Trying to Come up withan idea of an Oathless Paladin Need help

[tarlison]

I was thinking if we could design a non neccesarily evil variant of an Oath Breaker .... i was thinking this type might be called Ronin, Oath of the Wanderer, The Fallen, the Oathless or maybe all of the above although it would be understandable if other Paladins simple calls them Oathbreakers too .I was thinking thier powers and spells might be more on weapon combat enchamcement and mobility got an idea on the spells he gonna have give me some suggestiom these are the spells im thinking of :
Paladin Level Spells
3rd Expditious retreat, Heroism
5th Magic Weapon,Misty Step
9th Haste, Elemental Weapon
13th Dimension Door,Freedom of Movement
17th Passwall, Destructive Smite

if you have any suggestiom or someway to complete this paladin type please post it here

[Grand Warchief]

I was thinking if we could design a non neccesarily evil variant of an Oath Breaker .... i was thinking this type might be called Ronin, Oath of the Wanderer, The Fallen, the Oathless or maybe all of the above although it would be understandable if other Paladins simple calls them Oathbreakers too .I was thinking thier powers and spells might be more on weapon combat enchamcement and mobility got an idea on the spells he gonna have give me some suggestiom these are the spells im thinking of :
Paladin Level Spells
3rd Expditious retreat, Heroism
5th Magic Weapon,Misty Step
9th Haste, Elemental Weapon
13th Dimension Door,Freedom of Movement
17th Passwall, Destructive Smite

if you have any suggestiom or someway to complete this paladin type please post it here

The problem you have is that a Paladin without his oaths has no where to get his powers from. He has no direction and no guidance. He is essentially a fighter. What you need to do is figure out the fluff behind what you want before you try and figure out the mechanics.

Where does he get his powers?
What would cause him to lose his powers?
Who does he fight for?
What are his morals? His ideals? His passions?

Once you have these and other questions answered, you can start figuring out the mechanics. Sorry if my answer isn't what you were looking for, I just like to really fluff out everything when I homebrew up a new class. I spent months when I created a Saiyan for 3.5.

[tarlison]

The problem you have is that a Paladin without his oaths has no where to get his powers from. He has no direction and no guidance. He is essentially a fighter. What you need to do is figure out the fluff behind what you want before you try and figure out the mechanics.

Where does he get his powers?
What would cause him to lose his powers?
Who does he fight for?
What are his morals? His ideals? His passions?

Once you have these and other questions answered, you can start figuring out the mechanics. Sorry if my answer isn't what you were looking for, I just like to really fluff out everything when I homebrew up a new class. I spent months when I created a Saiyan for 3.5.

I was more on thinking they gain their powers by sear will tapping on the divine flow of the universe , some might might really know how they did it but by force of pepersonality they get to access the divine flows that power other divine class, they might not be concentrating on a single divine flow but rather multiple ones giving them the freedom to not follow a particular oath but rather their wim ...they might be similar to the mystic of dragonlance or the Oracle of pathfinder

[Wolfsraine]

I was more on thinking they gain their powers by sear will tapping on the divine flow of the universe , some might might really know how they did it but by force of pepersonality they get to access the divine flows that power other divine class, they might not be concentrating on a single divine flow but rather multiple ones giving them the freedom to not follow a particular oath but rather their wim ...they might be similar to the mystic of dragonlance or the Oracle of pathfinder

So... a cleric?

[tarlison]

More on line sort of a ronin version of a paladin but not evil enough to be an Oath Breaker , a fallen paladin who now uses his power for his own reasons his power are more on mobility since paladins like this is more likely be wanderers because they might be likely either hunted by thier own order or just don't feel they belong anywhere or just plain looking for a purpose , their weapon or weapon combat enhancing powers so when they fight they won't likely attract attention and. Their wandering often more than not ends up in dangers

[tarlison]

More or less these are paladin who have lost their purpose or just don't believe in thier oath anymore from one reason to another

[Flashy]

I have to agree with the people above, this concept has confusing fluff. Who is giving this (essentially fallen) paladin her powers? True Neutral doesn't work terribly well as the basis for a class founded in championing ideals.

If a player came to me with this concept I'd probably say that this should just be represented as a fighter or a cleric.

[Lord Raziere]

More or less these are paladin who have lost their purpose or just don't believe in thier oath anymore from one reason to another

"Paladin" and "doesn't believe in their oath anymore" are mutually exclusive things. Paladins are the Oath. They are nothing without them.

try Fighter with the Acolyte Background.

[tarlison]

"Paladin" and "doesn't believe in their oath anymore" are mutually exclusive things. Paladins are the Oath. They are nothing without them.

try Fighter with the Acolyte Background.
I was more on somebody who can still regained his paladin ship without much fuss
:):well its just a concept :) there might be other ways but its a concept :) its channel divinity will look more skill than magic the concept is just what a ronin paladin might look like a wanderer maybe looking for a new path that's it simply making him a fighter you have to revamp the whole character its something that won't disrupt the game flow

[Shining Wrath]

To play off the idea of a Ronin, the Paladin realizes that the entity to which he swore his original oath is no longer capable of holding the oath; either they have died, or they have "fallen" and are no longer worthy.

Fortunately, in a D&D world there would be Powers who specialized in this sort of situation. Deities of pure honor, perhaps, who grant an honorable Paladin power after their former lord's disgrace; or Fey who admire the Paladin's courage and style and wish to set them free to act according to their conscience.

A Vengeance Paladin, BTW, doesn't have an oath-holder as such. I don't see a great deal of daylight between the Vengeance Oath and the Ronin lack of oath.

[Rad Mage]

I was more on somebody who can still regained his paladin ship without much fuss
:):well its just a concept :) there might be other ways but its a concept :) its channel divinity will look more skill than magic the concept is just what a ronin paladin might look like a wanderer maybe looking for a new path that's it simply making him a fighter you have to revamp the whole character its something that won't disrupt the game flow

Sounds like you're looking for a Greyguard. Start there, should be an easy enough refluf from there.

[Wartex1]

Or, instead of a truly "Oathless" Paladin, you could have an ex-Oath Paladin who has a separate vow to not follow an extreme Oath again.

[mephnick]

I don't think it's a big deal. 5e has completely removed the difference between arcane and divine magic.

Paladins and Clerics now just tap into the forces of magic like any other caster. You aren't necessarily getting your powers from a patron any more. I don't even use religion in my games.

[tarlison]

Sounds like you're looking for a Greyguard. Start there, should be an easy enough refluf from there.
Thanks that is a great concept :)

[tarlison]

Now that's done I guess next is the descriptions or possible revamp of spells and channel divinity :)

[tarlison]

Tentative

Paladin: Grey Guards

Sometimes called ronins, oathless, wanderer, fallen, steel knights, grey knights, undecided and even sometimes Oathbreakers although they are not true oathbreakers, these paladins are not bound by any oath and can be of any alignment except evil, requirements of being a Grey Guard one must be a paladin of 3rd level with a non evil alignment, these warriors are often paladins who cannot live up their oath yet not evil enough to be an Oathbreaker, since fallen oathed paladins filled its rank they are looked downed at best treated as oathbreakers at worst. Although some follow a strong sense of honor majority become wanderers , going wherever the wind takes them and are quite whimsical. Unlike most paladin these warriors gain their divine power by sheer force of personality enabling them to tap in the flow of divine magic in the world.

