to complete the light path, or a deep chasm to be crossed.

[Sacrieur]

Four Swords man. The GBA version.

[bjoern]

Obviously if you throw your players in the water temple its going to be a bit harder than the forest temple...

Only only do that if you hate your players. I think I'd have my guy drown himself before I had to live through the water temple again.....

[lytokk]

Four Swords man. The GBA version.

Never actually got the opportunity to play that one. For some reason, my friends at the time just weren't buying game boys, and I didn't feel the need to buy the game. And now its difficult to find.

The forest temple from OoT sounds like a pretty good starting off point. Other than hookshot the only required item was the bow, which is standard adventurer equipment. I'm hesitant to use block puzzles as usually they're pretty easily solvable by looking at them, and there's not a whole lot of excitement involved in solving them. I'll dig out my strategy guides and poach some ideas for rooms from those, since they had convenient overhead maps.

[Blackhawk748]

Never actually got the opportunity to play that one. For some reason, my friends at the time just weren't buying game boys, and I didn't feel the need to buy the game. And now its difficult to find.

The forest temple from OoT sounds like a pretty good starting off point. Other than hookshot the only required item was the bow, which is standard adventurer equipment. I'm hesitant to use block puzzles as usually they're pretty easily solvable by looking at them, and there's not a whole lot of excitement involved in solving them. I'll dig out my strategy guides and poach some ideas for rooms from those, since they had convenient overhead maps.

Block puzzles are great for when your being attacked. Just throw a few weak enemies at them until they solve it, makes things far more interesting.

[lytokk]

Block puzzles are great for when your being attacked. Just throw a few weak enemies at them until they solve it, makes things far more interesting.

That would definitely make things more interesting.

[Blackhawk748]

That would definitely make things more interesting.

Especially when the Strong Guy needs to push the block :smallcool:

[LoyalPaladin]

Not a ton to contribute, but I think I'm going to give this a whirl. Once I get to my home computer I'll see if I come up with anything of use to you!

[Bucky]

Most Zelda puzzles fall into one of three categories: Discovery puzzles where the challenge is figuring out the rules of the puzzle, Navigation puzzles where the goal is simply to find your way to a specific spot or several spots in sequence, and Combat puzzles.

Discovery puzzles are hard to make work in tabletop, since describing the puzzle verbally rather than visually gives away too many hints. Say the room has four unlit braziers and they immediately know to light them.

Combat puzzles can work, but are obviously different from anything Zelda. You can sort of simulate the feel, though, with monster abilities like Pathfinder tower shields (full cover from the front), telegraphed attacks (they target an area that goes boom after a round) and Trample attacks with forced movement instead of knockdown.

You can even implement a puzzle entirely within the combat system, like an immobile Construct blocking the door that has a ton of HP on top of its DR, counter-attacks any attacks with its own (including a ranged option), and AoO grapples and Hurl Anythings anyone who tries to sneak through the door.

Navigation puzzles are the easiest to implement, although the players will have movement options to defeat staples like the jump-off ledge. If Keys are one-charge magic items scattered about and Switches make changes elsewhere in the dungeon (label them!) you can easily set up a situation where the party needs to go down three branches of the dungeon to hit three switches before accessing the end, plus poke into a couple of side rooms for keys. And that's just one way of doing it; it's probably better to structure the dungeon in a way that later parts are visible but not accessible from earlier parts.

Above all, I'd recommend against copying any existing Zelda dungeon puzzles that don't obviously fit into a D&D dungeon.

[Rijan_Sai]

Don't forget about the bosses! Both item-based and "puzzle" types.

Examples:
Item:
Ghoma - Arrow to the eye (Almost every LoZ, ever);
Dodongo - Bomb down the throat (Ditto)

Puzzle*:
Twinrova (Ocarina of TIme);
Eox (Phantom Hourglass)

*There is some overlap, as most Puzzle bosses generally require one of the items to solve the puzzle. The difference being that with Item bosses, that's generally the direct attack (even though, with OoT and beyond, it generally just stuns the boss so you can attack it directly with your sword...), while PB's tend to be more...involved (and more frequent on the Game Boy/Color/Advance/(3)DS).

[XionUnborn01]

I think that the biggest challenge might be your players having access to magic. It might be beneficial to limit them to either non-magic or limited magic classes like the ranger/paladin. otherwise you run into the issues where your PCs can use magic to bypass half the puzzles.

[lytokk]

There really isnt a lot of magic access in the group as planned. And i was thinking something akin to a hydra as a boss. They definitely feel zelda ish.

[Coidzor]

Only only do that if you hate your players. I think I'd have my guy drown himself before I had to live through the water temple again.....

