What Spells are We Missing?

[NeoSeraphi]

There have been a few threads discussing what classes and sub classes 5e needs in the future but I want to talk about spells that need to be in the game. Elemental Evil was a good start.

Something noticeably absent is alignment based cleric spells and domains. Clerics are supposed to be able to crush outsiders from planes opposite their gods alignment. But spells like holy word and unholy blight have vanished from the game.

Any other classic d&d spells you're missing from the phb?

[Mara]

Anyone else cringe at 'Elemental Evil'?
Not like the splat material. I mean the word itself. It rubs me the wrong way.

[Yrnes]

It's a throwback to a longstanding (old school!) adventure series that's been present in each edition, to my knowledge.

I love 5e's attention to the older series, particularly the Rod of Seven Parts series, which was my favorite 2nd edition adventure set.

[Feddlefew]

For cleric domains, I think we need the Fortune, Travel, Protection, and Pact domains again. I also think there should be some kind of crafting domain, although I'd like to keep away from an full on creation domain, personally.

There was a thread awhile ago about buffing sorcerers by having the gain a set list of origin associated spells as they leved up, like frost spells for a frost-breathing dragon bloodline and chaotic spells for Wild Magic, but it required porting over a lot of spells from earlier editions or element-swapping existing spells.

[Fwiffo86]

Speaking from the point of view of less is more, I don't think we need more spells. There is plenty of stuff to work with, and anything else can be refluffed as needed. I as a DM don't need 10k spells to be sorting through, and my players certainly don't enjoy doing it either.

Keep it simple. Use your imagination and form things to your narrative.

[Yagyujubei]

Anyone else cringe at 'Elemental Evil'?
Not like the splat material. I mean the word itself. It rubs me the wrong way.

i agree, when I think the word "elemental evil" I think of it as implying the most base and pure form of evil possible, and I know that's not what it means here.

[mephnick]

Not many I hope. We don't need any more power creep for casters. Elemental Evil was bad enough. I really hope it doesn't turn back into 3.5 where every supplement has caster support even if it's supposed to be focused on non-caster specific material.

To the idea of alignment based spells and domains, I highly doubt it's going to happen. 5e has almost entirely eradicated mechanical alignment and is better for it.

[Yrnes]

To the idea of alignment based spells and domains, I highly doubt it's going to happen. 5e has almost entirely eradicated mechanical alignment and is better for it.

You took the words right out of my mouth - there's ways they can make spells work mechanically the same without needing to get into the problems alignment puts on the table.

I don't think 5e needs more spells right away, but it could use more feats and character options. I'd like to see this edition's concept of prestige/paragon classes outside of what's a class exclusive character build.

[Santra]

We definitely need more necromancy spells for wizards. Divination wouldn't hurt either.

[bloodshed343]

We need more evocation spells for damage types other than fire. I had to homebrew a bunch of lightning spells because there weren't enough of them.

[Yrnes]

We need more evocation spells for damage types other than fire. I had to homebrew a bunch of lightning spells because there weren't enough of them.

Take a look at the elemental evil spells for some earth, air, and water spells - a lot of options there, although admittedly a lot more fire stuff too.

[mephnick]

We need more evocation spells for damage types other than fire. I had to homebrew a bunch of lightning spells because there weren't enough of them.

Ok, I do agree with this.

To go with my setting, I've already allowed casters to specialize with certain elements, but the only way to do this is to refluff spells like Fireball into Lightning Ball and Scorching Ray into "hurling pebbles" or some crap. It works, but it would be nice to have enough elemental options to build an evocation caster that wasn't a pyromaniac.

[Ralanr]

To the idea of alignment based spells and domains, I highly doubt it's going to happen. 5e has almost entirely eradicated mechanical alignment and is better for it.

Agreed. Protection/detect good and evil are probably as far as they will go with alignment based spells.


We definitely need more necromancy spells for wizards. Divination wouldn't hurt either.

I don't see why we can't just let necromancy wizards access cleric spells of the necromancy subtype. Like true resurrection (AFB, but I think it's a necromancy spell that's cleric only)


We need more evocation spells for damage types other than fire. I had to homebrew a bunch of lightning spells because there weren't enough of them.