Paladin Level Spells
3rd Expditious retreat, Heroism
5th Magic Weapon,Misty Step
9th Haste, Elemental Weapon
13th Dimension Door,Freedom of Movement
17th Legend Lore, Destructive Smite

Channel Divinity:
A Grey Guard Paladin of 3rd level or higher gain the following 2 channel divinity Option

Ronin Strike: When ever a grey guard successfully hit that is not a critical hit a target with a weapon attack as a free action before a damage is rolled , he may max out the weapon dice rolls ....1d8 automatically roll an 8 ...2d6 automatically roll a 12 and target gain disadvantages to attack rolls except when attacking the grey guard until the end of targets turn or until he successfully hit the Grey Guard which ever comes first.

Counter Strike: When the target attacks the grey guard within 30 feet of the grey guard , as a reaction grey may make an attack with a weapon if attacker is in range (if using crossbow or bow it must be loaded) or reach of the weapon , if the attack hit and damage the opponent and the total attack roll is greater than the Grey Guard Armor Class ...replace the Grey Guard with the attack roll for the triggering attack, and if the target miss the Grey guard, the Grey guard may teleport 20 feet to any direction he could see.

[Vogonjeltz]

More or less these are paladin who have lost their purpose or just don't believe in thier oath anymore from one reason to another

Is it really important that they have abandoned their Oath?

Why not just make a new Oath:
The Oath of the Lost Soul
The Oath of the Wanderer
The Oath of the Long Path
The Oath of the Endless Journey
The Oath of the Traveller

Fluff: This Paladin is devoted to seeking out new places, protecting those on journeys and ensuring they safely reach their destinations. Paladins who swear this oath are devoted to protecting lost travellers, and vow to remain ever on the move to find and return those who have lost their way.

Tenets of the Traveller
Road Hospitality. Always offer aid to those you meet in your travels, including sharing of campsites, no matter the personal cost.
Restlessness. Be ever on the move searching for new sights and those in need, committing to this oath means not remaining at a permanent home for longer than it takes to heal and re-supply. (DMs: Try to be flexible here, the oath is intended to reflect a character's restless nature, not to punish them).
Guide the Lost. Seek out the missing and attempt to reunite them with their loved ones.
Free Travel. Oppose those who would seek to stifle free travel, be they Men or Monsters. (DM note: This could be Bandits, Highwaymen, Monsters, or even agents of an Oppressive Kingdom).

Oath Spells

3rd - expeditious retreat, longstrider (note: heroism is already on the Paladin spell list, plus it doesn't make sense thematically).
5th - misty step, find steed
9th - create food and water, haste
13th - locate creature, dimension door
17th - teleportation circle, tree stride

The spells chosen are different to reflect the nature of the Paladin being one of a wanderer who protects fellow travellers.

Channel Divinity:
Find the True Path. You can use your Channel Divinity to find your way no matter what misleadds you. As an action you gain a second sight for one minute that reveals the truth behind illusions and grants normal vision even in magical darkness. You also have advantage on Wisdom (perception) checks to find any creature attempting to hide.
Warden of the Lost. You can use your Channel Divinity to protect all friendly creatures within 30 feet. For one minute, or until they attack another creature, all friendly creatures gain the benefits of the Sanctuary, Protection from Evil and Good, and Nondetection spells.

Aura of Travel
Starting at 7th level, you and friendly creatures within 10 feet of you have your movement speed increased by 10 feet. At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.

Unfettered Traveller
Beginning at 15th level, you are unaffected by difficult terrain and have advantage on checks to avoid petrification, restraint, paralysis, being stunned or grappled. (DMs: If no saving throw would be allowed normally, instead of granting advantage, allow a saving throw).

Master of the Twisting Paths
At 20th level you can interfere with the direction of those around you. As an action for 1 minute any creatures you designate within 30 feet of you is affected as if by maze spell. Each turn you may, as an action, add another creature to the maze. When the effect ends, all affected creatures are released.

[Wartex1]

Is it really important that they have abandoned their Oath?

Why not just make a new Oath:
The Oath of the Lost Soul
The Oath of the Wanderer
The Oath of the Long Path
The Oath of the Endless Journey
The Oath of the Traveller

Fluff: This Paladin is devoted to seeking out new places, protecting those on journeys and ensuring they safely reach their destinations. Paladins who swear this oath are devoted to protecting lost travellers, and vow to remain ever on the move to find and return those who have lost their way.

Tenets of the Traveller
Road Hospitality. Always offer aid to those you meet in your travels, including sharing of campsites, no matter the personal cost.
Restlessness. Be ever on the move searching for new sights and those in need, committing to this oath means not remaining at a permanent home for longer than it takes to heal and re-supply. (DMs: Try to be flexible here, the oath is intended to reflect a character's restless nature, not to punish them).
Guide the Lost. Seek out the missing and attempt to reunite them with their loved ones.
Free Travel. Oppose those who would seek to stifle free travel, be they Men or Monsters. (DM note: This could be Bandits, Highwaymen, Monsters, or even agents of an Oppressive Kingdom).

Oath Spells

3rd - expeditious retreat, longstrider (note: heroism is already on the Paladin spell list, plus it doesn't make sense thematically).
5th - misty step, find steed
9th - create food and water, haste
13th - locate creature, dimension door
17th - teleportation circle, tree stride

The spells chosen are different to reflect the nature of the Paladin being one of a wanderer who protects fellow travellers.

Channel Divinity:
Find the True Path. You can use your Channel Divinity to find your way no matter what misleadds you. As an action you gain a second sight for one minute that reveals the truth behind illusions and grants normal vision even in magical darkness. You also have advantage on Wisdom (perception) checks to find any creature attempting to hide.
Warden of the Lost. You can use your Channel Divinity to protect all friendly creatures within 30 feet. For one minute, or until they attack another creature, all friendly creatures gain the benefits of the Sanctuary, Protection from Evil and Good, and Nondetection spells.

Aura of Travel
Starting at 7th level, you and friendly creatures within 10 feet of you have your movement speed increased by 10 feet. At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.

Unfettered Traveller
Beginning at 15th level, you are unaffected by difficult terrain and have advantage on checks to avoid petrification, restraint, paralysis, being stunned or grappled. (DMs: If no saving throw would be allowed normally, instead of granting advantage, allow a saving throw).

Master of the Twisting Paths
At 20th level you can interfere with the direction of those around you. As an action for 1 minute any creatures you designate within 30 feet of you is affected as if by maze spell. Each turn you may, as an action, add another creature to the maze. When the effect ends, all affected creatures are released.

I think it's to give a non-evil, non-class change option for Paladins who abandon their Oath.

[tarlison]

Is it really important that they have abandoned their Oath?

Why not just make a new Oath:
The Oath of the Lost Soul
The Oath of the Wanderer
The Oath of the Long Path
The Oath of the Endless Journey
The Oath of the Traveller

Fluff: This Paladin is devoted to seeking out new places, protecting those on journeys and ensuring they safely reach their destinations. Paladins who swear this oath are devoted to protecting lost travellers, and vow to remain ever on the move to find and return those who have lost their way.

