Rich Parents Trait: Do your worst!

[Dysart]

So I've been casually reading through some of the more interesting guides for Pathfinder classes and even the Traits guide (which is a bit out of date).

So 900gp seems pretty steep, that's likely more than a full party of 4 starts with.
So my challenge is this, what could this 900gp equate to?

The best I could come up with off the top of my head was for a Composite Longbow (up to +5).

Any better ideas/obscure magic items that really push a level 1 character that little bit stronger?

[Vizzerdrix]

If 3.5 is acceptable, 9 jars of shapesand. 18 if you are allowed to make them yourself.

[Powerdork]

Snapleaf. 750 gp, immediate-action feather fall + invisibility. Amazing item, since it's not a consumable. Perfect if you have no other use for your swifts as a sneak.

yeah yeah paizo.com/products/btpy8tmc/discuss&page=12?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Ultimate-Equipment#564 "SKR says otherwise" but they could have put out a FAQ or something

[avr]

Caltrop beads (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Caltrop%20Bead Iron) are surprisingly good value.

[Forrestfire]

#GloriousTreeTokenMasterRace (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/feather-token/tree-token)

More seriously, I'd probably end up using the trait to buy a masterwork weapon, a Best Clothes Sleeves of Many Garments (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/sleeves-of-many-garments), and some other small items like masterwork armor and stuff. Also, the Chosen Child (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/chosen-child-po-li) trait is better, since it increases wealth by 900 instead of to 900.

With Chosen Child, I'd buy a masterwork weapon, the Sleeves, and a Tree Token, for a total of 900gp on extra items, and then use my normal starting gold on the normal starting stuff.

[Dysart]

Snapleaf. 750 gp, immediate-action feather fall + invisibility. Amazing item, since it's not a consumable. Perfect if you have no other use for your swifts as a sneak.


Wait, that's reusable? If so I'm so having that.


Caltrop beads (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Caltrop%20Bead Iron) are surprisingly good value.

Yes, yes they are! Good suggestion!



More seriously, I'd probably end up using the trait to buy a masterwork weapon, a Best Clothes Sleeves of Many Garments (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/sleeves-of-many-garments), and some other small items like masterwork armor and stuff. Also, the Chosen Child (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/chosen-child-po-li) trait is better, since it increases wealth by 900 instead of to 900.

With Chosen Child, I'd buy a masterwork weapon, the Sleeves, and a Tree Token, for a total of 900gp on extra items, and then use my normal starting gold on the normal starting stuff.

Ah, yes it is! I was sure there was a better trait but couldn't find one. That's the one I remember seeing once!

It's looking like I'm going to do very similar to what you've said.

[Forrestfire]

Snapleaf is technically reuseable, because they accidentally left out the clause making it a consumable. The intent is mostly clear from the price point and suggested use, and on the PF forums, they clarified the RAI (however, per the Mounted Combat FAQ, forum posts aren't 'official' anymore, so that's up to your DM).

I wouldn't use it, myself, because it's the sort of rules break that makes me sigh, mentally fix it, and move on. Whatever works for your group though.

[Dysart]

Snapleaf is technically reuseable, because they accidentally left out the clause making it a consumable. The intent is mostly clear from the price point and suggested use, and on the PF forums, they clarified the RAI (however, per the Mounted Combat FAQ, forum posts aren't 'official' anymore, so that's up to your DM).

I wouldn't use it, myself, because it's the sort of rules break that makes me sigh, mentally fix it, and move on. Whatever works for your group though.

As it's the Mrs running it and it's her first chance DMing I'll probably pass on any dubious rules items.

[The Random NPC]

...(however, per the Mounted Combat FAQ, forum posts aren't 'official' anymore, so that's up to your DM).
...

Wait, when did that happen?

[Spore]

Any better ideas/obscure magic items that really push a level 1 character that little bit stronger?

1) Use your parent's influential status to support you with further ressources along the road. If they give 900 gp to a 1st level character, how much wealth will they throw at a 9th level wizard? Yes, _ALIVE_ rich parents is a very decent trait to milk on the long run.