Yes. As much as I'd not like to have more spells, there is a very low variety of elemental types. Though refluffing fire spells to be another type couldn't be too hard. Fireball becomes snowball filled with needles...or a big snowball.

[bloodshed343]

What I did is take ideas from Rift/MTG to modify existing spells. For example: Cyclonic Rift is a slightly better/Higher level Hold Person flavored as trapping the enemy in swirling winds. Forked Lightning is like a more powerful/higher level Magic Missile that deals lightning damage.

[NeoSeraphi]

Not many I hope. We don't need any more power creep for casters. Elemental Evil was bad enough. I really hope it doesn't turn back into 3.5 where every supplement has caster support even if it's supposed to be focused on non-caster specific material.

To the idea of alignment based spells and domains, I highly doubt it's going to happen. 5e has almost entirely eradicated mechanical alignment and is better for it.

Fine but then what about spells that kill outsiders? Fighting off demons, devils, angels and eladrin is as core to the cleric class as turning undead, and I do not think that we should delegate that role to paladins only (especially because paladins don't do bonus Smite damage to celestials)

[Fwiffo86]

Fine but then what about spells that kill outsiders? Fighting off demons, devils, angels and eladrin is as core to the cleric class as turning undead, and I do not think that we should delegate that role to paladins only

Why is that necessary? Clerics have banish, which could be argued as "THE" exorcism spell. And any spell the deals damage, deals damage to outsiders. I would agree that the more martial oriented paladin is doing exactly what he should be doing.

[NeoSeraphi]

Why is that necessary? Clerics have banish, which could be argued as "THE" exorcism spell. And any spell the deals damage, deals damage to outsiders. I would agree that the more martial oriented paladin is doing exactly what he should be doing.

Clerics have, iirc, less than 10 damage spells on their entire list, and they are few and far between in terms of what level they come online.

Paladins can cut down demons with swords, sure, but A) they don't kill attack/harm/deal extra damage to celestials and B) the point of outsiders is their inherent resistance to magic and all kinds of elemental energy. That's why cleric spells exist. 'Any spell that deals damage deals damage to outsiders' unless it's fire damage to a devil, or lightning damage to a demon, or cold damage to an angel, etc. Outsiders have all these resistances because they're supposed to be hard for wizards and sorcerers to kill, to make the cleric's outsider slaying spells more relevant. But if clerics don't have these spells and outsiders still have their resistances and immunities, then it's just one big annoyance.

[Chronos]

The one I miss the most is Shrink Item.

[SharkForce]

a lot of the spells that went missing are likely to stay missing, because concentration makes them kinda useless. others would probably be tremendously broken (waves of fatigue/exhaustion would be hilariously devastating).

[Orvir]

Endure Elements

[Ralanr]

Endure Elements

Should there really be a spell for what a heavy jacket could do? I mean for warmer temperatures sure...I don't know. My group houserules cold/fire resistance as resistant in extreme temperatures.

[Orvir]

Should there really be a spell for what a heavy jacket could do? I mean for warmer temperatures sure...I don't know. My group houserules cold/fire resistance as resistant in extreme temperatures.

That's actually RAW in the DMG. :)

Extreme environments can cause exhaustion, and in 5E that is no joke. For extreme heat it's not as big a deal since it takes heat + lack of water to trigger the con save, and there are several spells that can create water.

Current spell solutions for extreme cold or frigid water are the Resistance Cantrip (gives +1d4 to your con save), Resist Energy (let's you skip one save), or polymorph/shapechange/wildshape into a creature adapted to the environment or with natural resistance/immunity to the damage type. This feels like overkill for a spell used to take the place of a warm coat.

[charcoalninja]

Plus having your caster run around half naked in the arctic is half the fun of magic!

[Ralanr]

That's actually RAW in the DMG. :)

Wait seriously? That's awesome! Suddenly makes the dragonborn energy resistance choice (one of it's two racial abilities) a lot more powerful than I thought.

I don't need to buy a heavy jacket! Ever! Woohoo!