At least in D&D you can eventually beat your way through things like walls and avoid situations where the game hangs because keys were used in the wrong order and travel in 3 dimensions differently and there's no real issue with camera angles.

[arkangel111]

I had this interesting idea for a puzzle once, but it requires your players be willing to show you how they do it.

The players enter the room. In the center on the ground is a series of colored tiles, roughly 6 inches across each and numbering around 30 (your mat may vary). The tiles are laid out in rows of colors. Around the room stands (insert number of players here) statues. Each statue speaks so that each player can hear one of the statues (using languages specific to each character is best but you can make it telepathic or some such if you desire). Each statue gives the player 4 instructions (5 if you include the head). (I suggest passing a note, for fun you can make the characters unable to communicate with each other while in the room).

Now as the DM you pull out that dusty old twister mat and watch as the players try to arrange themselves to solve the puzzle. For added complexity make it so that only certain tiles glow for that player even when its the right color, therefore forcing more complex positions.

WARNING this event may cause much sidetracking and tons of OOC fun.

[KillingAScarab]

There really isnt a lot of magic access in the group as planned. And i was thinking something akin to a hydra as a boss. They definitely feel zelda ish.Were you thinking of Gleeok (http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Gleeok_%28The_Legend_of_Zelda%29), or Trinexx (http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Trinexx)? Also of note, Blind (http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Blind) acted somewhat like a Gleeok in A Link to the Past, but had that nice little bit where the maiden you saved turns into the boss when you get to the boss room. It became obvious something was up since she wouldn't leave the dungeon and you had already been through at least two Dark World dungeons with maidens in crystals by that point, but there might be something more to the idea worth exploring.

Also, I'm guessing only the dread necromancer variant would have access to direct damage magic. If your boss requires any specific energy damage to take down, perhaps there's a way to incorporate it into the boss room? This would probably be important if you try for something like Trinexx with, say, pyrohydra and/or cryohydra. Might make more sense than breaking pots in the corner and getting spells back.

[ace rooster]

Block puzzles are great for when your being attacked. Just throw a few weak enemies at them until they solve it, makes things far more interesting.

Auto reset summon monster traps are your friend! :smallsmile:

[lytokk]

I was thinking either a 3 or 4 headed pyrohydra. Since these people are all going to be mostly new to the game I didn't want to throw anything incredibly powerful at them, just something challenging. Probably also ignore the sundering rules to cut off a head. More than likely I'll adjust the heads and type of hydra based upon how they do inside the dungeon.

Trying to think of creatures to populate the dungeon. My usual goto is undead, but with the Dread necro those are out. Could do vermin or even some rats, but since all the zelda dungeons always had a theme probably something relating to the hydra, so something lizardy/reptillian.

[Toilet Cobra]

Water temple rightly gets a lot of flak, but I must say that the Dark Link fight blew me away. Totally didn't expect it and so much fun. So I heartily recommend a mirror of opposition to provide the mini-boss for your temple!

[Alex1983]

I'm actually running a game inspired off of Zelda ideas. The players don't really know the series though, and I haven't mentioned it (they have enough reading just with the player's handbook). But now they are about to enter a forsaken temple based on the level 1 dungeon in the original NES The legend of Zelda. I didn't do anything really fancy with the dungeon just adapted the monsters, and added traps. It's fun to see other people are doing this though and I might use some of the ideas mentioned here like the mirror of opposition.

[atemu1234]

Only only do that if you hate your players. I think I'd have my guy drown himself before I had to live through the water temple again.....

To be fair, it's not like you can die from it. /rulesdysfunction

[lytokk]

Truthfully, I think a water temple would be easier to manage in D&D than it would be in the game. With freedom of movement and water breathing, not to mention the fact you'd no longer be limited by what the designers wanted you to be able to do, the dungeons could go much easier.

The whole mirror of opposition thing would be great, but as two of the players are brand new and for the game I'm building the characters for them, I don't think it would be close to a fair fight.

Thinking aboiut including a custom item that basically changes half of the damage done by someone in melee into fire damage. Would allow me to use a little bit bigger hydra than planned.

[KillingAScarab]

I was thinking either a 3 or 4 headed pyrohydra. Since these people are all going to be mostly new to the game I didn't want to throw anything incredibly powerful at them, just something challenging. Probably also ignore the sundering rules to cut off a head. More than likely I'll adjust the heads and type of hydra based upon how they do inside the dungeon.

Trying to think of creatures to populate the dungeon. My usual goto is undead, but with the Dread necro those are out. Could do vermin or even some rats, but since all the zelda dungeons always had a theme probably something relating to the hydra, so something lizardy/reptillian.You could use lizardfolk for lizalfos (http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Lizalfos). They're always strait-up warriors in the games I have played, though the wikia article mentions they could breathe fire in Skyward Sword. In Zelda II they might throw axes at Link, which were always so difficult to dodge. Twilight Princess gave them a weapon on their tail.

