help picking bard spells

[The J Pizzel]

My character is a harper infiltrator spy who uses his entertainer story telling as a way to get in where he needs to.

Party is:
blaster sorcerer - Seriously, this dude loves to blow sh*t up.
great weapon barbarian (insane dps and tank)
rogue 2/death domain cleric 1+ - Fun character so far. Sneaky, uses a bow a lot. His dps isn't bad but he plans on continuing as a cleric. His spell selection will be splotchy. He's already done a good job as a healer, but I see him taking a little of everything the cleric has to offer. Heals, debuffs, battlefield control, maybe even a dps spell now and then.
vengeance pally (tanky with good dps) - dude loves to nova strike
ultimate utility wizzie - This player is swapping to wizzie as i make this character. He's super pumped to be playing an old-school wizzie again (read: not 4E) and plans to take all those awesome buff, de-buff, and utility spells. He'll definitely have a dps spell or two, but it won't be his main. He lives to screw up the combat encounter with things like battlefield control, Ray of Enfeeblement, Banishment, things like that.

me??

My initial design was this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2a980fmn82x99xr/half-elf%20bard%20for%20casey.pdf?dl=0


He's a half-elf Lore Bard with insane skills. I'd def be the skill monkey and party face. I'll have a couple of options for my bonus action. I'm just wondering what spells to take that won't be redundant will all the other spell casters, or if I should just go Valor Bard to help with melee dps. One problem I have is why should I waste my precious spell slots on spells like suggestion or charm person or disguise self or things like that when my skills will almost always be adequate enough to pass off?

All thoughts are welcomed. Concept wise, I'm a Harper recruit who's been in Baldur's Gate investigating the Cult of the Dragon. My cover is that I'm a low ranking ambassador from another kingdom.

[EvanescentHero]

...huh. You have two front-line fighters, a blaster, a utility specialist, and then a decent bit of healing and other support/utility in the form of the cleric/rogue and the paladin. I don't see an obvious gap for you to fill. Valor might not be a bad choice, honestly.

[The J Pizzel]

That's my problem. I know how I'm going to role-play him, and I can honestly do that regardless of the path. I'm just trying to figure if want the armor and extra attack from Valor or the skills and spell-casting from Lore. HELP!!! I've never been a "ranged" person, So I've been thinking Valor might be more the way to go.

[Mara]

Idk , it seems the skill money is most lacking in your group since the rogue seems to be going cleric.

At the same time, tactically your group has less melee than range.

I think you will round off the party better as a valor bard, but it is not like they would not benefit from a lore bard.

[jaydubs]

Most of my bard experience has been at lower levels. But I'm going to list a few of the spells I've gotten a lot of mileage out of.

-Prestidigitation
-Minor Illusion
-Healing Word (I prefer it to cure wounds due to range and bonus action. Great for popping party members back up when they're downed. Let the cleric heal out of combat.)
-Sleep
-Detect Magic (but you should let the wizard use this as a ritual)
-Invisibility (great escape spell at low levels, and helps keep your scouts alive)
-Heat Metal (depends on enemies you face, but demolishes those in metal armor)
-Counterspell
-Dispel Magic

Spells that I now are great but haven't gotten to use as much:

-Dissonant Whispers (give reaction attacks to your allies)
-Faerie Fire (advantage is great)
-Heroism (at low levels)

[EvanescentHero]

That's my problem. I know how I'm going to role-play him, and I can honestly do that regardless of the path. I'm just trying to figure if want the armor and extra attack from Valor or the skills and spell-casting from Lore. HELP!!! I've never been a "ranged" person, So I've been thinking Valor might be more the way to go.

Well, you don't want to play a ranged fighter, and you have fewer melee characters anyway, so I'd say Valor's your best bet here. You just gotta remember that you're not gonna out-damage the barbarian, or likely the paladin, and be okay with that.

[Ionsniper]

Whatever you decide to go with Elemental weapon is a must have choice if you plan on engaging in combat. 3rd level paladin spell that's absolutely nuts. Lore bard would allow you access at 6th level and and Valor at 10th. That spell might even let a lore bard keep pace with Valor bards to some degree.

[WampDiesel]

Long Time Lurker. First Time Poster. I am probably the anti-thesis of a lot of players on here. I love bards, and gnomes. My 3.5 gnome bard is my favorite character I ever made. But enough about me. Let's talk about you. I see you have a feat. Are you starting at level 4? I am assuming you are starting at level 4


My character is a harper infiltrator spy who uses his entertainer story telling as a way to get in where he needs to.

He's a half-elf Lore Bard with insane skills. I'd def be the skill monkey and party face. I'll have a couple of options for my bonus action. I'm just wondering what spells to take that won't be redundant will all the other spell casters, or if I should just go Valor Bard to help with melee dps. One problem I have is why should I waste my precious spell slots on spells like suggestion or charm person or disguise self or things like that when my skills will almost always be adequate enough to pass off?


I don't like charm person as much in 5e because they know that you tried to trick them after the spell is over (might as well just use friends for free) but suggestion can be an absolute savior for when your charisma rolls backfire in your face. Or suggestion can be used to get someone to do something they normally wouldn't if combined with a good persuasion. Out of all the low level social manipulation spells I believe suggestion is the most useful.

My favorite low level bard spells:
Bane: Targets CHA, which most monsters suck at, and makes it harder for your enemies to save vs. the other 3 spellcasters.
Healing Word: Bards can be masters of action economy with multiple ways to use their bonus action. This spell is best used to revive downed allies because the healing it gives isn't great but it can be done at range and as a bonus action. My 5e lore bard stole fly at lvl 6 and when things get hairy I become a medivac.
Dissonant Whispers: Free Opportunity Attacks for everyone! Also psychic dmg which the bard is kind of a specialist at.
Faerie Fire: Approximate 25% better chance to hit for everyone is always nice. Makes it so the barbarian doesn't always have to rage to get his advantage.
Blindness/Deafness: The fact that this isn't concentration makes it good. Can double debuff an enemy if necessary.
Phantasmal Force: If you are creative enough and they fail their save can completely remove one enemy from battle
Enhance Ability: This spell can add to the bards ability to be a Jack of all trades. About to go into tense negotiations? Get Advantage to your CHA. Need to balance along a cliff face and then sneak into a fortified area? Get advantage on DEX (including INITIATIVE!)
Heat Metal: Conditionally amazing. Anyone that is heavily armored will probably hit like a truck and have good hp. This will help your frontliners by imposing disadvantage and by doing damage the enemy cant avoid.
Invisibility: no explanation needed here I think
Silence: so many uses. Disable Casters. Sneak Past. Prevent Eavesdropping. etc...
Suggestion: The best part about this spell is that the only condition is that the suggestion must be reasonable. If you have spent 5 minutes chewing this guys ear off, sometimes the most reasonable thing to him is doing what you want so you will shut up. Haha

Two spells that have been mentioned that I don't like are Heroism and Sleep. These spells scale terribly and you are already starting at a level high enough to start diminishing their usefulness (however sleep could still be used successfully for RP reasons).

If you want to be good at supplemental range damage/secondary caster then I like the build you have assuming your DM allows you to dual wield hand crossbows D3 demon hunter style (some say this breaks their realism and say that section of xbow xpert should only work for a melee weapon and hand xbow). Going a lore bard definitely gives you more versatility in the skills and spells department. However you said you have never been a "ranged" fighter so I would like to propose something else.

Considering that you said you have a blaster caster sorcerer in the party my recommendation is this: Play a valor bard and get the shield mastery feat at lvl 4. The shield AC to Dex saves bumps your already good Dex save higher and allows you to save for no damage against all of the AoE damaging spells the crazy sorcerer might "accidentally" hit you with. It also allows you to drop Dex down, put more points into STR and get expertise in athletics. Now you can use your bonus action to push someone away to avoid an opportunity attack, push an enemy back into the wizard's control spell after they finally escape, or knock the enemy down so the other melees can gang up on him. Once you get to level 6 you can attack an enemy once, use the second attack to grapple them and the bonus action shove to knock them prone. Grappling reduces speed to 0 and getting up from prone requires half your total movement so if they can't break your grapple they cant get up.

This build with shield mastery can be even better if you go lore bard for cutting words to use inspiration to decrease the enemy grapple check and get shield proficiency from some other means (FTR, BARB). But by multiclassing you wouldn't be able to get the feat if you are starting at level 4.

Independent of which bard you choose, considering that half the time you will be using one of your instruments in your performance (so you will be able to get your +2 PB anyway) and assuming that you have a minute to tune up (cast Enhance Ability - CHA) I don't feel like it is necessary to be proficient in performance or even use your expertise there. If you are dedicated to being the best face it would be better served in persuasion (remember what I said about suggestion being the icing on the cake to your social manipulation, if you persuade someone to even consider something they normally wouldn't you can make them do it with suggestion). Also as a "supposed" diplomat I don't know if you need intimidation. Diplomats usually don't go around threatening people. Basically I am saying that because of jack of all trades you don't necessarily need to be proficient in skills where you already have a decent stat. That +2 PB which next level is +3 could do more good elsewhere.

Anyway that is my 2 cp. Hope it helps you make some decisions.