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View Full Version : Pathfinder the Bladelord, a PoW take on the Mo9



stack
2015-03-27, 03:17 PM
I have always been intrigued by the Master of Nine from Tome of Battle, but the entry to the lass is difficult and the class is short. On top of this, I primarily play Pathfinder and am quite enamored with Path of War from Dreamscarred Press. Therefore, I tried my hand and adapting the concept to the newer system. Please tell me what you think.

the Bladelord (https://docs.google.com/document/d/11bRzO7PC-aPtrmaXJWFNYyBj25KtnJKtvfWWt421jSw/edit?usp=sharing)

I am quite open to suggestions for further techniques.

Changelog:

Feat Prerequisite changed from Discipline Focus to weapon group adaptation to reflect focus on discipline versatility. Thanks Keledrath.

Clarification for mystic granted maneuvers:
If the bladelord has a number of maneuvers granted, such as if advancing the mystic’s maneuvers, the number of granted maneuvers increases at every second level of bladelord in which the additional maneuvers known and readied are applied to the initiating of the class that gives granted maneuvers.

New Technique:
Combat Technique: the bladelord gains one combat feat for which he qualifies. This technique may be taken multiple times. (pretty much filler)

Added @ 1st level:

Training: The bladelord continues to advance his understanding of the abilities taught him in his early training. At 1st level, select two abilities from the following list:

Trained Aegis: bladelord levels stack with warder levels, or levels in any other class that grants the aegis class feature, for determining the effect of the aegis class feature. The bladelord must have the aegis class feature to select this technique.

Trained Armiger: bladelord levels stack with warder levels, or levels in any other class that grants the armiger’s mark class feature, for determining the effect of the armiger’s mark class feature. The bladelord must have the armiger’s mark class feature to select this technique.

Trained Claim: bladelord levels stack with harbinger levels, or levels in any other class that grants the dark claim class feature, for determining the range and duration of the dark claim class feature. The bladelord must have the dark claim class feature to select this technique.

Trained Collective: bladelord levels stack with zealot levels, or levels in any other class that grants the collective class feature, for determining the effect of the collective class feature. The bladelord must have the collective class feature to select this technique.

Trained Combatant: the bladelord gains a combat feat for which he qualifies. This technique may be taken more than once.

Trained Companion: bladelord levels stack with levels in any class that grants an animal companion or mount for determining the bladelord’s effective druid level. The bladelord must have an animal companion to select this technique.

Trained Ki: bladelord levels stack with stalker levels, or levels in any other class that grants the ki pool class feature, for determining the size of the bladelord’s ki pool. The bladelord must have the ki pool class feature to select this technique.

Trained Mystic: bladelord levels stack with mystic levels, for determining the maximum capacity of the bladelord’s animus pool, for the level of glyphs available, and the range and save DC’s of his glyphs. The bladelord must have the animus class feature to select this technique.

Trained Presence: bladelord levels stack with warlord levels, or levels in any other class that grants the tactical presence class feature, for determining the tactical presence
s available. The bladelord must have the tactical presence class feature to select this technique.

Trained Stalker: bladelord levels stack with stalker levels, for determining effective stalker level for the purpose of qualifying for stalker arts. The bladelord must have the stalker arts class feature to select this technique.

Trained Zealot: bladelord levels stack with zealot levels, for determining effective zealot level for the purposes convictions and zeal. The bladelord must have the convictions and zeal class features to select this technique.

FEAT:
Extra Technique
Prerequisite: Techniques class feature
Benefit: You may select an additional technique for which you qualify. This feat may be taken more than once.

Naoki00_
2015-03-27, 07:29 PM
After having done just a quick look over it I think it look like a cool class. I'm a big fan of maneuvers but I haven't really taken a long look at the pathfinder version of them.

Have you play tested it much? Insightful Strikes makes me think you'd have a lot of lower level maneuvers than higher leveled ones so I'm unsure if it would be worth it to use, but this is going on 3.5 and the way it handled them.

stack
2015-03-27, 11:18 PM
Zero play testing, this is pretty much my first draft. All my gaming is PBP, so getting a home few class accepted and getting real playtime would be difficult.