Tenets of the Traveller
Road Hospitality. Always offer aid to those you meet in your travels, including sharing of campsites, no matter the personal cost.
Restlessness. Be ever on the move searching for new sights and those in need, committing to this oath means not remaining at a permanent home for longer than it takes to heal and re-supply. (DMs: Try to be flexible here, the oath is intended to reflect a character's restless nature, not to punish them).
Guide the Lost. Seek out the missing and attempt to reunite them with their loved ones.
Free Travel. Oppose those who would seek to stifle free travel, be they Men or Monsters. (DM note: This could be Bandits, Highwaymen, Monsters, or even agents of an Oppressive Kingdom).

Oath Spells

3rd - expeditious retreat, longstrider (note: heroism is already on the Paladin spell list, plus it doesn't make sense thematically).
5th - misty step, find steed
9th - create food and water, haste
13th - locate creature, dimension door
17th - teleportation circle, tree stride

The spells chosen are different to reflect the nature of the Paladin being one of a wanderer who protects fellow travellers.

Channel Divinity:
Find the True Path. You can use your Channel Divinity to find your way no matter what misleadds you. As an action you gain a second sight for one minute that reveals the truth behind illusions and grants normal vision even in magical darkness. You also have advantage on Wisdom (perception) checks to find any creature attempting to hide.
Warden of the Lost. You can use your Channel Divinity to protect all friendly creatures within 30 feet. For one minute, or until they attack another creature, all friendly creatures gain the benefits of the Sanctuary, Protection from Evil and Good, and Nondetection spells.

Aura of Travel
Starting at 7th level, you and friendly creatures within 10 feet of you have your movement speed increased by 10 feet. At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.

Unfettered Traveller
Beginning at 15th level, you are unaffected by difficult terrain and have advantage on checks to avoid petrification, restraint, paralysis, being stunned or grappled. (DMs: If no saving throw would be allowed normally, instead of granting advantage, allow a saving throw).

Master of the Twisting Paths
At 20th level you can interfere with the direction of those around you. As an action for 1 minute any creatures you designate within 30 feet of you is affected as if by maze spell. Each turn you may, as an action, add another creature to the maze. When the effect ends, all affected creatures are released.

Although its that what I have in mind :) but its a cool design :)

[Vogonjeltz]

I think it's to give a non-evil, non-class change option for Paladins who abandon their Oath.

Fair enough, substituted fluff to account for Oath breakers: This Paladin is one who has abandoned their Oath and quests to find a new way, while assisting those who themselves are lost in the world.


Although its that what I have in mind :) but its a cool design :)

Thanks, I appreciate it.

[eastmabl]

To play off the idea of a Ronin, the Paladin realizes that the entity to which he swore his original oath is no longer capable of holding the oath; either they have died, or they have "fallen" and are no longer worthy.

Fortunately, in a D&D world there would be Powers who specialized in this sort of situation. Deities of pure honor, perhaps, who grant an honorable Paladin power after their former lord's disgrace; or Fey who admire the Paladin's courage and style and wish to set them free to act according to their conscience.

A Vengeance Paladin, BTW, doesn't have an oath-holder as such. I don't see a great deal of daylight between the Vengeance Oath and the Ronin lack of oath.

So... a warlock with an acolyte background? That's how I hear this going.

You just come up with a new pact - a Pact of Oath or something.

[tarlison]

Well not really it is meant as a bridge to s new oath

[tarlison]

Fair enough, substituted fluff to account for Oath breakers: This Paladin is one who has abandoned their Oath and quests to find a new way, while assisting those who themselves are lost in the world.



Thanks, I appreciate it.

Your design is more on the traveller type and is a really good concept while mine is the aimless swordsman :) but still is a very good option

[tarlison]

Tentative

Paladin: Grey Guards

Sometimes called ronins, oathless, wanderer, fallen, steel knights, grey knights, undecided and even sometimes Oathbreakers although they are not true oathbreakers, these paladins are not bound by any oath and can be of any alignment except evil, requirements of being a Grey Guard one must be a paladin of 3rd level with a non evil alignment, these warriors are often paladins who cannot live up their oath yet not evil enough to be an Oathbreaker, since fallen oathed paladins filled its rank they are looked downed at best treated as oathbreakers at worst. Although some follow a strong sense of honor majority become wanderers , going wherever the wind takes them and are quite whimsical. Unlike most paladin these warriors gain their divine power by sheer force of personality enabling them to tap in the flow of divine magic in the world.

Paladin Level Spells
3rd Expditious retreat, Heroism
5th Magic Weapon,Misty Step
9th Haste, Elemental Weapon
13th Dimension Door,Freedom of Movement
17th Legend Lore, Destructive Smite

Channel Divinity:
A Grey Guard Paladin of 3rd level or higher gain the following 2 channel divinity Option

Ronin Strike: When ever a grey guard successfully hit that is not a critical hit a target with a weapon attack as a free action before a damage is rolled , he may max out the weapon dice rolls ....1d8 automatically roll an 8 ...2d6 automatically roll a 12 and target gain disadvantages to attack rolls except when attacking the grey guard until the end of targets turn or until he successfully attacks the Grey Guard which ever comes first.

Counter Strike: When the target attacks the grey guard within 30 feet of the grey guard , as a reaction grey may make an attack with a weapon if attacker is in range (if using crossbow or bow it must be loaded) or reach of the weapon , if the attack hit and damage the opponent and the total attack roll is greater than the Grey Guard Armor Class ...replace the Grey Guard with the attack roll for the triggering attack, and if the target miss the Grey guard, the Grey guard may teleport 20 feet to any direction he could see.

Aura of the Four Winds
Beginning at 7th level the Grey Guards is imbue with aura the the 4 winds, that allow those close to the grey guard to move more efficiency, you and allies within 10 feet from you may use a move action to disengage. Instead of just moving your speed.
At 18th level this aura increases to 30 feet

Mastery of the Lost
Starting at 15th level He gain an Extra Attack(2) and will be capable of making 3 attack per action , this doesn't stock with the fighter extra action(2)

Form of the Lost Soul
At 20th level the Grey Guard take the form of the Great Ronin , your eyes become more feral as it change colors and look as it resenble to predatory animals such as wolves and great cats,as your body change will to a more streamline proportiln, you move more gracefully as it is savage and efficient in combat.
Using this is an action, you undergo the transformation for 1 minute and you gain the following benefits:
-You become immune to frieghten, Charmed and Paralysis
-Weapon Rage: Attack won't get disadvantages. During Poison Prone , retrained
-As a bonus action he may make one weapon attack and he may teleport 20 feet to any location he can see.
-Parry : as a reaction to an attack he may add his charisma modifier to his armor class to the triggering attack. If attacker miss he may make a weapon attack if attacker in within weapon range(note if using a bow or crossbow weapon must be loaded)
-After the effect has worn out Grey Guard suffer the effect of a confusion spell for one minute or until he receive damage

Once this feature is use he may use it again only after a long rest

[tarlison]

Tentative

Paladin: Grey Guards

Sometimes called ronins, oathless, wanderer, fallen, steel knights, grey knights, undecided and even sometimes Oathbreakers although they are not true oathbreakers, these paladins are not bound by any oath and can be of any alignment except evil, requirements of being a Grey Guard one must be a paladin of 3rd level with a non evil alignment, these warriors are often paladins who cannot live up their oath yet not evil enough to be an Oathbreaker, since fallen oathed paladins filled its rank they are looked downed at best treated as oathbreakers at worst. Although some follow a strong sense of honor majority become wanderers , going wherever the wind takes them and are quite whimsical. Unlike most paladin these warriors gain their divine power by sheer force of personality enabling them to tap in the flow of divine magic in the world.