[MrStabby]

I wouldn't mind seeing more ranger spells to support classic builds like two weapon fighting style. A lot go with archery, but few others and general ones.

[goto124]

You took the words right out of my mouth - there's ways they can make spells work mechanically the same without needing to get into the problems alignment puts on the table.

How? If alignment is tied to mechanics, players and DMs will argue endlessly over what their alignment 'is', fighting to get their preferred alignment for their spells/protection/etc. What's the easiest or best way to tackle the problem?


Plus having your caster run around half naked in the arctic is half the fun of magic!

Fanservice justified!

[Cap'n Kobold]

Something noticeably absent is alignment based cleric spells and domains. Clerics are supposed to be able to crush outsiders from planes opposite their gods alignment. But spells like holy word and unholy blight have vanished from the game. Divine Word is still around. Its pretty similar to the effects of Holy Word from previous editions. (HD-based deafening/stunning and banishing outsiders.)

Clerics also get spells such as Banishment and Dispel Evil and Good, both of which are also designed to crush outsiders.

[goto124]

So wait. Only Outsiders get alignments that interact with mechanics, while PCs' alignments are purely fluff?

[Chronos]

Outsiders' alignments don't interact with mechanics, just their types do (and "outsider" itself is no longer a type). Typically, spells that used to work on "outsiders" now work on "celestials, fiends, and fey", plus possibly undead. And there's no further distinction made: Protection from Evil and Good, even if it's cast by goody-two-shoes paladin, interacts with celestials in exactly the same way it interacts with fiends.

[xroads]

Not many I hope. We don't need any more power creep for casters. Elemental Evil was bad enough. I really hope it doesn't turn back into 3.5 where every supplement has caster support even if it's supposed to be focused on non-caster specific material.

To the idea of alignment based spells and domains, I highly doubt it's going to happen. 5e has almost entirely eradicated mechanical alignment and is better for it.

Largely unavoidable I think. In order to continue making money til 6e comes out, they'll have to sell more modules and supplements. What's an easy way to lure a player into buying a new shiny book? Put new shiny spells in it.

But this may be another reason spells are missing in this edition. Perhaps they are planning on releasing them in supplements, to tone down power creep?

[bloodshed343]

Largely unavoidable I think. In order to continue making money til 6e comes out, they'll have to sell more modules and supplements. What's an easy way to lure a player into buying a new shiny book? Put new shiny spells in it.

But this may be another reason spells are missing in this edition. Perhaps they are planning on releasing them in supplements, to tone down power creep?

Next book:

Gygax's Gigantic Gentleman's Gherkin
Level 1 Evocation

One creature within 10' of you takes 100 d12 bludgeoning. No save. Female creatures within one mile are charmed by you, and must make a charisma save with disadvantage vs three times your spell dc or be dominated by you.

[Vogonjeltz]

Outsiders' alignments don't interact with mechanics, just their types do (and "outsider" itself is no longer a type). Typically, spells that used to work on "outsiders" now work on "celestials, fiends, and fey", plus possibly undead. And there's no further distinction made: Protection from Evil and Good, even if it's cast by goody-two-shoes paladin, interacts with celestials in exactly the same way it interacts with fiends.

To be fair, if a Celestial is doing anything that Protection from Evil and Good stops then the Paladin is probably still acting in a good manner.

[Wartex1]

Largely unavoidable I think. In order to continue making money til 6e comes out, they'll have to sell more modules and supplements. What's an easy way to lure a player into buying a new shiny book? Put new shiny spells in it.

But this may be another reason spells are missing in this edition. Perhaps they are planning on releasing them in supplements, to tone down power creep?

To balance it out, they should add new martial feats as well, along with new subclasses, new magic weapons, and new weapon rules.

[Rhaegar14]

We need more evocation spells for damage types other than fire. I had to homebrew a bunch of lightning spells because there weren't enough of them.


I wouldn't mind seeing more ranger spells to support classic builds like two weapon fighting style. A lot go with archery, but few others and general ones.