Vhaidara
2015-03-28, 03:51 PM
Looks good, except that I think the prereq is a bit harsh. Single classed Swordsage could enter MoN, but no PoW class has access to more than 5 disciplines

Also, Discipline Focus seems very out of place. The idea behind this is that you are mastering all of the disciplines, but you have a focus? I would actually make the prereq Weapon Group Adaptation (you have a group of weapons that you have mastered all combat forms with)

stack
2015-03-28, 06:29 PM
Compared to MoN, the prereqs are cake; it doesn't require fifty feats. Point taken on discipline focus though. Note that I did include provision for switching it on a regular basis. Your suggestion is good.

As for number of disciplines, I was sure advanced study let you go off list. Oops. Need a feat to grant additional discipline access...have to write one up. -edited for stupid

Vhaidara
2015-03-28, 06:56 PM
I meant the disciplines prereq specifically, the rest are fine

Thealtruistorc
2015-03-28, 10:35 PM
Melikes, a lot. However there are a couple things I would change.

First of all, I would go D10 over D8. This class doesn't receive many of the powerful abilities that warrant the Harbinger, Mystic, and Stalker having D8 hit die, and D10 seems to be the standard power level for flexible maneuver PrCs (Dragon Fury, Umbral Blade)

Second, you seem to make the implication that this is meant for Martial combination builds, so I suggest making a few more techniques tailored to that purpose. Maybe have one that combines initiator levels, or enables you to use maneuver recovery method X to recover maneuvers from class Y (heck, make the first one a class feature).

Keep up the good work.

stack
2015-03-29, 01:14 PM
I had actually just thought of adding techniques to advance class abilities, need to do some work to balance it out. I'll add them when I get them figured out.

The reason I went with medium BAB and lowish HD is the shear number of maneuvers you have available. Seriously, its a lot. If you work at it, you can have a pile of 9nths, which concerns me balance-wise.

Assume this is a feat for qualifying purposes"
Expansive Training
Prerequisite - Martial Disciple level 1
Benefit: choose a martial discipline. You gain access to that discipline and one maneuver of a level you qualify for from that discipline.

Elricaltovilla
2015-03-29, 01:27 PM
For the record, Advanced Study does let you pick up maneuvers off your normal list (one at at time, instead of two). I'd still recommend knocking it down to 5 disciplines, or even 4. It quickly becomes very difficult to manage your maneuvers known/readied once you start picking from more than 3 disciplines, especially for the poor Warder.

stack
2015-03-29, 07:31 PM
For the record, Advanced Study does let you pick up maneuvers off your normal list (one at at time, instead of two). I'd still recommend knocking it down to 5 disciplines, or even 4. It quickly becomes very difficult to manage your maneuvers known/readied once you start picking from more than 3 disciplines, especially for the poor Warder.

Feedback from one of the writers, thanks.

Looks like I only read half of advanced study when I checked it. I blame my phone. Stupidity above crossed out.

I'm torn a bit, since the point of requiring 6 was that you had to do something to qualify for the class, either multiclassing or taking advanced study. I don't want it to be onerous, of course. A 5th level warder with advanced study would know 9 maneuvers, with one chance to trade up, so 5 first, 2 2nd, and 1 3rd, with one more of 2nd from advanced study (since 3rds have a pre-req). If you spread your level ones out, you can get in easily enough.

As for later on, the entire purpose of the class is to give the opportunity for taking a wide range of disciplines rather than focusing on only a few. If picking from more than three disciplines is too difficult in practice, and it may be, I don't have the experience to say, then there isn't much point in the class.

So, no concerns about the strength of the techniques or the glut of maneuvers available? I expected those to be the biggest sticking points and was all prepared to argue about how you only get so many actions in combat anyway.

Thealtruistorc
2015-03-29, 11:28 PM
So, no concerns about the strength of the techniques or the glut of maneuvers available? I expected those to be the biggest sticking points and was all prepared to argue about how you only get so many actions in combat anyway.

The stuff here is nothing compared to what the Umbral Blade ends up doing (seriously, look over that Prc again). Again, given the power levels established for the other PoW prestige classes this one deserves to have the fundamentals (BAB and HD) bumped up a bit.

stack
2015-03-30, 08:58 AM
Changelog:

Feat Prerequisite changed from Discipline Focus to weapon group adaptation to reflect focus on discipline versatility. Thanks Keledrath.