Paladin Level Spells
3rd Expditious retreat, Heroism
5th Magic Weapon,Misty Step
9th Haste, Elemental Weapon
13th Dimension Door,Freedom of Movement
17th Legend Lore, Destructive Smite

Channel Divinity:
A Grey Guard Paladin of 3rd level or higher gain the following 2 channel divinity Option

Ronin Strike: When ever a grey guard successfully hit that is not a critical hit a target with a weapon attack as a free action before a damage is rolled , he may max out the weapon dice rolls ....1d8 automatically roll an 8 ...2d6 automatically roll a 12 and target gain disadvantages to attack rolls except when attacking the grey guard until the end of targets turn or until he successfully hit the Grey Guard which ever comes first.

Counter Strike: When the target attacks the grey guard within 30 feet of the grey guard , as a reaction grey may make an attack with a weapon if attacker is in range (if using crossbow or bow it must be loaded) or reach of the weapon , if the attack hit and damage the opponent and the total attack roll is greater than the Grey Guard Armor Class ...replace the Grey Guard with the attack roll for the triggering attack, and if the target miss the Grey guard, the Grey guard may teleport 20 feet to any direction he could see.

Aura of the Four Winds
Beginning at 7th level the Grey Guards is imbue with aura the the 4 winds, that allow those close to the grey guard to move more efficiency, you and allies within 10 feet from you may use a move action to disengage. Instead of just moving your speed.
At 18th level this aura increases to 30 feet

Mastery of the Lost
Starting at 15th level He gain an Extra Attack(2) and will be capable of making 3 attack per action , this doesn't stock with the fighter extra action(2)

Form of the Lost Soul
At 20th level the Grey Guard take the form of the Great Ronin , your eyes become more feral as it change colors and look as it resenble to predatory animals such as wolves and great cats,as your body change will to a more streamline proportions, you move more gracefully as it is savage and efficient in combat.
Using this is an action, you undergo the transformation for 1 minute and you gain the following benefits:
-You become immune to frieghten, Charmed and Paralysis
-Weapon Rage:Weapon Attack won't get disadvantages. During Poison Prone , retrained.
-Remove all exhaustion effect....he is still exhausted after the Form of the lost soul
-As a bonus action he may make one weapon attack and he may teleport 20 feet to any location he can see.
-Parry : as a reaction to an attack he may add his charisma modifier to his armor class to the triggering attack. If attacker miss he may make a weapon attack if attacker in within weapon range(note if using a bow or crossbow weapon must be loaded)

Once this feature is use he may use it again only after a long rest

[Giant2005]

Just remove the Evil requirements from the Oathbreaker and call it a day. Realistically, a non-evil Oathbreaker shouldn't be any different to an evil one anyway.

[Cazero]

Just remove the Evil requirements from the Oathbreaker and call it a day. Realistically, a non-evil Oathbreaker shouldn't be any different to an evil one anyway.

Did you read what the oathbreakers powers are? The oathbreaker is not a paladin who wasn't good enough at holding up his oath, it's a paladin that said 'f*ck altruism, I want power going against everything I previously stood for'. Hence the need for a middle ground for paladins who are not good at the whole oath keeping thing but not omnicidal maniacs.

What I would do is simply make the oath spell no longer available. Breaking your oath should be punishable, but not with an instant 'you suck' button that the DM can push anytime he feels smug. Without oath spells, the paladin lose a bunch of utility but can still smite all his content and should be strong enough to feel relevant during a quest to regain his powers.

[Giant2005]

Hence the need for a middle ground for paladins who are not good at the whole oath keeping thing but not omnicidal maniacs.
Do you? What is the middle ground between a Jedi and a Sith? The answer is the same for the Paladin: A commoner.

[goto124]

I personally hate the idea of using RP to restrict crunch. Sorry, you can't play this build because the fluff doesn't match. Or something.

IMHO of course. I guess having a character that fits the setting is more important?

[Cazero]

Do you? What is the middle ground between a Jedi and a Sith? The answer is the same for the Paladin: A commoner.

Good analogy, but I don't see paladins running on whatever is in the Force that cause every Jedi without a perfect discipline to become egomaniac murderers. That kind of power source sound somewhat evil in itself, when you think about it.


I personally hate the idea of using RP to restrict crunch. Sorry, you can't play this build because the fluff doesn't match. Or something.

IMHO of course. I guess having a character that fits the setting is more important?

It's more the brutal contrast with what the other oaths are that cause problems. A non-evil oathbreaker is perfectly fine if you fluff it as someone who did not broke his oath but had a more warlock-like oath to begin with. On the other hand, a parangon of virtue and bravery who dedicated his life to inspire greatness into others, suddenly becoming a ruthless warrior focused on the exploitation of terror just because he neglected some of his duties? Wrecking verisimilitude a bit too harshly. I feel that an intermediate step is needed, even if it's just a timeskip.

[Giant2005]

Good analogy, but I don't see paladins running on whatever is in the Force that cause every Jedi without a perfect discipline to become egomaniac murderers. That kind of power source sound somewhat evil in itself, when you think about it.
But they do.
Paladins are empowered by the force of their own conviction - you can't be convicted to mediocrity.
Without their Oath or rejection of their oath to drive that conviction, they have nothing to devote themselves to. They are nothing.
An Oath is as intrinsic to a Paladin as spellcasting is to a Sorcerer. An Oathless Paladin is in the same vein as a magic-less Sorcerer and neither should be particularly impressive.

[Vogonjeltz]

Do you? What is the middle ground between a Jedi and a Sith? The answer is the same for the Paladin: A commoner.

If Star Wars: The Old Republic MMO was anything to go by there's plenty of room for neutral Jedi or Sith. Or even Light-side Sith. By the way, Light-side Dark-side are not synonymous with Good or Evil, they actually correspond more to being Totally Emotionally Restrained vs being Totally Emotionally Susceptible.

The "problem" is dark-siders give in fully to whatever their base emotional response is, and whenever that's a negative thing, that's super bad.

I thought the PHB basically says what happens when a Paladin just isn't capable of carrying out their oath? (i.e. They seek atonement or if they're unrepentent they become another class instead, with the Oath Breaker being one option for the evil abandonment of their Oath). If that's the case, wouldn't they just convert their levels to Fighter or Cleric?


Unlike most paladin these warriors gain their divine power by sheer force of personality enabling them to tap in the flow of divine magic in the world.

The game no longer distinguishes between arcane and divine magic, so this might prove confusing. It's also slightly contradictory as the Sacred Oath is already something that allows for it to be just a personal Oath (and not one sworn to a deity or on an alter or anything).