I second these two. Right now only fire and cold elementalists are really viable, and even without Sharpshooter on the table, the heavy favoritism of the Ranger spell list puts archery above two-weapon fighting in terms of effectiveness (even though the most iconic Ranger in D&D is a two-weapon fighter).

I don't think casters (especially full casters) really need more utility, but anything that makes more builds viable/equitable (such as the above two) is okay in my mind.

[D.U.P.A.]

Chariot of Sustarre.

[Dhavaer]

Steal Life. The ability draining spell from the BoVD that makes you younger. Also elemental spells, as mentioned. I want me some lightning.

[Fwiffo86]

Steal Life. The ability draining spell from the BoVD that makes you younger. Also elemental spells, as mentioned. I want me some lightning.

Potions of life extension. How I miss these. The I got it a 3rd level, and don't use it until I cast my first wish (due to wish aging you 10 years at the time) potion.

Refluff pre-exisiting spells to use a different damage type.

[Naanomi]

Low level summoning spells, hopefully that a sorcerer can access

[Occasional Sage]

Low level summoning spells, hopefully that a sorcerer can access

Gods no. Action economy is so much better without these!

Also, thankful to not see Tenser's Transformation and Divine Might.

[Naanomi]

Gods no. Action economy is so much better without these
Meh make them take concentration or be unable to cast other spells while summoned. 'Summoner' is such a fun concept but sad to see it only come online so late in the game

[Chronos]

Also, thankful to not see Tenser's Transformation and Divine Might.
Right, because it's broken for wizards and clerics to have the same attack bonus as fighters

[Wartex1]

Right, because it's broken for wizards and clerics to have the same attack bonus as fighters

Poe's Law is in full effect here.

[goto124]

Wizards already do overpowered things with their spells.

[Rowan Wolf]

Right, because it's broken for wizards and clerics to have the same attack bonus as fighters

I'd think the issue with those spells at this point that what defines the fighter now isn't his to hit, but his number of attack usable as an action this was where I think they really messed up in the 3e in not creating spells with potentially longer cast times than one round as the attack system (without pounce) was mostly shutdown by the need to move, where other than a handful of spells a caster could warp reality and then move away.

[xroads]

Gods no. Action economy is so much better without these.

Maybe. But the lack of summoning spells early in the game makes it so I've lost a lot of interest in playing a conjurer. Especially since I like playing like an armchair general. :smallfrown:

Oh well. Time to try new and shinier things classes. :smallbiggrin:

[D.U.P.A.]

Will be there conjure constructs spell too?

[SharkForce]

Will be there conjure constructs spell too?

unlikely. with that said, true polymorph kinda does that for the non-golem constructs (and is typically horribly broken if you allow it... technically, you can mass-produce shield guardians at a rate of 1 per day (1 round to make the guardian, 1 hour to concentrate on it, the rest of the day making an amulet if it doesn't come with one). (it won't work for golems because they all have an ability that makes them immune to effects that alter form... like polymorph).

(and practically speaking, it won't work for stuff like shield guardians either, because your DM will either allow it and then instantly punish you for it, or won't allow it if they're sane and reasonable).

[D.U.P.A.]

It is more like because there is a lack of low CR constructs, only modrons so far, all golems are very high level, I had in mind lesser constructs, but we will have to wait for another monster manual or any other source of new monsters.

[Padoodle]

Simbul's Spell Matrix was always fun, imo. Could work with concentration. Also miss a lot of low level, melee-oriented spells like Wraithstrike and Critical Strike.

I dunno, I miss the variety of spells in past editions, especially for low level spells that benefit half and 1/3rd casters, but I admit I also don't like have a million pages of spells to sift through.

[Dhavaer]

Also miss a lot of low level, melee-oriented spells like Wraithstrike and Critical Strike.

How would Wraithstrike work without touch AC? Change it to a reflex save vs attack bonus + 8?

[Rhaegar14]

How would Wraithstrike work without touch AC? Change it to a reflex save vs attack bonus + 8?

Probably just advantage, so True Strike but somehow modified to not be a waste of an action. That's how I would likely do it, at least.

[Padoodle]

Probably just advantage, so True Strike but somehow modified to not be a waste of an action. That's how I would likely do it, at least.

