Practiced Spellcaster + Polymorph into Dusk Giant

[CallMeJefe]

Hello all. I've recently become aware of the Dusk Giant and its Cannibalize(Ex) special attack, which allows it to increase its own HD by consuming other creatures. For every 5HD of sentient(Int 3+) living creatures or 20HD of non-sentient living creatures it consumes, it gains 1HD. As a GM, I'd rule that the increased HD are part and parcel of the monster, and that a caster assuming the monsters form via one spell or another would lose them when the spell ended. That said, would the Practiced Spellcaster feat allow those HD gained through Cannibalize to count towards caster level?
Let's say a 9th level Wizard takes Practiced Spellcaster. His caster level is 9, but could go as high as 13 if he had the HD to accommodate them. He casts Polymorph and assumes the form of a Least Dusk Giant. During the spell, he consumes 15HD of orcs. His HD are increased by 3, to 12. His caster level increases to 12, thanks to Practiced Spellcaster feat. He casts Polymorph(Dusk Giants are capable of speech and have fingers for somatic components) just before the previous casting ends, and can assume a more powerful form than his normal caster level would allow, but his caster level/HD reset once the spell is cast. Is this kosher? Is this too powerful?

[Zanos]

It works just fine. Whether or not it's too powerful depends on how powerful you feel polymorph forms are for you campaign. Assuming the caster has easy access to "food", this effectively allows him to access stronger polymorph forms 4 level sooner.

[Grooke]

Logic seems sound. Breaking a broken spell shouldn't cause that much additional chaos.

[jiriku]

It's not an unreasonable benefit, considering that he's investing a feat to do it and the feat doesn't seem to be doing anything for him outside of this particular combo. That's a pretty clever idea, actually.

[Kraken]

There's tons of easier ways to boost caster level, and tons of more dubious uses for dusk giants. Nothing significant is going on here, but dangerous things lurk in this particular rabbit hole.

[Necroticplague]

Yep, this is entirely kosher. As far as dusk giant abuse goes, this is actually a rather clever, low-key end of things (a more typical example might be 'cannibalize until you gain a feat, DCS it for what amounts to an extra feat permanently. Repeat until you can't pay the XP cost').

Whether it's too powerful depends entirely on the level of the caster to start, how readily available food for this trick is, and what they do with the increased caster level. Since it doesn't grant them any more spells, it doesn't increase their versatility much (outside of spells like polymorph, where its options scale with HD and CL), it just makes them better at what they can already do. For a short time, and assuming certain circumstances come up (not always gonna have a boatload of creatures to eat and time to eat them). I'd file this under 'clever, probably not intended by the devs, but awesome, not game breaking (though possibly abusable)'

[sleepyphoenixx]

Mechanics-wise this is fine. As others have said there are worse ways to abuse polymorph in general and Dusk Giants in particular. There's also a lot more powerful (and/or cheesy) ways to increase CL.

RP-wise i certainly hope your character can justify the fact that he regularly eats sentient creatures for a short-term power boost. Unless you're Evil evil, i guess.

[atemu1234]

There's tons of easier ways to boost caster level, and tons of more dubious uses for dusk giants. Nothing significant is going on here, but dangerous things lurk in this particular rabbit hole.

Yep, the best advice I can give is
" A little knowledge is a terrible thing,
Drink deep, or not taste the pierian spring;
There shallow droughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again."

[Akal Saris]

It could be the best possible reason for a DM to throw gnome giant slayer NPCs into the campaign!

[Dusk Eclipse]

Mechanics-wise this is fine. As others have said there are worse ways to abuse polymorph in general and Dusk Giants in particular. There's also a lot more powerful (and/or cheesy) ways to increase CL.

RP-wise i certainly hope your character can justify the fact that he regularly eats sentient creatures for a short-term power boost. Unless you're Evil evil, i guess.

He doesn't need to eat sentient creatures though, buying a couple hundred chickens or a couple dozens mules for a power boost every now and then doesn't strike me as particularly EVIL, just be careful of Druids.

[sleepyphoenixx]

He doesn't need to eat sentient creatures though, buying a couple hundred chickens or a couple dozens mules for a power boost every now and then doesn't strike me as particularly EVIL, just be careful of Druids.

That would get rather impractical. Polymorph doesn't last that long and you'd need a lot of chickens to get an appreciable boost (and spend time eating them), which may be fine in theory but doesn't strike me as something you'll regularly be able to do in actual play. That's why i assume you're going to eat what enemies you encounter, and chances are that a lot of them will be sentient.

[Shining Wrath]

Yep, this is entirely kosher. As far as dusk giant abuse goes, this is actually a rather clever, low-key end of things (a more typical example might be 'cannibalize until you gain a feat, DCS it for what amounts to an extra feat permanently. Repeat until you can't pay the XP cost').

Whether it's too powerful depends entirely on the level of the caster to start, how readily available food for this trick is, and what they do with the increased caster level. Since it doesn't grant them any more spells, it doesn't increase their versatility much (outside of spells like polymorph, where its options scale with HD and CL), it just makes them better at what they can already do. For a short time, and assuming certain circumstances come up (not always gonna have a boatload of creatures to eat and time to eat them). I'd file this under 'clever, probably not intended by the devs, but awesome, not game breaking (though possibly abusable)'

Since it works with non-sentient animals, anyone capable of casting Polymorph can afford all the 1 HD animals they can eat. You can buy ponies at 30 GP and they have 2 HD, so that's 15 GP per HD. I couldn't find stats for cows but were I to DM them I'd give them 3 HD (like a camel) and a cheaper cost than a trained riding pony (maybe 10 GP), so that's more like 3 GP per HD.

If you only need, say, 100 HD worth of non-sentient life forms you can pull it off for 1,500 GP max.

[Angelmaker]

he doesn't need to eat sentient creatures though, buying a couple hundred chickens or a couple dozens mules for a power boost every now and then doesn't strike me as particularly evil, just be careful of druids.

CHICKEN INFESTED DUSK GIANT! How awesome would that be? *snicker*

[Necroticplague]

Also of note to watch out is that technically, you can loop it for infinite CL. Every 3 HD gives you a feat. If you select Practiced Spellcaster for this feat, you could theoretically increase your CL to forever.

[SinsI]

No, it should work only once:

Special: You may select this feat multiple times. Each time you choose it, you must apply it to a different spellcasting class. For instance, a 4th-level cleric/5th-level wizard who had selected this feat twice would cast cleric spells as an 8th-level caster and wizard spells as a 9th-level caster.

[Lerondiel]

That would get rather impractical. Polymorph doesn't last that long and you'd need a lot of chickens to get an appreciable boost (and spend time eating them), which may be fine in theory but doesn't strike me as something you'll regularly be able to do in actual play. That's why i assume you're going to eat what enemies you encounter, and chances are that a lot of them will be sentient.

Indeed.
Without the spell Persisted and some down time to arrange the logistics of that level of consumption I'd be the type of DM that'd put a big red Fail on this hunk of cheddar. :)