Ronin Strike: When ever a grey guard successfully hit that is not a critical hit a target with a weapon attack as a free action before a damage is rolled

Free actions don't exist in 5th edition, this should probably be a bonus action.


Counter Strike: When the target attacks the grey guard within 30 feet of the grey guard , as a reaction grey may make an attack with a weapon if attacker is in range (if using crossbow or bow it must be loaded) or reach of the weapon , if the attack hit and damage the opponent and the total attack roll is greater than the Grey Guard Armor Class ...replace the Grey Guard with the attack roll for the triggering attack, and if the target miss the Grey guard, the Grey guard may teleport 20 feet to any direction he could see.

I'd rephrase for clarity as (the sentence is run-on and gets muddled in the middle):

Counter Strike: Anytime a Grey Guard is attacked by an enemy within 30 feet, he may use his Channel Divinity as a reaction to make a single attack at the provoking attacker with a melee or ranged weapon. If the Counter Strike damages the opponent the Grey Guard may use their attack roll in place of their armor class to determine if the opponent's attack hits. If the opponent's attack misses, the Grey Guard may immediately teleport to a location they can see within 20 feet.


Aura of the Four Winds
Beginning at 7th level the Grey Guards is imbue with aura the the 4 winds, that allow those close to the grey guard to move more efficiency, you and allies within 10 feet from you may use a move action to disengage. Instead of just moving your speed.
At 18th level this aura increases to 30 feet

There are no move actions in 5th edition, characters simply move up to their speed each turn. This should become a bonus action (as disengage is already an action).


Mastery of the Lost
Starting at 15th level He gain an Extra Attack(2) and will be capable of making 3 attack per action , this doesn't stock with the fighter extra action(2)

Probably overly powerful. Regardless, extra attack never stacks, so the caveat at the end is unnecessary.


Form of the Lost Soul
At 20th level the Grey Guard take the form of the Great Ronin , your eyes become more feral as it change colors and look as it resenble to predatory animals such as wolves and great cats,as your body change will to a more streamline proportions, you move more gracefully as it is savage and efficient in combat.
Using this is an action, you undergo the transformation for 1 minute and you gain the following benefits:
-You become immune to frieghten, Charmed and Paralysis
-Weapon Rage:Weapon Attack won't get disadvantages. During Poison Prone , retrained.
-Remove all exhaustion effect....he is still exhausted after the Form of the lost soul
-As a bonus action he may make one weapon attack and he may teleport 20 feet to any location he can see.
-Parry : as a reaction to an attack he may add his charisma modifier to his armor class to the triggering attack. If attacker miss he may make a weapon attack if attacker in within weapon range(note if using a bow or crossbow weapon must be loaded)

1) Fluff doesn't seem to flow from the concept. It might sound cool, but it's not lining up.
2) Is Weapon Rage intended to simply zero out the disadvantage in those statuses but not provide advantage at other times? This is unclear.
3) Is the exhaustion actually removed, or simply ignored for the duration? I'm reading it as the latter, so rephrase as: Ignore the effects of exhaustion.
4) Loading isn't applicable to bows.

[tarlison]

Do you? What is the middle ground between a Jedi and a Sith? The answer is the same for the Paladin: A commoner. there is I forgot his name but he is one of the most power force user he can bring down a star destroyer by force alone...use uses both light side and dark side powers and he was far from being a commoner......light side cannot control him the dark side cannot corrupt him.....yes there is a middle ground

[tarlison]

If Star Wars: The Old Republic MMO was anything to go by there's plenty of room for neutral Jedi or Sith. Or even Light-side Sith. By the way, Light-side Dark-side are not synonymous with Good or Evil, they actually correspond more to being Totally Emotionally Restrained vs being Totally Emotionally Susceptible.

The "problem" is dark-siders give in fully to whatever their base emotional response is, and whenever that's a negative thing, that's super bad.

I thought the PHB basically says what happens when a Paladin just isn't capable of carrying out their oath? (i.e. They seek atonement or if they're unrepentent they become another class instead, with the Oath Breaker being one option for the evil abandonment of their Oath). If that's the case, wouldn't they just convert their levels to Fighter or Cleric?



The game no longer distinguishes between arcane and divine magic, so this might prove confusing. It's also slightly contradictory as the Sacred Oath is already something that allows for it to be just a personal Oath (and not one sworn to a deity or on an alter or anything).



Free actions don't exist in 5th edition, this should probably be a bonus action.



I'd rephrase for clarity as (the sentence is run-on and gets muddled in the middle):

Counter Strike: Anytime a Grey Guard is attacked by an enemy within 30 feet, he may use his Channel Divinity as a reaction to make a single attack at the provoking attacker with a melee or ranged weapon. If the Counter Strike damages the opponent the Grey Guard may use their attack roll in place of their armor class to determine if the opponent's attack hits. If the opponent's attack misses, the Grey Guard may immediately teleport to a location they can see within 20 feet.



There are no move actions in 5th edition, characters simply move up to their speed each turn. This should become a bonus action (as disengage is already an action).



Probably overly powerful. Regardless, extra attack never stacks, so the caveat at the end is unnecessary.



1) Fluff doesn't seem to flow from the concept. It might sound cool, but it's not lining up.
2) Is Weapon Rage intended to simply zero out the disadvantage in those statuses but not provide advantage at other times? This is unclear.
3) Is the exhaustion actually removed, or simply ignored for the duration? I'm reading it as the latter, so rephrase as: Ignore the effects of exhaustion.
4) Loading isn't applicable to bows.

Thanks :) I will work on it :)

[tarlison]

Tentative

Paladin: Grey Guards

Sometimes called ronins, oathless, wanderer, fallen, steel knights, grey knights, undecided and even sometimes Oathbreakers although they are not true oathbreakers, these paladins are not bound by any oath and can be of any alignment except evil, requirements of being a Grey Guard one must be a paladin of 3rd level with a non evil alignment, these warriors are often paladins who cannot live up their oath yet not evil enough to be an Oathbreaker, since fallen oathed paladins filled its rank they are looked downed at best treated as oathbreakers at worst. Although some follow a strong sense of honor majority become wanderers , going wherever the wind takes them and are quite whimsical. Unlike most paladin these warriors gain their power by sheer force of personality enabling them to tap in the flow of magic in the world.

Paladin Level Spells
3rd Expditious retreat, Divine Favor
5th Magic Weapon,Misty Step
9th Haste, Elemental Weapon
13th Dimension Door,Freedom of Movement
17th Legend Lore, Destructive Smite

Channel Divinity:
A Grey Guard Paladin of 3rd level or higher gain the following 2 channel divinity Option

Ronin Strike: When ever a grey guard successfully hit that is not a critical hit a target with a weapon attack he may use his channel divinity before a damage is rolled , he may max out the weapon dice rolls ....1d8 automatically roll an 8 ...2d6 automatically roll a 12 and target gain disadvantages to attack rolls except when attacking the grey guard until the end of targets turn or until he successfully hit the Grey Guard which ever comes first.

Counter Strike: Anytime a GreyvGuard is attack by an enemy within 30 feet ,he may use a channel divinity as a reaction to make a single attack at the provoking attacker with a melee or range weapon. If the counter strike damages the opponent the Grey Guard may use their attack rolls in place of their armor class to determine if the opponent's attack roll hits. If the opponent attack miss the Grey Guard, the Grey Guard may immediately teleport to a location they can see within 20 feet.