Yeah! Wraithstrike was a swift action before, so a bonus action now could work. That already puts it way above True Strike.

[Rhaegar14]

Yeah! Wraithstrike was a swift action before, so a bonus action now could work. That already puts it way above True Strike.

Bonus action cast, gain advantage on all attacks you make this turn. That'd be a hell of an EK spell for higher levels.

On the whole, as much as I love (and I do mean love) my gishes, the more spell support you give that specific build the more irrelevant mundane melee looks by comparison, and honestly, I do not consider myself enough of an authority to say where the line of too much is.

[Totema]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think WotC has been trying to stay away from alignment-based mechanics since 4e. It seems like they're making it more of a pure roleplaying aspect of the game. Not that I don't miss it myself, to be honest. :smalltongue:

[kaoskonfety]

I like the old alignments spells - but I'm glad they are gone. They destroyed any subtlety and forced the issue in the good vs evil and law vs chaos themes in every game with a cleric (or a wizard who cared) in it unless one went out of the way to remove or hobble them (good old Ravenloft). Some might argue that those were part of D&D from the ground up and I'd yield the point, but the issue of absolute and detectable morality coming up every last time got a bit old.

Cracking open some dusty books a few old favorites that got left behind:
Glassteel
Duo-dimension
Sticks to Snakes (and Snakes to Sticks)
Chariot of Sustarre

[Chrontius]

No Exploding Runes, though the 3e version is uncannily close to being a D&D 5 spell already.

[Grek]

Exploding runes are in. They got folded in with Symbol. Or was it Gylph? They're a suboption for one of the other magical rune spells.

[Padoodle]

I miss Permanency for the sake of Alarm, Phase Doors, and other spells to protect a base while I'm away.

[Totema]

I miss Permanency for the sake of Alarm, Phase Doors, and other spells to protect a base while I'm away.

Permanency has become something sort of "baked-in" for a few spells that can be triggered on a certain condition, usually casting it repeatedly on the same spot or object over a long period of time. Off the top of my head, teleportation circle is one of these spells.

[druid91]

I miss transmute rock to lava.

[Dhavaer]

I miss Permanency for the sake of Alarm, Phase Doors, and other spells to protect a base while I'm away.

Cast Guards and Wards every day for a year and it becomes permanent.

[Ghost Nappa]

Evocations either need more damage types (not all of them but...maybe like two more "main" ones besides Fire).

Beyond that the Divination, Enchantment and Necromancy schools have the least amount of spells: in the high teens.

Personally, I'm surprised there aren't more Divination spells.

[SharkForce]

there have never really been a lot of divination spells.

personally, i miss shadow evocation (and family) and shadow conjuration (and family).

i suppose you could argue they're supposed to be covered by phantasmal force, which i would totally be satisfied by... *if* the damage scaled up appropriately with spell slot level, *and* at some point (say, around level 5 slots) you still took half damage even after passing your investigation check or int save. it still wouldn't be remotely as awesome, but at least it would be in the game in some form. maybe even if it allowed you to trade in damage dice for a limited selection of CC effects resulting from your illusion as well, that would be nice, but all that crammed into one spell is imo unlikely to ever happen.

[Totema]

there have never really been a lot of divination spells.

personally, i miss shadow evocation (and family) and shadow conjuration (and family).

i suppose you could argue they're supposed to be covered by phantasmal force, which i would totally be satisfied by... *if* the damage scaled up appropriately with spell slot level, *and* at some point (say, around level 5 slots) you still took half damage even after passing your investigation check or int save. it still wouldn't be remotely as awesome, but at least it would be in the game in some form. maybe even if it allowed you to trade in damage dice for a limited selection of CC effects resulting from your illusion as well, that would be nice, but all that crammed into one spell is imo unlikely to ever happen. No thanks, shadow spells gave a giant middle finger to actual evokers. (and conjurers too, but evokers didn't need to be obsoleted any further than they already were) I'd prefer if each school of magic stuck to its own schtick, thank you.

