How would you make Long Distance Space Travel possible?

[Dark Kerman]

Hi all, on a roll today. :smalltongue:

I've been building my setting with the idea that space travel is a thing using both Scrying Magic and Greater Teleport, with many civilisations having taken to traveling the stars and terraforming planets with magic


However, I have a problem in that having reread the description of Scrying, it only targets creatures, meaning you can't just pick a star or planet and get cracking. The alternative is Scry Location, but that imposes a +2 DC for every 1000 miles, making galactic scrying unfeasible.

My main question is what scrying methods are available to allow this, excluding epic magic in the rules? Could you just use Scrying and say "A creature somewhere in this direction"? Even so, this would only allow aiming at inhabited planets.

Thanks,

DK

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think you can bypass the issues by using Plane Shift instead of teleport magic. Sure, you'll arrive up to 500 miles off-course, but that's hardly a problem when you're aiming at something as large as a planet. Even if the DM rules that you can wind up floating in space, you'll be close enough for Scry Location to work without issue.

[Cruiser1]

However, I have a problem in that having reread the description of Scrying, it only targets creatures, meaning you can't just pick a star or planet and get cracking. My main question is what scrying methods are available to allow this, excluding epic magic in the rules?
Why do you need to Scry at all? If you want to Greater Teleport to a different star system, just look up at the night sky, pick a star and go there! Because you can see the star and have LOS to it, it or at least the space around the star counts as "viewed once". Buff yourself immune to vacuum damage, do a quick Augury or Divination to make sure your upcoming teleport won't be dangerous for some other reason, and then Greater Teleport 10 light minutes away from the neighboring star (roughly Earth's orbit). Once there, look around for any planets, then Greater Teleport to their surface to check them out.

[Psyren]

Interplanetary Teleport (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/interplanetary-teleport) traps? (What space program?)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

For observation, a Third Eye: Sense (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#sense) can see and hear at an unlimited distance, you can use it repeatedly like Far Sight in WoW (https://youtu.be/1IQVZyIDa2I), using what the current sensor can see/hear to place the next one, until you're close enough to whatever it was you wanted to see.

Here is a fully functional space ship (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19014771&postcount=28), but teleportation works as well.

[Arbane]

Spelljammer ships?

[Arcanist]

For observation, a Third Eye: Sense (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#sense) can see and hear at an unlimited distance, you can use it repeatedly like Far Sight in WoW (https://youtu.be/1IQVZyIDa2I), using what the current sensor can see/hear to place the next one, until you're close enough to whatever it was you wanted to see.

Here is a fully functional space ship (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19014771&postcount=28), but teleportation works as well.

This is really neat.

Alternatively, if you don't want to have to worry about food or water or survival for that matter, you can always put the ships staff in a Temporal Stasis, give them all Ioun Stones (Clear Spindle & Iridescent Spindle), a Dedicated Wright (ECS) to make use of a Wand of Dispel Magic to release the party when they arrive (OR a Contingent Dispel Magic targeted on them when they arrive), stock them into an Airship (ECS), and set the team up with enough GP and XP to complete a Crafted Portal back to your planet.

While more expensive, I'm presuming if you have funds for a space program, you can probably afford 190,700gp to set up a portal between two planets. Hell, that is the price for sending a Magewright there and not yourself:



Ioun Stones:

-Clear Spindle: 4,000gp
-Iridescent Spindle: 18,000gp


Dedicated Wright: 2,100gp + 160xp
Wand of Dispel Magic (CL 10): 22,500gp
Airship: 92,000gp
Cost for Portal Construction: 50,000gp
Scroll of Greater Plane Shift or Greater Teleport (allowing you to send lower level Magewright to complete the portal): 3,000gp
Hired Wizard to cast Temporal Stasis (CL 15) on your staffer: 1,200gp


Alternatively, you can just write it off as Spelljamming or some other voodoo.

[True believer]

My main question is what scrying methods are available to allow this, excluding epic magic in the rules? Could you just use Scrying and say "A creature somewhere in this direction"? Even so, this would only allow aiming at inhabited planets.



I am currently DMing a campaign based on the same idea and here are the mechanics i used to make it happen:

a) the idea:the space between the Crystal spheres is being occupied by some planes.These planes are frictions of the past of the worlds that exist inside the nearest crystal sphere.
So you can teleport into a plane where the past exists ( how many of years in the past is to being decided from each dm according to what suits his story)

Knowledge the planes DC: 45

b) The machine: Adamantine Cubes 30 Ft long and tall.