2) For the purposes of this exercise I would stick to a variety of nonmagical "adventuring gear" that gives you bonusses in every situation:

3) Optimizing Stealth in order to steal the hoard of [insert random adult dragon]:
11 Goblin (16 serpentine eidolon Dex, +8 from racials)
+8 Skilled Evolution (Synthesist)
+2 Masterwork Tools
+20 Potion of Invisibility
+3 Skill Focus (Stealth)
+1 rank
+3 class skill
+1 trait bonus
___________________
+49 Stealth

As long as you're not stealing from a dragon that has "See Invisibility" you are golden. Now we just need a way to deal with blindsense because if your DM wants to challenge you the dragon IS somewhere nearby.

[Psyren]

Masterwork Half-Plate is a good choice for the heavy-armor using classes.


Snapleaf. 750 gp, immediate-action feather fall + invisibility. Amazing item, since it's not a consumable. Perfect if you have no other use for your swifts as a sneak.

yeah yeah paizo.com/products/btpy8tmc/discuss&page=12?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Ultimate-Equipment#564 "SKR says otherwise" but they could have put out a FAQ or something

They did. (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fq#v5748eaic9qy9)

[grarrrg]

They did. (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fq#v5748eaic9qy9)

While I agree with you on the single use, I must point out that that FAQ is located on the "Pathfinder Society" page and NOT on the (much more appropriate) "Ultimate Equipment" page.
Ergo, unless you are playing Society, there is still argument that it is unlimited use.

There are actually quite a few things on the "Society FAQ" that should be elsewhere. Like the Deaf Oracle (paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fq#v5748eaic9os8) ruling. You'd think THAT would be important enough to be in Advanced Player's Guide FAQ, but it is not.

[icefractal]

Biggest impact at 1st level? Trained animals.

If you want to be an ass, then 45 Stirges (20 ea).

If you want to be a semi-ass, then 6 Riding Dogs (150 ea).

If you want something that doesn't screw up the game too much, and is useful for several levels, Trained Dire Riding Bat, 450 gp. Or, Trained Riding Gecko, 400 gp.

Want something powerful but that will fit in tight dungeons? One or more Pseudodragons (200 ea).

If you want maximum style points, albeit less practicality, then round up an additional 100 gp and buy an Elephant (1000 gp).


However, the mention of Wizard brings up the real money cheese, much more than Rich Parents:
1) Be a Wizard.
2) As your bonded item, pick a weapon. Specifically, a double-barreled shotgun. Which will be masterwork too.
3) Sell it for 3650. Maybe buy a Wooly Mammoth or something.
4) Replace it with a cheaper bonded item with the money you have left over. Doesn't have to be the same type.
5) Bonus cheese - assert that siege weapons are weapons, pick a Heavy Bombard instead so that it sells for 8150.

[Yanisa]

#GloriousTreeTokenMasterRace (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/feather-token/tree-token)

More seriously, I'd probably end up using the trait to buy a masterwork weapon, a Best Clothes Sleeves of Many Garments (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/sleeves-of-many-garments), and some other small items like masterwork armor and stuff. Also, the Chosen Child (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/chosen-child-po-li) trait is better, since it increases wealth by 900 instead of to 900.

With Chosen Child, I'd buy a masterwork weapon, the Sleeves, and a Tree Token, for a total of 900gp on extra items, and then use my normal starting gold on the normal starting stuff.

You can also combine the traits for 1800 gp starting gold. :smalltongue:

[Kurald Galain]

Snapleaf. 750 gp, immediate-action feather fall + invisibility. Amazing item, since it's not a consumable. Perfect if you have no other use for your swifts as a sneak.

It's a consumable. Says so in the FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fq#v5748eaic9qy9).

[Elderand]

Of course the best use for rich parent traits is this

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/50/50d978cf7645e751ec5dd59c1dad12e0ca558fddd5345eb445 89cb1e4b4fb14f.jpg

[Powerdork]

It's a consumable. Says so in the FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fq#v5748eaic9qy9).

Re-read the thread, re-read the page you found that on, and cry at Paizo's dumb placement of rulings. I couldn't find a FAQ on a topic if I tried, they're so bad at website design.

[Spore]

Of course the best use for rich parent traits is this

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/50/50d978cf7645e751ec5dd59c1dad12e0ca558fddd5345eb445 89cb1e4b4fb14f.jpg

900 gp isn't exactly rich.

https://xput.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/batman-cosplay.jpg

[grarrrg]

900 gp isn't exactly rich.

wut

Laughed so hard I couldn't breathe for a bit.

[Psyren]

While I agree with you on the single use, I must point out that that FAQ is located on the "Pathfinder Society" page and NOT on the (much more appropriate) "Ultimate Equipment" page.
Ergo, unless you are playing Society, there is still argument that it is unlimited use.

There are actually quite a few things on the "Society FAQ" that should be elsewhere. Like the Deaf Oracle (paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fq#v5748eaic9os8) ruling. You'd think THAT would be important enough to be in Advanced Player's Guide FAQ, but it is not.

Oh I agree, it should be listed under UE - but official FAQ is official FAQ.



4) Replace it with a cheaper bonded item with the money you have left over. Doesn't have to be the same type.


You have to pay the same cost as the one you sold though, making this exercise pointless.

"If the object of an arcane bond is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per wizard level plus the cost of the masterwork item."

In fact, you'll actually lose money since you could only sell your original item for half price, but have to pay full price + masterwork + 200gp/level to replace it. (Either that, or eat spell failure for the rest of your career.)

[Ilorin Lorati]

Really, the worst would be to pair it with Chosen Child (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/chosen-child-po-li) and start with 1800 gold (unless your DM disallows it).

Then you could legitimately start off with a few magic items and generally be badass.

Edit:


"If the object of an arcane bond is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per wizard level plus the cost of the masterwork item."

He means to replace it with a sword, not a shotgun.

[Tvtyrant]

If you look at the goods and services, animal section (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/animals-animal-gear), you will find that you can buy mounts and critters much higher CR than what you are fighting. The top tiers for this are the combat trained riding dire bat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/bat/bat-dire), the dire vulture (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/vulture/vulture-giant), the giant skunk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/skunk/skunk-giant) and the brown bear (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/bear/brown-grizzly-bear). I would probably take the riding bat or two, since they are already trained and are potent mounts.

For tricks you can buy a number of skunks, which are basically better wizards at this level. That spray ability is killer, DC 15 or be shut out for 1d6 rounds and then sickened for another 1d6.


Edit Note: Apparently Pathfinder animals are much less abusable than 3.5s were. A Wartrained Tiger would cost you 550 in 3.5, and would destroy a level 1 party...

[Psyren]

He means to replace it with a sword, not a shotgun.

I know what he meant - you still have to pay the cost of the thing you're replacing ("the masterwork item.")

[icefractal]

I know what he meant - you still have to pay the cost of the thing you're replacing ("the masterwork item.")On re-reading the bonded item text, it's not clear whether you're stuck with a particular type of item or can switch items whenever you need to repair one. Even if that's the case though ...

A wizard can designate an existing magic item as his bonded item. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic item retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a bonded item.So buy the cheapest magic item you can get that fits the criteria (+1 Shuriken if allowed, otherwise Cantrip Wand) and still come out ahead. Not that I'd recommend actually doing this in a game! :smallbiggrin:

If you did have to replace it at full price, that's an interesting trade-off. My feeling is that it would still be a good move. At 1st-2nd level, you use your animals for combat while you stand in the background and cheer (you can still cast spells out of combat, by trying a few times). A flock of pseudodragons is really strong for that level. Before the time the animals start losing effectiveness, you'll have enough gold to buy a replacement shotgun. Still would break most campaigns enough that the DM throws the book at you.

[Psyren]

On re-reading the bonded item text, it's not clear whether you're stuck with a particular type of item or can switch items whenever you need to repair one. Even if that's the case though ...
So buy the cheapest magic item you can get that fits the criteria (+1 Shuriken if allowed, otherwise Cantrip Wand) and still come out ahead. Not that I'd recommend actually doing this in a game! :smallbiggrin:

That won't work either. From your own quote: "This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic item retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a bonded item." So even if you switch to a cheap magic item, you still have to pay the full cost of the item you're replacing - you won't save any money. And of course, starting with the cheaper item won't help either, since selling your cheapo bonded item won't get you any cash, and you can't start with a magic item in any event.

Basically, your only hope if you sell your bonded item is to not replace it, which more or less shuts off your spellcasting for the first several levels. It would take a lot of gold to offset a disadvantage like that.