A triceratops is CR 9. Might make a good King Dodongo (http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/King_Dodongo), but then you need bombs.


Thinking aboiut including a custom item that basically changes half of the damage done by someone in melee into fire damage. Would allow me to use a little bit bigger hydra than planned.Complete Adventuerer had weapon capsules which would add an alchemical effect with a standard action (or a swift action if you have a weapon caspule retainer on the weapon). Quickflame capsules give 1d6 points of fire damage for a round. Might be a good start.

[lytokk]

I was just thinking a set of gauntlets which, when a command word is spoken, heats a weapon so that half of the damage it deals is considered fire damage. Obvious crafting spell would be heat metal, which while it doesn't work that way, very well could/should. Trolls may be a popular baddie in the dungeon, with the first few fights being difficult until someone gets this item (most likely the paladin). Now I've just got an archery focusing bard and a DN to make a special item for. Or I guess for the DN's pet skeleton. (part of the variant).

[masterjoda99]

Out of curiosity, do you have any restrictions on player character classes? I've bandied about doing a zelda campaign from time to time, and I always wonder if certain classes should be included. Granted, I play Pathfinder, so there's some classes in that game not in 3.5 and vice versa, but still a valid concern, methinks.

[Alex1983]

In the game I'm running, the pc's are a rogue, 2 rangers, and a druid, all level 1, 3 of them are newbies. The first dungeon in the legend of zelda isn't too complicated though, there are a couple of moving blocks, secret doors, keys that appear when the monsters are defeated, some blade traps, some water canals through some of the rooms and that's pretty much it. I adapted it by changing the bomb doors for secret doors, using similar D&D monsters, and adding a trap. I'll use the idea of a weak enemy attacking while they have to solve the puzzle too, probably a skeleton which reassembles and attacks again after going down for a couple of rounds. I don't know whether it will be the funnest dungeon in the world (first time I DM a D&D game), but I played the NES games so much that it's easy for me to imagine the place and to me it seemed like fun to try them in a D&D tabletop game.

[lytokk]

Out of curiosity, do you have any restrictions on player character classes? I've bandied about doing a zelda campaign from time to time, and I always wonder if certain classes should be included. Granted, I play Pathfinder, so there's some classes in that game not in 3.5 and vice versa, but still a valid concern, methinks.

as far as 3.5 goes, I don't really see why any class would have to be restricted. Maybe wizard. Perhaps the lockpicking skill as well. Though, that can be modified to not have locked doors in empty rooms. Flight could be one of those things that would break a Zelda dungeon also, but there's always wind vortexes, vortices...

[goto124]

I'm not really sure how to implement 'kill this dude to get the key' when the players think murdering guards is evil. Make all the 'guards' monstrous monsters?

And a problem with tabletop games based off video games? Railroading. I've fallen for this trap before, and I would like some tips on how to avoid it.

In video games, a lot of off-the-wall actions are blocked simply due to the computer not recognising it. In tabletops, the DM will have to say 'you can't do that' to the players' face, and it's no good...

[Coidzor]

I'm not really sure how to implement 'kill this dude to get the key' when the players think murdering guards is evil. Make all the 'guards' monstrous monsters?

That is typically how it's handled in Zelda, yeah.

[atemu1234]

I'm not really sure how to implement 'kill this dude to get the key' when the players think murdering guards is evil. Make all the 'guards' monstrous monsters?

And a problem with tabletop games based off video games? Railroading. I've fallen for this trap before, and I would like some tips on how to avoid it.

In video games, a lot of off-the-wall actions are blocked simply due to the computer not recognising it. In tabletops, the DM will have to say 'you can't do that' to the players' face, and it's no good...

Or allow it, but alter the dungeon to make it work.

[lytokk]

I'm not really sure how to implement 'kill this dude to get the key' when the players think murdering guards is evil. Make all the 'guards' monstrous monsters?

And a problem with tabletop games based off video games? Railroading. I've fallen for this trap before, and I would like some tips on how to avoid it.

In video games, a lot of off-the-wall actions are blocked simply due to the computer not recognising it. In tabletops, the DM will have to say 'you can't do that' to the players' face, and it's no good...

You could always have the guards be as bloodthirsty as possible. Or, let players do subdual damage with no penalty. In OoT you could shoot Gerudo guards in the head with an arrow and it only knocked them out. Alternatively, there's always dplomancy and sleight of hand checks.

Railroading is pretty easy to avoid when players don't think about busting down cave walls. That and the players never know if the wall is load bearing. Granted there's going to be other instances, but for an introductory game of D&D, I don't imagine much will be a problem.