Tinkering with the supermount. Just for fun.

[Metahuman1]

So, let me preface this by saying I don't if this will ever see play. Let alone when, let alone at what level starting and ending. I'm doing this just for the fun of it and due to the tenuous possibility of it happening one of these days.

So.

I'd like to try and Ubermount Build. My ideal race for this cause Irony would be some breed of Halfling or Gnome, but human's acceptable.

Ideally, I'd like this to be a tiger as the basis of the mount. I'd like it to have/be able to do the following:


Horns with a Gore Attack.

Flight (More speed and better maneuverability and carrying capacity the better. Extraordinary ability feather fall form the wings also a nice +.). Ideally from wings.

Swimspeed.

Powerful Build trait/ability.

Hide in Plain Sight.

Stupidly high stealth and scouting ability's.

Paradoxically: Biggest possible size category as it's base size (Can use an Item to get size Category reductions as needed.).

Ability to work Improved unarmed strike

Massive stats and general vibe of this thing being a nigh unstoppable engine of destruction.

Ability to have it take combat maneuver feats like Improved Unarmed Strike/Grapple, Improved Trip, ext, to take advantage of those size modifiers and that strength score.

Ability to get all of that going as quickly/early as possible.



I get that it's something of a tall order, but that's part of the fun! XD! Thanks!

[Aegis013]

Strongheart Halfling both fits your desired race as well as providing the extra feat. It's also helpful because it meets the racial requirement for Halfling Outrider, which is a key component in an optimal Ubermount build.

Also, unless something wild is going on at your table, you're right it'll never see play because for whatever reason, people seem to hate this concept.

Generally, you want to do something along the lines of Paladin 5/Druid 1/Beastmaster 1/Wild Plains Outrider 3/Halfling Outrider 10.
The most important feat to take is Devoted Tracker, which lets you stack your Special Mount benefits and your Animal Companion benefits onto a single target creature. Since Wild Plains Outrider and Halfling Outrider both advance both Special Mount and Animal Companion, you get the benefits of a 18th level Paladin and an 18th level Druid (15+3 from Beastmaster) onto a single creature.

The DMG says at 8th level a Paladin can have a Dire Lion as a mount (pg. 204). You can easily reskin said lion as a tiger (or just use a tiger if the DM approves, the DMG says a Tiger is a capable mount, but may not be willing, so it's a little up in the air. Not to mention odd that a lion would be ok doing it, but not a tiger). I think there's also a guideline somewhere for mounts not mentioned that claims the mount should probably just be roughly (Paladin level)-3 CR.

You can get some of the things you asked for relatively easily, but others are difficult. By piling on the HD, you'll at least achieve a Large base size mount. You can use your wealth for magic items to improve the mount in various ways (horseshoes of flame from Savage Species, Mouthpick Weapons from Lords of Madness). You can also use your feats to improve the companion (Celestial Mount, Shape Soulmeld, Share Soulmeld, among others), and see if the DM will let you select feats for the creature. If you can select feats for the companion and the DM allows, take Vow of Poverty for your Halfling and DCFS away a bunch of exalted feats for a bunch of feats that you can share with the companion, spending the rest of your WBL on magic items to beef up your buddy.

[Judge_Worm]

So if I understand correctly, almost everything in the mount description can be achieved by an adult Gold Dragon. Which can be got as a mount with diplomacy shenanigans.

[Metahuman1]

Shenanigans at the table: Well, if I can get the stealth things worked in that I specified and run it on a Gnome or Halfling or similar, the DM and the Party will roll with it just for the sake of the sheer insanity of having the halfling getting threatened only to have this giant freaking beast materialize out of thin air (Seemingly: cause with hide in plain sight and a really, really, really high Hide and Move Silently check, it's basically unseeable till it drops the stealth.) and very innocently say "I don't think lady fluffington likes you very much." or something similar.

Now, granted, it still has to be the right sort of game for that, but, hey, stranger things have happened.

Now then.

Aegis013: Strongheart Halflign works then.

Hmm, question, would working Obtain Familiar and Improved Familiar work for said build to further beef up the mount?

And Celestial Template is a good idea for getting the Wings, thought it still leaves me at a loss for the horns. And if Tiger is suggested on the list and Dire Lion is explicitly on the list for the Paladin side, and since I know Tiger is explicitly on the list and Dire Tiger if you get high enough level for druid, that should work nicely.