Spell: a)

Name: Meant to last in time (transformation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 5, Travel 5
Components: V , S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: touch
Target: touched adamntine objects which cannot be taller and longer that 50 feet.
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You infuse an object with magic and you made it to be literally indestructible. Only divine abilities possessed by Gods and Demigods can harm these objects. These objects can contain enormous ammount of raw magic.



You put the spell on a cube as discribed above. A wizard gets inside and casts the following spells:

spell b)
Name: Detect planes (Scrying)
Level: Sor/Wiz 6, Travel 6
Components: V , S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Infinite
Target: Cone-shaped emanation
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No


You are able to detect planes thousand of miles away.The amount of information revealed depends on how long you study a particular plane

1st Round
information about time, terrain, population and size of the plane.

2nd Round
Population of the plane. description of the most dominant life form in the plane.

3rd Round
Historical information about this plane

Arcane focus: crystal ball wothed 5000gp


Spell C)
Name: Cosmic telepor (Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 8, Travel 8
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal and touch
Target: You and touched objects or other touched willing creatures
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None and Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: No and Yes (object)



As teleport except:
a)the designated destination can be as distant as 1,000,000 miles per caster level
b) Raw magic is created when casting this spell. An explosion of raw magic is happening centered on you and destroys everything in a 500 feet radios.

Material components:
arcane components worth at least 10,000gp , 3000xp


Arcane Focus

[Krobar]

We went the Spelljammer route.

[Bronk]

Nice. Spelljamming is awesome.

[Krobar]

Yeah. Spelljamming is cool. My epic bard's yacht has a Spelljammer Helm, which is a captain's chair, a Planar Helm which is the wheel, a Cloud Keel, Everful Sails, and'Fharlangn's Lines. That party can go literally anywhere.

It has a bunch of other stuff too.

[TrollCapAmerica]

I always liked the concept of Spelljammer I just prefer modding to "In sppppaacceee" instead of using Crystal spheres and goofy "no gods here lol" rules from 2nd ed.

[Necromancy]

Spell C)
Name: Cosmic telepor (Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 8, Travel 8
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal and touch
Target: You and touched objects or other touched willing creatures
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None and Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: No and Yes (object)



As teleport except:
a)the designated destination can be as distant as 1,000,000 miles per caster level
b) Raw magic is created when casting this spell. An explosion of raw magic is happening centered on you and destroys everything in a 500 feet radios.

Material components:
arcane components worth at least 10,000gp , 3000xp


Arcane Focus

1,000,000 miles per caster level?

You'd have to be level 140 to land on Mars. Let alone traverse the stars. The nearest star is Alpha Centauri at 5,880,000,000,000 miles away

[Mr Adventurer]

Once you can cast Greater Teleport, there's no reason not to (go and explore space) (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?352633-Once-You-Can-Cast-Greater-Teleport-There-s-No-Reason-Not-To-Live-On-The-Moon). Some good things in that thread. :D

[Allanimal]

Why do you need to Scry at all? If you want to Greater Teleport to a different star system, just look up at the night sky, pick a star and go there! Because you can see the star and have LOS to it, it or at least the space around the star counts as "viewed once".

What you are seeing is where the star was years or hundreds, thousands or millions of years ago. Since then, the star has moved millions or billions of miles relative to you. Hell, it may not even exist anymore.
I know I have just killed many catgirls, but you gotta be careful with these things that are many light years away...

[Flickerdart]

It's possible that ancient wizards sent forward seed ships carrying Constructs whose only purpose is to find habitable worlds and sit on them; the identities of these constructs are archived so that any one can easily be Scried upon.

Yes, magic Stargate.

[Heikold]

Have you considered making the classic Peasant Railgun, but using giants instead of peasants and a magically forged space shuttle instead of a pole?

Not as direct as the teleport methods, but potentially funnier. Getting back might be tricky.

[Maglubiyet]

1,000,000 miles per caster level?

You'd have to be level 140 to land on Mars. Let alone traverse the stars. The nearest star is Alpha Centauri at 5,880,000,000,000 miles away

Who says they are in a fantasy campaign? The stars could be magical toadstools constantly lit with faerie fire merely 1,000 miles away.

[Eldan]

The peasant railgun doesn't work. You can move with infinite speed along hte lines, but if one really wants to use the D&D rules as written, instead of real work physics (which is sort of a requirement for the transport line in the first place), the last guy in the line just throws the transported item, or drops it to the floor. D&D rules have no momentum. You move infinite speed, then stop instantly as soon as no one is carrying you.

[Arcanist]

Have you considered making the classic Peasant Railgun, but using giants instead of peasants and a magically forged space shuttle instead of a pole?

