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View Full Version : Rules Q&A Sovereign Archetypes Abuse?



Threadnaught
2015-03-30, 12:23 PM
I fancy creating a Kobold Artificer build, using Dragonwrought and Flame of the Forge, but in order to get the most out of it, I'd like to implement Warforged Substitution levels in Artificer for the Weapon Familiar.

Is it legal to turn into a Dragonwrought Kobold?


If so, what hoops would I have to jump through to guarantee transformation?


Loredrake Sorcerer and Child of Eberron Wizard are other things that interest me. For obvious reasons.

WhamBamSam
2015-03-30, 01:32 PM
It's tricky to get from a 5th level Warforged to a Kobold that will qualify for Dragonwrought. You might be able to get the first sublevel by starting from a Warforged, getting PAO'd twice, then having your 1st level feat PsyRef'ed to Dragonwrought. It might be possible to do the wight thing, getting back exactly the levels that you lost (ie, take a Warforged Artificer 5, PAO him twice so he's a Kobold now, drain 4 levels from him so he's a 1st level Kobold, Chaos Shuffle him so he has the Dragonwrought feat, then regain the lost levels of Warforged Artificer), but I'm not sure if that actually works off the top of my head.

Apart from everything else that's sort of icky about this, you'll probably end up with a standard array kobold instead of whatever your point buy/rolled stats were in the first place, which is always a little disappointing. Still, the ability mods of a Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold aren't terrible, and you're an Artificer, so maybe it's still worth it.

sleepyphoenixx
2015-03-30, 02:08 PM
Instead of jumping through multiple, incredibly cheesy hoops, can't you just ask your DM to treat weapon familiar as a standard ACF instead of a substitution level?
Because i can't imagine anyone who allows the former having a problem with the latter.

Threadnaught
2015-03-30, 07:30 PM
I've discussed it with one DM of the group, he demanded an RP explanation.

I'll discuss it with the others, but I'm unsure how to go about ignoring Racial Requirements. If I did that and didn't have clear (arbitrary) boundaries, things would get crazy, very quickly.

Arcanist
2015-03-30, 08:07 PM
I've discussed it with one DM of the group, he demanded an RP explanation.

I'll discuss it with the others, but I'm unsure how to go about ignoring Racial Requirements. If I did that and didn't have clear (arbitrary) boundaries, things would get crazy, very quickly.

You're a Kobold from the Argonnessen that has worked with Flames of the Forge and adopted their philosophy to the point where you live and breath your Sovereign Archetype. You're training as a Flame of the Forge has rendered working Retain Essence out as a Artificer redundant... And you worked it out anyway because you're just that bloodied smart. It's GREAT to have a Mentor, ain't it?

Take Apprentice (Craftsmen) from Dungeon Master's Guide II as well to give you that added -5% to all crafting AND to explain backstory stuff.