Aura of the Four Winds
Beginning at 7th level the Grey Guards is imbue with aura the the 4 winds, that allow those close to the grey guard to move more efficiency, you and allies within 10 feet from you may use as a bonus action to disengage. Instead of just moving your speed.
At 18th level this aura increases to 30 feet

Mastery of the Lost
Starting at 15th level when a Grey Guard have no allies within 10 feet of him He gain an Extra Attack(2) and will be capable of making 3 attack per action .

Form of the Lost Soul
At 20th level the Grey Guard take the form of the Lost One, some say its a curse from the gods while other says its the result of guilt while some even say its a form of insanity ,while others say its the resultof tapping into the divine without the guidance of the Oath, your eyes become more feral as it change colors and look as it resenble to predatory animals such as wolves and great cats,as your body change will to a more streamline proportions, you move more gracefully as it is savage and efficient in combat but suffer a huge mental set back after the effect because of psychological strained.

Using this is an action, you undergo the transformation for 1 minute and you gain the following benefits:
-Whenever a hostile creature damages you must suceed on a DC equal to 1/2 the damage taken minimum of 15 wisdom savimg throw or go Berserk, While berserk you must use your action each rounds to attack a creature closest to you , if you can make an extra attack as per attack actiom , you use those extra attacks, moving to attack the next nearest target after you fell the current target, if you have multiple possible target, you can attack one at ramdom, this effect last until the end of your turn.
-You become immune to frieghten, Charmed and Paralysis
-Weapon Rage:Weapon Attack ignore disadvantage effect from being Poison Prone and retrained.
-Ignore all exhaustion effect
-As a bonus action he may make one weapon attack and he may teleport 20 feet to any location he can see.
-Parry : as a reaction to an attack he may add his charisma modifier to his armor class to the triggering attack. If attacker miss he may make a weapon attack if attacker in within weapon range(note if using a crossbow must be loaded )
-0nce the Form of the Lost Soul expires , the Grey Guard suffers the effect of a confusion spell for one minute or until he suffers single damage not less than 20 minus his Charisma modifier minimum of 10 or which ever comes first.

Once this feature is use he may use it again only after a long rest

[goto124]

By the way, stupid question... what's so special about the paladin crunch, that people want to play it without the oaths and other paladin fluff?

[tarlison]

This is meant to be use until the paladin finda new oath

[Wartex1]

By the way, stupid question... what's so special about the paladin crunch, that people want to play it without the oaths and other paladin fluff?

This is probably so that there's something a DM can't screw a Paladin out of besides the evil-only Oathbreaker.

[tarlison]

Paladin: Grey Guards

Sometimes called ronins, oathless, wanderer, fallen, steel knights, grey knights, undecided and even sometimes Oathbreakers although they are not true oathbreakers, these paladins are not bound by any oath and can be of any alignment except evil, requirements of being a Grey Guard one must be a paladin of 3rd level with a non evil alignment, these warriors are often paladins who cannot live up their oath yet not evil enough to be an Oathbreaker, since fallen oathed paladins filled its rank they are looked downed at best treated as oathbreakers at worst. Although some follow a strong sense of honor majority become wanderers , going wherever the wind takes them and are quite whimsical. Unlike most paladin these warriors gain their power by sheer force of personality enabling them to tap in the flow of magic in the world.

Paladin Level Spells
3rd Expditious retreat, Divine Favor
5th Magic Weapon,Misty Step
9th Haste, Elemental Weapon
13th Dimension Door,Freedom of Movement
17th Legend Lore, Destructive Smite

Channel Divinity:
A Grey Guard Paladin of 3rd level or higher gain the following 2 channel divinity Option

Ronin Strike: When ever a grey guard successfully hit that is not a critical hit a target with a weapon attack he may use his channel divinity before a damage is rolled , he may max out the weapon dice rolls ....1d8 automatically roll an 8 ...2d6 automatically roll a 12 and target gain disadvantages to attack rolls except when attacking the grey guard until the end of targets turn or until he successfully hit the Grey Guard which ever comes first.

Counter Strike: Anytime a GreyvGuard is attack by an enemy within 30 feet ,he may use a channel divinity as a reaction to make a single attack at the provoking attacker with a melee or range weapon. If the counter strike damages the opponent the Grey Guard may use their attack rolls in place of their armor class to determine if the opponent's attack roll hits. If the opponent attack miss the Grey Guard, the Grey Guard may immediately teleport to a location they can see within 20 feet.

Aura of the Four Winds
Beginning at 7th level the Grey Guards is imbue with aura the the 4 winds, that allow those close to the grey guard to move more efficiency, you and allies within 10 feet from you may use as a bonus action to disengage. Instead of just moving your speed.
At 18th level this aura increases to 30 feet

Mastery of the Lost
Starting at 15th level when a Grey Guard have no allies within 10 feet of him He gain an Extra Attack(2) and will be capable of making 3 attack per action .

Form of the Lost Soul
At 20th level the Grey Guard take the form of the Lost One, some say its a curse from the gods while other says its the result of guilt while some even say its a form of insanity ,while others say its the resultof tapping into the divine without the guidance of the Oath, your eyes become more feral as it change colors and look as it resenble to predatory animals such as wolves and great cats,as your body change will to a more streamline proportions, you move more gracefully as it is savage and efficient in combat but suffer a huge mental set back after the effect because of psychological strained.

Using this is an action, you undergo the transformation for 1 minute and you gain the following benefits:
-Whenever a hostile creature damages you must suceed on a DC equal to 1/2 the damage taken minimum of 15 wisdom savimg throw or go Berserk, While berserk you must use your action each rounds to attack a creature closest to you , if you can make an extra attack as per attack actiom , you use those extra attacks, moving to attack the next nearest target after you fell the current target, if you have multiple possible target, you can attack one at ramdom, this effect last until the end of your turn.
-You become immune to frieghten, Charmed and Paralysis
-Weapon Rage:Weapon Attack ignore all effect that causes disadvantage and penalty, gain weapon damage bonus equal to charisma modifier minimum 1
-Ignore all exhaustion effect
-As a bonus action he may make one weapon attack and he may teleport 20 feet to any location he can see.
-Parry : as a reaction to an attack he may add his charisma modifier to his armor class to the triggering attack. If attacker miss he may make a weapon attack if attacker in within weapon range(note if using a crossbow must be loaded )
-0nce the Form of the Lost Soul expires , the Grey Guard suffers the effect of a confusion spell for one minute or until he suffers single damage not less than 20 minus his Charisma modifier minimum of 10 or which ever comes first.

Once this feature is use he may use it again only after a long rest.

[tarlison]

Oath of the Long Path
By: Vogonjeltz

Fluff: This Paladin is devoted to seeking out new places, protecting those on journeys and ensuring they safely reach their destinations. Paladins who swear this oath are devoted to protecting lost travellers, and vow to remain ever on the move to find and return those who have lost their way.