[SharkForce]

No thanks, shadow spells gave a giant middle finger to actual evokers. (and conjurers too, but evokers didn't need to be obsoleted any further than they already were) I'd prefer if each school of magic stuck to its own schtick, thank you.

shadow evocation gives an extra set of defences, and only a small portion of the damage dealt was real. as far as I can recall, it only ever covered damage-dealing spells in the original versions, and was terrible at it. and in any event, the best evocation spells have never been damage-dealing, even in second edition; I've turned the tables in much harder fights with web and stinking cloud (both 2nd level evocation spells in 2nd edition) than with fireball or lightning bolt, and I've gotten far more value out of shield than magic missile.

as for shadow conjuration, it's only been particularly good when conjurers have major limitations. it's better than 2nd edition conjuration spells, for example, because 2nd edition conjuration spells are trash with only a handful of exceptions. the best spells for summoning minions in 2nd edition come from alteration, invoc/evoc, necromancy, and illusion, and heck, probably enchant/charm, and a few priest spheres. the problem was never that illusion has summoning spells that don't suck, the problem is that conjuration had almost no summoning spells at all, and the ones that it did have sucked.

furthermore, the "schtick" of illusion pretty much entirely consists of having fake versions of all the other schools. so... semi-real spells that look like the real version or create semi-real illusions of creatures is pretty much exactly in line with what illusion spells should be doing.

[Tvtyrant]

Ritual of Twaining

It was the old AD&D spell which allowed for Wizards to create Owlbears, Duckbunnies, and all of the creatures that the Giant made fun of here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0322.html). That actually took a long time to find for some reason...

[weaseldust]

We could do with more damage-dealing Cleric cantrips. Likewise, Ranger spells that do for melee attacks what Lightning Arrow and Conjure Volley do for ranged attacks.

Spell Turning would be fun to have back in some form. (There could be a lesser version with a mirror as the material component, and then a greater version that required tarrasque hide; perhaps some players wouldn't appreciate it, but I'd enjoy having to complete a really difficult quest, like obtaining bits of tarrasque, before I could cast certain spells.)

There was a Druid spell called Rusting Grasp that let them, well, rust things with their grasp. It seems like the sort of ability a Druid should have, given they've kept their animus against worked metal in 5th.

[Fwiffo86]

We could do with more damage-dealing Cleric cantrips. Likewise, Ranger spells that do for melee attacks what Lightning Arrow and Conjure Volley do for ranged attacks.


I agree with this. But it also makes me want to point at the Paladin as already having done that. Personally, I still think Elemental Weapon should be on the ranger list as well as the paladin.

[Totema]

Oh! Wasn't there a spell in an earlier edition called anvil fall, which is like the opposite of feather fall? That would be fun.

[weaseldust]

I agree with this. But it also makes me want to point at the Paladin as already having done that. Personally, I still think Elemental Weapon should be on the ranger list as well as the paladin.

I see what you mean, though the smite spells don't resemble Conjure Volley and the like all that much. I was imagining more like making swords rise up from the ground, or emerge out of nearby trees, and attack people for you. Or your own sword starts dripping poison. Or your spear turns into a rhino horn and does damage like a charging rhino. Or you cut a hole in the ground and your enemies fall in. That kind of thing.

I agree about Elemental Weapon though. And I'd also forgotten about Ensnaring Strike. The Ranger just needs more spells like that, at higher levels.

[Chronos]

Then again, the paladin ought to get Absorb Elements, too, so it's kind of even.

[arawra]

We could do with more damage-dealing Cleric cantrips.

I find the Cleric list to do just fine with Sacred Flame. There's been arguments that its one of the BETTER spells around. I am kind of wishing I had that instead of Chill Touch as an Evil domain cleric, only because I'm finding it difficult to actually get a hit and use Reaper with it :\

[YossarianLives]

Sticks to snakes!

[bloodshed343]

I would like to see improved versions of Mage Armor.

Example: Penumbra Shroud: Sets AC to 13 + Dex and gives advantage on stealth.

Ego Fortress: sets AC to 15 + cha.

Prescient Aegis: sets AC to 15 + wis.

Calculated Foresight: sets AC to 15 + int.