As if all those disadvantages weren't enough, let's talk about the specific vector of this strategy, the shotgun. The shotgun is an Advanced gun, which must specifically be allowed by the GM in order to exist:


This section presents an anachronistic collection of hand-held black powder weapons. Most of them are single-shot muzzle-loaders with highly inefficient triggering mechanisms—traditional sword and sorcery firearms. More advanced firearms are also presented for those brave enough to mix their fantasy with a technology much closer to that of the Old West than the slow and unstable weapons that gave musketeers their name. If you are interested in letting such weapons in your game, do so with the following warning: Advanced guns can substantially change the assumptions of your game world, in the same way that they changed the face of warfare in the real world. If you like your fantasy to be of the more traditional variety, stand clear. Or, better yet, run for cover.

"Letting them in the game" implies they are not there to begin with.

[Ilorin Lorati]

By my reading it sounds like it's talking about the cost of the item you're getting to replace.

[Flickerdart]

1) Use your parent's influential status to support you with further ressources along the road. If they give 900 gp to a 1st level character, how much wealth will they throw at a 9th level wizard?
900gp. That's a lot in non-adventurer money, and I have difficulty seeing parents refuse to give their kid as much as they can to help them on their adventure. Giving more money to a higher-level character would be like giving your college-bound son $9000, but once he gets a PhD and wins a Nobel Prize, giving him hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Lord Vukodlak]

You can also combine the traits for 1800 gp starting gold. :smalltongue:

Actually you can't traits don't stack.

[Platymus Pus]

Actually you can't traits don't stack.

One says wealth the other says money, but that said what rule does that pertain to with money?

[Kurald Galain]

Basically, your only hope if you sell your bonded item is to not replace it, which more or less shuts off your spellcasting for the first several levels. It would take a lot of gold to offset a disadvantage like that.

It might work if you don't actually want to play a wizard (or sorc or arcy or whatever else has bonded items), but dipping it one level for the SLAs and +2 to will save. And the money.

[grarrrg]

but official FAQ is official FAQ.

While I want to agree with you, there are a fair number of rulings on the Society FAQ page that should only apply to Society games, but are not worded as such. These 'society only' FAQs are normally disregarded for 'home' games. Without any clear distinction which FAQ's apply to Society and which don't, ALL the posts on that page become questionable.

It's also a fairly nonsensical place for some of those rulings.
Can Deathwatch see Invisible people? I dunno, it's in the Core book, lets check the Core FAQ...nope nothing here.
How do Deaf Oracles Communicate? I dunno, APG, lets check the APG FAQ...nope nothing here.

There is also at least one example where the same question is on both the Society page, and the appropriate book page (which makes LOADS more sense)
Wildblooded + Crossblooded being one of them (of course, they were posted ~2 months apart from each other, which comes with certain, sad, implications...).

Bad editing/proofing/whathaveyou...reminds me of the ACG.

[Psyren]

While I want to agree with you, there are a fair number of rulings on the Society FAQ page that should only apply to Society games, but are not worded as such. These 'society only' FAQs are normally disregarded for 'home' games. Without any clear distinction which FAQ's apply to Society and which don't, ALL the posts on that page become questionable.

It's also a fairly nonsensical place for some of those rulings.
Can Deathwatch see Invisible people? I dunno, it's in the Core book, lets check the Core FAQ...nope nothing here.
How do Deaf Oracles Communicate? I dunno, APG, lets check the APG FAQ...nope nothing here.

There is also at least one example where the same question is on both the Society page, and the appropriate book page (which makes LOADS more sense)
Wildblooded + Crossblooded being one of them (of course, they were posted ~2 months apart from each other, which comes with certain, sad, implications...).

Bad editing/proofing/whathaveyou...reminds me of the ACG.

Google search with "site:paizo.com/paizo/faq" checks all of the sub-areas at once. Again, I get your point and agree it should be in the UE area, but it's not hard to find even so.

[Ilorin Lorati]

It might work if you don't actually want to play a wizard (or sorc or arcy or whatever else has bonded items), but dipping it one level for the SLAs and +2 to will save. And the money.

Especially the gold, considering retraining only costs 70 gold at level 1. Good luck finding a DM that'll allow that use though, but since I don't believe retraining is framed as an optional rule it's probably RAW.