Tenets of the Traveller
Road Hospitality. Always offer aid to those you meet in your travels, including sharing of campsites, no matter the personal cost.
Restlessness. Be ever on the move searching for new sights and those in need, committing to this oath means not remaining at a permanent home for longer than it takes to heal and re-supply. (DMs: Try to be flexible here, the oath is intended to reflect a character's restless nature, not to punish them).
Guide the Lost. Seek out the missing and attempt to reunite them with their loved ones.
Free Travel. Oppose those who would seek to stifle free travel, be they Men or Monsters. (DM note: This could be Bandits, Highwaymen, Monsters, or even agents of an Oppressive Kingdom).

Oath Spells

3rd - expeditious retreat, longstrider (note: heroism is already on the Paladin spell list, plus it doesn't make sense thematically).
5th - misty step, find steed
9th - create food and water, haste
13th - locate creature, dimension door
17th - teleportation circle, tree stride

The spells chosen are different to reflect the nature of the Paladin being one of a wanderer who protects fellow travellers.

Channel Divinity:
Find the True Path. You can use your Channel Divinity to find your way no matter what misleadds you. As an action you gain a second sight for one minute that reveals the truth behind illusions and grants normal vision even in magical darkness. You also have advantage on Wisdom (perception) checks to find any creature attempting to hide.
Warden of the Lost. You can use your Channel Divinity to protect all friendly creatures within 30 feet. For one minute, or until they attack another creature, all friendly creatures gain the benefits of the Sanctuary, Protection from Evil and Good, and Nondetection spells.

Aura of Travel
Starting at 7th level, you and friendly creatures within 10 feet of you have your movement speed increased by 10 feet. At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.

Unfettered Traveller
Beginning at 15th level, you are unaffected by difficult terrain and have advantage on checks to avoid petrification, restraint, paralysis, being stunned or grappled. (DMs: If no saving throw would be allowed normally, instead of granting advantage, allow a saving throw).

Master of the Twisting Paths
At 20th level you can interfere with the direction of those around you. As an action for 1 minute any creatures you designate within 30 feet of you is affected as if by maze spell. Each turn you may, as an action, add another creature to the maze. When the effect ends, all affected creatures are released.

[goto124]

Bascially a paladin who worships a God of Travellers, so rather like a paladin of freedom, and will do stuff she's going to do anyway as an adventurer.

[Hyena]

There already is an oathless paladin in the game. It's called "fighter".

[Wartex1]

There already is an oathless paladin in the game. It's called "fighter".

Except that they're very different mechanically

[Psikerlord]

The defining aspect of a paladin is the oath. Otherwise he's a fighter or cleric. Every paladin comes with baggage that restricts their choices. Such is the price of being a paladin.

[obryn]

The defining aspect of a paladin is the oath. Otherwise he's a fighter or cleric. Every paladin comes with baggage that restricts their choices. Such is the price of being a paladin.
...But apparently not in the OP's game.

He's looking for mechanical help on his concept, not thematic help.

[tarlison]

Paladin: Seekers

These are Paladin are often called Seekers, Watchers, Undecided and Pathfinders, these are warriors who are seeking the Path they belong to, its not uncommon for a seeker to keep a chronicles of his journey sometimes on a day to day basis ,earning some to be called Chroniclers. To qualify to be a Seeker one must be a Paladin of at least 3rd level of a none evil alignment.

Guide of the Seeker.
-Never take any belief into extreme as such will blind you from the truth.
-Follow your heart not some abstract ideals in the end the greatest knowledge one can have is knowing once self.
-Don't sway to the path of darkness ( Alignment becomes Evil) as the dark can also twist the truth.
-Know the truth but not necessary to tell them as some knowledge are better left untold.
-Sometimes the only way to preserved the truth is through lies.

Oath Spells:
3rd level Long Strider, Detect Evil and Good
5ft level Find Steed, See Invisibility
9th level Create Food and Water, Clairvoyance
13th level Dimension Door, Divination
17th level Teleportation Circle, Legend Lore

Channel Divinity: Seeker Paladin of 3rd level or higher gain the following 2 channel divinity Option
Reveal Form: All enemy within a 30 feet radius must make a charisma save or force to reveal their true form and can't change shape for one minute.
Tireless: Remove one point exhaustion to self and one ally within 10 feet

Aura of the Restless
At 7th level the seeker and those within 10 feet of him reduces the effect of exhaustion by two and never reduced their speed to 0 or die from exhaustion as long as they are within the aura. At 18th level increases the range of this Aura to 30 feet.

Master Seeker
At 17th level If they don't have the skill yet treat them as having the History, Survival, Investigation and Perception Skills. When using these skills they may use their Charisma modifier instead of what is use respectively, Double the proficiency bonus use in those skills.

The Restless Ones
At 20th level the seeker as an action may summon powers to enhance his senses and reflex, the entire process last for one minute and he gain the following effect:
-He is affected by a Haste Spell
-He is affected by a True Seeing Spell

Once this feature is use he may use it again only after a long rest.

[goto124]

Except that they're very different mechanically

In what way? I was wondering why paladin mechanics were so awesome one would attempt to remove the oath part of paladins.

[tarlison]

In what way? I was wondering why paladin mechanics were so awesome one would attempt to remove the oath part of paladins.

Not really this is just an option not to replace the one existed

[Vogonjeltz]

Not really this is just an option not to replace the one existed

The new unearthed arcana is all about creating new class options (e.g. a new Paladin Oath would fit this), it's definitely worth a look to see how it all fits in.

[tarlison]

The new unearthed arcana is all about creating new class options (e.g. a new Paladin Oath would fit this), it's definitely worth a look to see how it all fits in.
That would be cool :) its really hard to balance things up :)

[Usmcguillory]

Tried to make your description a little more narrative, not sure I got the right idea for the grey guard though, feel free to use it if you like it -

Grey Guards -
Paladins are known as bastions of conviction, personifying the will of their deity in the material realm.
This, however, does not hold true for all paladins. Some, having seen the extreme methods of their deity and the suffering caused by these methods, have renounced their position and now walk their own path. Others could not live up to the oath they swore to uphold, and have simply abandoned their life as a Paladin.
The Paladin's are known by many names; ronins, oathless, and wanderers are common titles.
They are better known as the Grey Guard.
Though they have renounced their oaths, the members of the Grey Guards have not broken it, and many still hold dominion over the divine power granted to them as agents of the gods.
The Grey Guards are regarded as failures by common folk, and traitors by those others who work in the service of their deities.
Few Grey Guards cling to the strict code of honor upheld by pious paladins, the majority find themselves as wanderers, acting in alignment with their own principles, and not those of a higher power.

Requirements. To become a Grey Guard, your player must be a paladin, level 3, with an alignment of neutral or good.

[tarlison]

Thanks :) that is really a great help :)

[tarlison]

Grey Guards -
Paladin's are known as bastions of conviction, personifying the will of their deity in the material realm.
This, however, does not hold true for all paladins. Some, having seen the extreme methods of their deity and the suffering caused by these methods, have renounced their position and now walk their own path. Others could not live up to the oath they swore to uphold, and have simply abandoned their life as a Paladin.
The Paladin's are known by many names; ronins, oathless, and wanderers are common titles.
They are better known as the Grey Guard.
Though they have renounced their oaths, the members of the Grey Guards have not broken it, and many still hold dominion over the divine power granted to them as agents of the gods.
The Grey Guards are regarded as failures by common folk, and traitors by those others who work in the service of their deities.
Few Grey Guards cling to the strict code of honor upheld by pious paladins, the majority find themselves as wanderers, acting in alignment with their own principles, and not those of a higher power.