[SharkForce]

that seems incredibly unlikely. they place way too much value on armour proficiency to give it away like that.

[Fwiffo86]

Sticks to snakes!

This. So completely this.



I would like to see improved versions of Mage Armor.

Example: Penumbra Shroud: Sets AC to 13 + Dex and gives advantage on stealth.

Ego Fortress: sets AC to 15 + cha.

Prescient Aegis: sets AC to 15 + wis.

Calculated Foresight: sets AC to 15 + int.

Hmmmm, I can't help but notice that all of your versions of Mage Armor have superior base AC. I have no real issue with this (except the dex one). But I see no reason not to allow "variations" using different base attributes just to throw some variety to my wizards. I wouldn't improve the AC. But giving the Wiz 13+Int would be nice.

[Wartex1]

No, giving 13+INT is overpowering.

[Fwiffo86]

13 + 5 = 18.

How is this overpowering?

[Wartex1]

Because it's a Wizard.

That's like giving him Plate armor, and it scales off of his primary ability score, without the strength requirement, and without the stealth penalty.

[Solusek]

Ruby Ray of Reversal! One of my favorites.

[MrStabby]

13 + 5 = 18.

How is this overpowering?

Well it falls into the old trap of finding something that someone else is good at and make a wizard as good at because "magic". Once you let even the squishiest people get AC equal to frontline melee fighters you lose the differentiation between classes.

[Naanomi]

Well it falls into the old trap of finding something that someone else is good at and make a wizard as good at because "magic". Once you let even the squishiest people get AC equal to frontline melee fighters you lose the differentiation between classes.
Might work with a short duration and concentration requirement

[SharkForce]

Might work with a short duration and concentration requirement

at that point, what's the point? haste already gives +2 to AC and other bonuses. shield of faith gives +2 AC and is cast as a reaction. either one will be better than a 15+dex short duration concentration required mage armour when you simply combine them with regular mage armour.

[Naanomi]

at that point, what's the point? haste already gives +2 to AC and other bonuses. shield of faith gives +2 AC and is cast as a reaction. either one will be better than a 15+dex short duration concentration required mage armour when you simply combine them with regular mage armour.
Meh make it short duration or concentration then

Or use one of the defensive spells you listed

Just don't make plate armor one more victim to 'magic is just better'; valor bards and thier shields will be sporting their 20 AC proudly when they poach the spell if it is just 'mage armor but better'

[SharkForce]

so long as we're acting like heavy armour proficiency is in some way a worthwhile class feature to compete with high level spellcasting, i suppose yes, that is the only solution available.

so long as heavy armour proficiency remains something that is available at level 1, i don't see that goal being very easily attainable though.

but in any event, as the game currently exists, i agree that we shouldn't just hand out armour spells.

[Millface]

For me the biggest "what the heck are they thinking" moment was when I noticed Dimensional Anchor was missing. After a year of playing this campaign my villains can usually teleport/planeshift and without something the party can use to keep them in place defeating a smart bad guy becomes nigh impossible. He's just going to run and regroup, and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Fwiffo86]

For me the biggest "what the heck are they thinking" moment was when I noticed Dimensional Anchor was missing. After a year of playing this campaign my villains can usually teleport/planeshift and without something the party can use to keep them in place defeating a smart bad guy becomes nigh impossible. He's just going to run and regroup, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Require all "port" magic to take 10 minutes to cast.

[Naanomi]

For me the biggest "what the heck are they thinking" moment was when I noticed Dimensional Anchor was missing. After a year of playing this campaign my villains can usually teleport/planeshift and without something the party can use to keep them in place defeating a smart bad guy becomes nigh impossible. He's just going to run and regroup, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Counter spell and silence are ever important in hunting a spellcaster, if for nothing else than preventing the escape

[Ralanr]

Counter spell and silence are ever important in hunting a spellcaster, if for nothing else than preventing the escape

And hallow, if you have the opportunity to set up an ambush ahead of time.

[Chronos]

Forcecage also now includes a dimensional anchor effect. Which is the only thing that differentiates it from Wall of Force, which can also now imprison someone.