Not as direct as the teleport methods, but potentially funnier. Getting back might be tricky.

Did you know that if you lined up all the giants on Faerun to the Moon, they would all die? People still blue text right?

[Necromancy]

Who says they are in a fantasy campaign? The stars could be magical toadstools constantly lit with faerie fire merely 1,000 miles away.

In most d&d games it's relatively assumed that physics are completely normal and that only the existance of Magic (as a catalyst) is different.

If you're going to have space mushrooms inhabited by super saiyans or something that's fine. Just design that game from the ground up as something different

[Flickerdart]

In most d&d games it's relatively assumed that physics are completely normal and that only the existance of Magic (as a catalyst) is different.

If you're going to have space mushrooms inhabited by super saiyans or something that's fine. Just design that game from the ground up as something different
Physics are completely normal - but nothing in our physical laws pre-empts tiny yellow dots in the sky from being faerie mushrooms. We know that Earth's sky contains real far-away balls of hot plasma because of precise scientific observation over centuries, but nobody in a setting will have done spectral analysis on points in the sky because the ideas don't exist.

[Dark Kerman]

Wow! Quite a response. Liking some of the ideas.

I think for the purpose of what I'm getting at I should probably clarify on some things:

The universe the PC's will explore in will more or less be comparable to our own, including the limit of the distance of light (though for setting reasons magic can get around that). The Far Realm will be a literal material place so far to the edge of the universe that the laws of physics start getting a bit squiffy.

The setting is mostly standard fantasy, with Aberrants taking the roles of Aliens in a lot of cases (Because sometimes its fun to fight space invading illithids with swords and shields spiked chain and 10ft reach).

@ Krobar, Bronk, True Believer

I do love the Spelljammer setting, but due to the obvious issues with travel distance I'd generally think instant transport would be better. Mostly intergalactic travel is ran by a (mostly benevolent) mage cartel.

@Psyren:

That is... Nail on the head, but I tend to keep it 3.5. Definitely something I'll probably add though.

@Biffoniacus_Furiou

Once again, spot on stuff. :smallbiggrin: I suppose that would also make the threat of Mind Flayer invaders all the more palpable to boot...


@Flickerdart + Everyone else

It's a good idea, and definitely fitting. I was thinking for a pure arcane magic route it might be worthwhile to send out seed golems (cheap throwaway crap) to scout out potential systems. If they get destroyed no worries, if not you can scry on them as per the spell to find a location?

All in all, good going playground.

[Flickerdart]

I was thinking for a pure arcane magic route it might be worthwhile to send out seed golems (cheap throwaway crap) to scout out potential systems. If they get destroyed no worries, if not you can scry on them as per the spell to find a location?
Remember that there's no reason the golems can't themselves have access to teleportation - "1 billion miles that way, please" is a legitimate use, and nobody cares if that ends up stranding the golem in interstellar space because it can just shoot again. Once it reaches a habitable planet, it can send a sending back to the master (who is well advised to find a means to immortality, as the golems may take a while to find their goals).

It only costs 8000gp (and the Rudimentary Intelligence feat) to create an intelligent construct, and then you can give it either custom items (either traps or 1/day items) or a Spell Clock (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20070312a) of greater teleport.

[True believer]

Create your own spells that suit your campaign and make it happen :D

[Cruiser1]

Why do you need to Scry at all? If you want to Greater Teleport to a different star system, just look up at the night sky, pick a star and go there! Because you can see the star and have LOS to it, it or at least the space around the star counts as "viewed once".

What you are seeing is where the star was years or hundreds, thousands or millions of years ago. Since then, the star has moved millions or billions of miles relative to you. Hell, it may not even exist anymore. I know I have just killed many catgirls, but you gotta be careful with these things that are many light years away...
That doesn't matter. :smallsmile: The purpose of looking up at a star is to give you an appropriate mental image of a destination. Your mental awareness is what allows the magic of teleport spells to move you to a location or person. It doesn't matter whether the star is actually there or not. Consider scrying, in which you see the image of something in your 2x4 foot mirror. That something isn't actually right in front of you, but is rather some indeterminate distance in some indeterminate direction. You're still able to teleport to it though.

That said, it's probably best to teleport to neighboring stars first (which are mostly likely the brightest stars in the sky). Those stars are only a few light years away, instead of thousands or millions. If you try to teleport to a 10 billion year old quasar at the edge of the universe, then you no longer have an accurate mental image of the location since it's radically changed since then, which means greater teleport will probably just fail.