Clarification for mystic granted maneuvers:
If the bladelord has a number of maneuvers granted, such as if advancing the mystic’s maneuvers, the number of granted maneuvers increases at every second level of bladelord in which the additional maneuvers known and readied are applied to the initiating of the class that gives granted maneuvers.

New Technique:
Combat Technique: the bladelord gains one combat feat for which he qualifies. This technique may be taken multiple times. (pretty much filler)

Added @ 1st level:

Training: The bladelord continues to advance his understanding of the abilities taught him in his early training. At 1st level, select two abilities from the following list:

Trained Aegis: bladelord levels stack with warder levels, or levels in any other class that grants the aegis class feature, for determining the effect of the aegis class feature. The bladelord must have the aegis class feature to select this technique.

Trained Armiger: bladelord levels stack with warder levels, or levels in any other class that grants the armiger’s mark class feature, for determining the effect of the armiger’s mark class feature. The bladelord must have the armiger’s mark class feature to select this technique.

Trained Claim: bladelord levels stack with harbinger levels, or levels in any other class that grants the dark claim class feature, for determining the range and duration of the dark claim class feature. The bladelord must have the dark claim class feature to select this technique.

Trained Collective: bladelord levels stack with zealot levels, or levels in any other class that grants the collective class feature, for determining the effect of the collective class feature. The bladelord must have the collective class feature to select this technique.

Trained Combatant: the bladelord gains a combat feat for which he qualifies. This technique may be taken more than once.

Trained Companion: bladelord levels stack with levels in any class that grants an animal companion or mount for determining the bladelord’s effective druid level. The bladelord must have an animal companion to select this technique.

Trained Ki: bladelord levels stack with stalker levels, or levels in any other class that grants the ki pool class feature, for determining the size of the bladelord’s ki pool. The bladelord must have the ki pool class feature to select this technique.

Trained Mystic: bladelord levels stack with mystic levels, for determining the maximum capacity of the bladelord’s animus pool, for the level of glyphs available, and the range and save DC’s of his glyphs. The bladelord must have the animus class feature to select this technique.

Trained Presence: bladelord levels stack with warlord levels, or levels in any other class that grants the tactical presence class feature, for determining the tactical presence
s available. The bladelord must have the tactical presence class feature to select this technique.

Trained Stalker: bladelord levels stack with stalker levels, for determining effective stalker level for the purpose of qualifying for stalker arts. The bladelord must have the stalker arts class feature to select this technique.

Trained Zealot: bladelord levels stack with zealot levels, for determining effective zealot level for the purposes convictions and zeal. The bladelord must have the convictions and zeal class features to select this technique.

With the ability to advance iconic abilities in addition to the new features, I have a hard time seeing the class as weak relative to other options. Being able to double-up on maneuvers is powerful, especially with the unlimited use for boosts and counters. You have plenty of maneuvers to fuel these abilities.

Should dual strikes work the same way as the others? I was afraid that would be too strong while also making the stalker's dual strike seem weak.

FEAT:
Extra Technique
Prerequisite: Techniques class feature
Benefit: You may select an additional technique for which you qualify. This feat may be taken more than once.

stack
2015-03-30, 10:59 AM
Okay, changed things around so that you can basically select two class features to advance from your base class. I thought this worked out nicely, giving options for both single-classed entries and multi-class, without giving the option to take a bunch of base classes and benefit unduly from all their features. I'll make one for the pharoah when it is further along. The animal companion one works for the ranger, should someone go that route. Not sure about trying to get one for every archetype, though I'm open to suggestions on that score.

Would there be any drawback to having a technique for increasing initiator level for multi-class entrants? Obviously it would be capped at character level. Not sure if there is a need beyond the +2 trait.


After having done just a quick look over it I think it look like a cool class. I'm a big fan of maneuvers but I haven't really taken a long look at the pathfinder version of them.

Have you play tested it much? Insightful Strikes makes me think you'd have a lot of lower level maneuvers than higher leveled ones so I'm unsure if it would be worth it to use, but this is going on 3.5 and the way it handled them.
You will have a lot of maneuvers, which level they are will depend on when you take the class. You could easily spread your levels around a bit to get a range of maneuver levels or take them late and pile on the high level maneuvers. With the number of maneuvers available, meeting pre-reqs shouldn't be too difficult. I wanted something to really encourage being diverse, which I feel is the core of the class.