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CE man of evil
2015-03-30, 04:31 AM
I would like to make a CE rouge in my D and D game thats based around belkar, the whole evil but at the same time charasmatic and able to have friends. I am not sure how to describe it but some nouns and verbs and etc, would help me make a list to follow:smallcool:

Joe the Rat
2015-03-30, 07:47 AM
Well, first thing is determining what sort of chaotic evil you can play.

If it's one of those "anything goes" PvP-happy groups, then you pretty much just need to be going for the funny while ruthlessly shanking anything and anyone that annoys you. Which is pretty much everything except for Mrs. Butterworth. Snarky and Short-sighted are a good starting point. But keep in mind that in a proper PvP setup, Belk-Ersatz will likely lose out to smarter, more calculating characters.

If you are in a "party first" group, then you need to keep your "evil" more external to the party, but you can still play up the "chaotic" part. The same as above, except the shanking part is everything not the party. The internal strife should be more annoying (and itchy) than deadly, but only so far as it remains amusing for the other players. You can be obnoxious, annoying, and generally a pain, so long as that's towards other characters, but not other players. And be prepared to be on the receiving end of the abuse as well, as that's an essential facet of the character.



Best approach is to go with "Annoying" and "Funny," with a decent dollop of "Mockery." Excessive cruelty to enemies is a big part of the comedic sociopathy. Making hats out of your enemies will capture a fair amount of this, but don't be afraid to branch out. He is also Not Trusting. If somebody does something nice for him, he suspects an ulterior motive. He doesn't get random rewards for good deeds, though he will go to significant effort to help someone he likes. The Belkster is also Impatient, and tends to get bored with plans that don't include lots of stabbing. There's a bit of Leeroy Jenkins to him. But that doesn't mean he can't plan, he just hates being idle.

A more subtle aspect that adds a bit of depth is Celebrating the Chaos (and Evil) in Others. Consider his idolation of Lord Shojo, and defense of Darth V. This is not to say that he accepts or appreciates the violence visited upon him and his allies (except perhaps in an aesthetic sense), as he is surprisingly Possessive of his Allies. You can mock the annoying lawful good members of the party, but if you hurt them (and I mean hurt, not just physically harm them), he will come after you and your loved ones. Well, you at least. He'll probably get bored with the "manually-inflicted Familiacide" pretty quickly. They may be stick-in-the-mud chump doo-gooders, but they're your stick-in-the-mud chump doo-gooders. This also makes it easy (and justifiable) for him to go against world-threatening villains. They're threatening the world! That's where he keeps his stuff!


Hope that gives you some ideas. Best of luck!

JeenLeen
2015-03-30, 08:19 AM
To paraphrase one character from the PC game Arcanum (it's almost not a spoiler, but I'm stickler for not potentially spoiling stuff),
"You'd have to be a fool to go against [ultimate evil dude]. But nobody ever said I wasn't a fool. He wants to destroy all worlds. Half the fun of living is tormenting the souls of the dead."

If the 'big bad' the party is after is wanting to destroy the world, or make some lawful evil imperium, or something that drastically changes the rules, then that ruins his fun. As long as there's fun to be had with the party (namely, killing), he's glad to help out. And he probably won't admit that he likes the party, but I think that Possessive of his Allies is a good point to make.

If you wanted to really stick with Belkar, you could have the animal companion be something relatively weak (like a cat), and he considers it more a friend than a combat companion, though of course he considers it as blood-thirsty if not as capable as himself. I think a badger is one of the animal companions, and I could see that filling a similar niche but also being mechanically useful when you need to fight (and it has Rage, which could fit.) You could have the animal companion's backstory be it was the pet of a friend who was killed. His respect and wanting to protect it is an extension of Possessiveness of his Allies.

EDIT 2: Make sure your DM and the other players are okay with a character like this. Even if a fun concept, it'll get old fast if it makes the other players annoyed.

Raimun
2015-03-30, 09:44 AM
If you want to play an evil character, don't try be Belkar.

Try to be Alucard. You know, from Hellsing Ultimate.

That guy is a total monster, both in the literal and the figurative sense of the word, who fights other monsters. There is a reason why he is working for "the good guys".

So, try to come up with a reason why your evil character shares the interests of his team (the other PCs). That way, you have a reason to want to be in the team. And if want to be in a team? You must be at least an adequate team player. That doesn't mean you can't use excessive and horrible violence against your enemies.

So, as a rule of thumb, try to channel your evil tendencies outside of the team.

Beta Centauri
2015-03-30, 12:10 PM
Easy: "As long as you are not making the game unpleasant for the players or the GM, you can be as evil as you want."

If the players are enjoying the characters' antics, they'll find ways for their characters and the plot to keep him around. If they don't, they'll find reasons he should have to leave. The comic works the same way, but instead of players, there's an audience. The Giant has enough readers who enjoy Belkar's behavior that he has the other characters make choices to keep them around and has the plot make that easier.

mephnick
2015-03-30, 12:12 PM
Good character for a novel or comic strip.

I'd kill him immediately as a fellow PC in an actual D&D game.