Requirements. To become a Grey Guard, your player must be a paladin, level 3, with an alignment of neutral (not neutral evil) or good.

Paladin Level Spells
3rd Expditious retreat, Divine Favor
5th Magic Weapon,Misty Step
9th Haste, Elemental Weapon
13th Dimension Door,Freedom of Movement
17th Legend Lore, Destructive Smite

Channel Divinity:
A Grey Guard Paladin of 3rd level or higher gain the following 2 channel divinity Option

Ronin Strike: When ever a grey guard successfully hit that is not a critical hit a target with a weapon attack he may use his channel divinity before a damage is rolled , he may max out the weapon dice rolls ....1d8 automatically roll an 8 ...2d6 automatically roll a 12 and target gain disadvantages to attack rolls except when attacking the grey guard until the end of targets turn or until he successfully hit the Grey Guard which ever comes first.

Counter Strike: Anytime a GreyvGuard is attack by an enemy within 30 feet ,he may use a channel divinity as a reaction to make a single attack at the provoking attacker with a melee or range weapon. If the counter strike damages the opponent the Grey Guard may use their attack rolls in place of their armor class to determine if the opponent's attack roll hits. If the opponent attack miss the Grey Guard, the Grey Guard may immediately teleport to a location they can see within 20 feet.

Aura of the Four Winds
Beginning at 7th level the Grey Guards is imbue with aura the the 4 winds, that allow those close to the grey guard to move more efficiency, you and allies within 10 feet from you may use as a bonus action to disengage. Instead of just moving your speed.
At 18th level this aura increases to 30 feet

Mastery of the Lost
Starting at 15th level when a Grey Guard have no allies within 10 feet of him He gain an Extra Attack(2) and will be capable of making 3 attack per action .

Form of the Lost Soul
At 20th level the Grey Guard take the form of the Lost One, some say its a curse from the gods while other says its the result of guilt while some even say its a form of insanity ,while others say its the resultof tapping into the divine without the guidance of the Oath, your eyes become more feral as it change colors and look as it resenble to predatory animals such as wolves and great cats,as your body change will to a more streamline proportions, you move more gracefully as it is savage and efficient in combat but suffer a huge mental set back after the effect because of psychological strained.

Using this is an action, you undergo the transformation for 1 minute and you gain the following benefits:
-Whenever a hostile creature damages you must suceed on a DC equal to 1/2 the damage taken minimum of 15 wisdom savimg throw or go Berserk, While berserk you must use your action each rounds to attack a creature closest to you , if you can make an extra attack as per attack actiom , you use those extra attacks, moving to attack the next nearest target after you fell the current target, if you have multiple possible target, you can attack one at ramdom, this effect last until the end of your turn.
-You become immune to frieghten, Charmed and Paralysis
-Weapon Rage:Weapon Attack ignore all effect that causes disadvantage and penalty, gain weapon damage bonus equal to charisma modifier minimum 1
-Ignore all exhaustion effect
-As a bonus action he may make one weapon attack and he may teleport 20 feet to any location he can see.
-Parry : as a reaction to an attack he may add his charisma modifier to his armor class to the triggering attack. If attacker miss he may make a weapon attack if attacker in within weapon range(note if using a crossbow must be loaded )
-0nce the Form of the Lost Soul expires , the Grey Guard suffers the effect of a confusion spell for one minute or until he suffers single damage not less than 20 minus his Charisma modifier minimum of 10 or which ever comes first.

Once this feature is use he may use it again only after a long rest.

[Usmcguillory]

Thanks :) that is really a great help :)

No problem! I love fluff and flavor xD
The Mastery of the Lost feat is brilliant. It ties in well with the idea of the class and is powerful without being unbalanced. Well done~

[tarlison]

No problem! I love fluff and flavor xD
The Mastery of the Lost feat is brilliant. It ties in well with the idea of the class and is powerful without being unbalanced. Well done~

Thanks :) I guess there is still a bit twicking hopefully it will be iron out soon :)

[Envyus]

I think a Paladin giving up their oath should just become straight up weaker. Losing all Divine Abilities granted to them. A paladin gets their powers from their oath.

While I doubt you will go along with my way I think you should remove the paladin's spell casting and all oath powers. Keeping Lay on Hands and Divine sense as leftovers from paladin traning along with abilities that don't have anything to do divine power like the extra attack and fighting styles. Becoming an Oathbreaker Paladin should be seen as a tempting route to power for these paladins if they don't find a new oath to believe in.

[tarlison]

I think a Paladin giving up their oath should just become straight up weaker. Losing all Divine Abilities granted to them. A paladin gets their powers from their oath.

While I doubt you will go along with my way I think you should remove the paladin's spell casting and all oath powers. Keeping Lay on Hands and Divine sense as leftovers from paladin traning along with abilities that don't have anything to do divine power like the extra attack and fighting styles. Becoming an Oathbreaker Paladin should be seen as a tempting route to power for these paladins if they don't find a new oath to believe in.
It depends but its DM disgretion just don't like PC under the mercy of DMS and I just want to see them not as helpless as they should be evil are given the oath breaker why not those simply find the oath abusive to the innocent which are really possible but to each it own, extra attack symbolize the desperation of being alone which such paladins often find themselves in

[Hyena]

With wording of oaths as presented in the actual player handbook, falling is nearly impossible, unless you are behaving like a complete evil jackass.

[tarlison]

With wording of oaths as presented in the actual player handbook, falling is nearly impossible, unless you are behaving like a complete evil jackass.

Trust me some DM can really give you a lot of problems with the oath on damn if you do damn if you don't situation of the oath ...its just an option nothing really serious about

[goto124]

An oath to stay loyal to your friends could work. Stuff like 'no backstabbing' and 'never split the party'. Can work for every alignment, even CE. You're going to follow it anyway, for playability reasons. Aka if you break it, there's some serious OoC things going on. Come to think of it, some groups make the players sign a contract before playing...

I thought of an Oath of the Fourth Wall :smallbiggrin: Not sure what it's actually about - maybe an oath to metagame only in good ways - but the idea's funny. Even if it's too meta for most games.

[Rad Mage]

I thought of an Oath of the Fourth Wall :smallbiggrin: Not sure what it's actually about - maybe an oath to metagame only in good ways - but the idea's funny. Even if it's too meta for most games.

Oath of The Fourth Wall

You have become aware of a horrifying truth, you are not a truly autonomous being. You are but a single piece in a game played by beings beyond your comprehension. And as with all games there are rules. You are sworn to uphold these rules.
The tennets are as follows:

Each fourth wall paladin aligns themselves to a "table", a group of allies that the paladins vows to protect and aid.

Life is a game that is to be enjoyed. It is a fourth wall paladin's duty to ensure that the members of his table are enjoying the game as much as possible.

A third thing.:smallbiggrin:

The fourth wall paladin shall always check behind the throne/waterfall.

[goto124]

This is great :D