For the swimspeed, water elemental variant for races in Unearthed Arcana maybe applied to the base Tiger/Dire Tiger?

Still not sure about Horns+Gore Attack, Hide In Plain Sight and Powerful Build though. Any thoughts on were/how to land those?



Judge_Worm: I think there's also a feat or two for getting them as a Mount. Not quite what I was looking for, but a possibility. It has flight and the swim speed and is big is out the starting gate and can take feats and is fairly potent as a combatant.

Now, how would I get the Hide in Plain Sight, Gore Attack+Horns and Powerful build?

[Aegis013]

Now, how would I get the Hide in Plain Sight, Gore Attack+Horns and Powerful build?

The only way I can think of to get HiPS on your mount is to equip it with the Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis from Tome of Magic. There's a version that's activated and lasts a few rounds a day, and a version that's continual - either way, it grants the Dark template which grants HiPS (Su). All other sources of HiPS that I'm aware of are class features.

For Horns and a Gore attack, you could give the mount horns by having it select Bind Vestige and Practiced Binder as feats for the Amon vestige. It doesn't actually give a Gore attack, but it gives you Ram Attack, which does damage using the horns on a charge. Alternatively, you could equip your mount with a Horned Helm from MiC, which gives a Gore attack.

I first thought Shape Soulmeld: some Totemist meld would work for the Gore attack, but it looks like only Unicorn Horn bound to the Totem Chakra would do it, which I don't think the mount can get.

As far as powerful build, all I've got is the Jotunbrud feat (from Races of Faerun, same place as Strongheart Halfling). It's a regional feat for certain humans, though if you play with the rule that 2 ranks in Kn: Local qualifies you for the regional prerequisite, then you might get a lenient DM to allow it. It's not literally Powerful Build, but it does what I think you're wanting (+1 size category of modifiers to grapples, and the like, but no wielding bigger weapons). It can only be taken at first level though, so this one is a pretty rough fit.

Edit: On getting your stealth check to absurd levels, consider Shape Soulmeld and Share Soulmeld. Your Mount will already be able to share your Hide skill ranks from Wild Plains Outrider's first level feature Wild Plains Stalker, but a Soulmeld, such as Shape Soulmeld: Kruthik Claws and Share Soulmeld is more beneficial than taking Skill Focus (Hide and Move Silently) as it provides a +4 competence bonus to both checks, and with share soulmeld, it'll be to both you and your mount. Even more if you can find essentia to invest (which can be done via items such as Essentia Helm for a brief time).

Edit 2: As far as I know, there's no reasonable way to get familiar and improved familiar to blend well with this concept.

Edit 3: Swim speed should be relatively easy with items, but a lenient DM might let you make an aquatic/water variant Tiger.

[ZamielVanWeber]

The only way I can think of to get HiPS on your mount is to equip it with the Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis from Tome of Magic. There's a version that's activated and lasts a few rounds a day, and a version that's continual - either way, it grants the Dark template which grants HiPS (Su). All other sources of HiPS that I'm aware of are class features.

If you use the CR-3 rules you could straight up grab a Dark Tiger as a mount. Dark I believe adds 1 CR, so it's not a huge loss.

[Aegis013]

If you use the CR-3 rules you could straight up grab a Dark Tiger as a mount. Dark I believe adds 1 CR, so it's not a huge loss.

That's actually entirely true, and something that entirely slipped my mind. Thank you for that.

[Twurps]

What sources are you allowed to use?

when dragon magazine's are off: the suggestion Aegis made is pretty solid, exept druid and paladin don't go together alignment wise, and you dont really nead druid (Beastmaster gives a better companion). Take a 6th level op pally instead, as it has some nice ACF's for mounts at that level. There's 'Warded' from ECR, and the 'planar paladin' ACF gives your mount the celestial template. (forgot the source).

If dragon magazine is available, take a good look at #325. It has feats to stack caster classes with your mount or companion. build right, and using a dual casting class like mystic theurge this can get you triple advancement of your mount each level. (companion progression, mount progression from devine casting class, mount progression from arcane casting class)

this outclasses the first build by far in 'mount advancing class levels', allowing for bigger/weirder mounts, and gives you good casting progression so you can buff your mount even more.

[Chronos]

The problem with using Kruthik Claws (or other totemist melds) for skills is that they give competence bonuses, which are the most common bonus type for skills, and usually available in higher amounts than the meld gives. For instance, you could just get barding with the Shadow and Silent Moves properties, which will trump anything you can get from the soulmeld.