Depends on your group.

Beta Centauri
2015-03-30, 12:30 PM
I'd kill him immediately as a fellow PC in an actual D&D game.

Depends on your group. The same could be said about a lot of characters.

It's an interesting challenge, though: given how Belkar behaves and thinks, and that one is playing one of their preferred PCs, what would have to be true - about Belkar, one's character, the setting, the situation, or anything else - for the character not to try to kill Belkar?

For instance, in early strips, Belkar is not a bad asset. He loves to kill and is good at it, so with a steady stream of enemies to deal with things should run smoothly, and give no one in the party any reason to kill him.

So, what would have to be true?

Maglubiyet
2015-03-30, 12:54 PM
Good character for a novel or comic strip.

I'd kill him immediately as a fellow PC in an actual D&D game.

Yes, what's funny in a story doesn't always work in roleplay.

Beta Centauri
2015-03-30, 12:59 PM
Yes, what's funny in a story doesn't always work in roleplay. True, but understanding why and what assumptions are at work is relevant to the original question.

Lacco
2015-03-30, 02:12 PM
I would say that for this setup to work smoothly, you would need to:

get an agreement from GM (and cooperation by giving you direct sign "this is NPC for you to kill mindlessly", so you don't kill any plot relevant NPCs)
agree with one of the PCs on "grudging respect" - i.e. you "respect" (bleach, spit...) him and you will (rolls eyes) accept his commands... in other way, you will not go against his command (e.g. you can snark and scoff from the sideline during negotiations, but until he calls his personal killer psycho to action, your daggers remain behind the belt),
actively try to find reasons IC for you to accept that more than not you will have to remain only passive (badmouthing from the sideline) actor, until it's time to intimidate, maim, kill, hurt (= do your kind of work),
check with the GM if it's proper to break the fourth wall. Belkar does that from what I remember quite often,
think that it's not your mission to bring trouble - that's the others mission. Your is the solving of trouble - usually by multiple stabbings. Wait for your turn and unleash hell.


At least I would expect this from "Belkar" in my game. Remember, you need to remain useful. Also, no PvP in the party - harmless pranks only.

One of the comments I liked was, that Belkar is protective of his party members. Of course. He wants to be the one who jokes about them (and should be the one who kills them), no one else is allowed! :smallbiggrin:

Red Fel
2015-03-30, 02:35 PM
One of the best pieces of advice I can give you is to collaborate with at least one other player on a mutual backstory. Make sure that your PC and that player's PC are long-time friends, and then be sure to act on it. This accomplishes two things. First, it gives your PC a reason to stay with the goody-goodies. Yes, they may be boring sticks-in-the-mud, but they're your friends, and you want to help and protect them, in your own horrifying-yet-amusing way. You argue, you tease, but you care. Second, the opposite is also true - they want to keep you around. Being useful is nice, and all, but if you're disruptive and unpleasant, they're wholly within rights to ditch you. But if your PC is friends with at least one of them, and acts the part, it turns into a case of "He may be a monster, but he's our monster."

Grudging respect is one option, but I've seen it turn into too much "grudging" and not enough "respect." Genuine friendship, on the other hand, allows the PCs to overlook some of your more murderous horrifying stomach-churning sadistic eccentric qualities. And nobody says you have to express friendship like a moral conscientious decent non-psychotic normal person. Just so long as they know you're expressing friendship, and they reciprocate.

That level of possessiveness - by your PC and by the party - is what keeps everyone together. Everything after that is personal flourish.

And by "flourish," I mean "stabbing," and by "personal," I mean "large amounts of."

Jay R
2015-03-30, 02:49 PM
Red Fel is right, but I would go further. Discuss your plans with all the players and the DM, to make sure it would be fun for them, too. You can get away with a lot more with them on your side.

CE man of evil
2015-03-30, 03:37 PM
Wow, i was gone for one night, and when i come back the whole thread is pretty much wrapped up and solved. You guys gave some great input and really helped me figure out how im going to safely and creativly play this character without pissing of my other PC's and with fun for everyone, especially myself, at the table :)

Thanks guys!:smallamused:

Beta Centauri
2015-03-30, 03:47 PM
I would say that for this setup to work smoothly, you would need to: A great list. Nicely done.

goto124
2015-03-30, 07:40 PM
Helps if the murderhobo still loves the living hell out of his/her party members, and listens to them when they say 'Don't kill that guy' or 'behave'?

Lacco
2015-03-31, 02:47 AM
Helps if the murderhobo still loves the living hell out of his/her party members, and listens to them when they say 'Don't kill that guy' or 'behave'?

That surely helps. No problem if he voices his dissatisfaction (IC) with him not killing that guy (preferably in funny way). Still, I would say that the GM's help with tagging no-frills-killable-NPCs/please-kill-him-and-move-the-plot-in-interesting-way NPCs.

I must say, I would like sometimes to have such psycho in my party that I can sic' on some of the NPCs my players want to talk to :smallbiggrin:


A great list. Nicely done.
Thank you. I like making lists :smallbiggrin: