PDA

View Full Version : Is there a Cure for the Dual Wielding blues?



Scubasteve0209
2007-04-12, 05:46 PM
Long Story short: I built a TWF Ranger/Scout and went down the Spring Attack path.

Now I realize I can't use my spring attack to it's full potential. I get one attack on the run, which is fine for my scout ability, but no nifty extra attacks. What can I do to resolve this?

Here's the build.
Levels
Scout:1
Ranger:5
Prestige Class:2

Feats:
Two Weapon Fighting (ranger)
Dodge (level)
Mobility (level)
Endurance (ranger)
Spring Attack (level)

Dreyden
2007-04-12, 05:48 PM
I'm pretty sure there's a feat in Complete Adventurer, I think it's called Dual Strike, that lets you make one attack with each hand on a spring attack.

Counterspin
2007-04-12, 05:49 PM
Two weapon pounce from PHB II will give you two attacks when you charge.

TheOOB
2007-04-12, 05:56 PM
Dual-Wielding is usually a poor idea unless you have a source of extra damage other then skirmish, and spring attack is very rarely ever a good feat.

There is some hope however.

The Tempest class from complete adventurer has several abilities that makes TWF more appealing, including Two-Weapon Spring Attack. Added Bonus, Tempest is only 5 levels.

The Dual Strike feat, also from complete adventurer, allows you to make an attack with both weapons as a standard action, however it's not usuable with spring attack.

Another option, and perhaps the best option is the dervish class from complete warrior, they gain spring attack as a bonus feat, and gain a special ability that allows them to move and get a full attack at the same time, with extra damage to each attack if your weapons are slashing. Best part, not only is the class made to dual wield well, it acually gains the ability to treat scimitars as light weapons, which are nasty to wield together.

A dervish with two scimitars of wounding can take out most equal level living targets in only one round.

Jannex
2007-04-12, 06:20 PM
Yeah, Dervish from Complete Warrior is probably your best bet. It's a great deal of fun, as well. I suggest working toward it.

Matthew
2007-04-12, 06:33 PM
Well, you have only actually invested one Class Feature into Two Weapon Fighting. Don't worry about it. Try using a Two Handed Weapon and Spiked Armour to make an additional Off Hand Attack (it's allowed, sadly) or using your Weapon Two Handed and only drawing a second weapon when the opportunity presents itself.

Cruiser1
2007-04-12, 06:42 PM
If you have Spring Attack, the Bounding Assault (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060501a&page=4) feat from PHB II allows you to attack twice when you actually make use use of Spring Attack. Note that feat doesn't require you to be dual wielding to actually be able to attack twice, but it's still very effective for when you're not full attacking.

Scubasteve0209
2007-04-12, 06:48 PM
Unfortunately the Dervish and Tempest Prestige classes would be a hard sell for my DM. He's very much a believer in character driven leveling, and nothing about my character would suggest either of those classes.

Plus the world is of his own design so it'd have to fit with his concept (kind of a Raveloft meets post-medieval russia with hints of Iron Kingdoms). Like I said, hard sell.

I do however like the Bounding Assault or Two-Weapon pounce idea though. The rules state that it's two attacks on the charge right? how would that play into the spring attack rules?

Matthew
2007-04-12, 06:50 PM
You need +12 BAB to purchase Bounding Assault, I think.

Quick Draw is really what you need. Whenever you have the opportunity to make a Full Attack, change to single handed use and draw a secondary weapon.

TheOOB
2007-04-12, 07:09 PM
He's very much a believer in character driven leveling, and nothing about my character would suggest either of those classes.

I can understand how it might be hard to justify taking the dervish class without a dancing/desert nomad backround, but why not the tempest? All the tempest class represents is intense training with two-weapons, there is no more fluff inherient within it then the fighter class.

AtomicKitKat
2007-04-12, 07:39 PM
Dervishes hailed from the Middle East. Turkey was/is part of the Middle East. Ivan the Terrible used to impale Turks. Ergo, Dervish is only barely an outsider in post-medieval Russia. ;P

Scubasteve0209
2007-04-12, 08:56 PM
..... touche

Counterspin
2007-04-13, 12:47 AM
I never understand why people are so eager to tie together the fluff and the system on Prcs. Why can't you play the dervish class and claim it's part of a gypsy martial art, or something learned from a water spirit, or a martial art created by mimicing the very mists of ravenloft? You can spread almost any fluff over almost any crunch.

Aquillion
2007-04-13, 01:04 AM
I never understand why people are so eager to tie together the fluff and the system on Prcs. Why can't you play the dervish class and claim it's part of a gypsy martial art, or something learned from a water spirit, or a martial art created by mimicing the very mists of ravenloft? You can spread almost any fluff over almost any crunch.Eh. It's easy to say that, but at the end of the day a classes' mechanics generally fit their theme. Take monks, for instance--they're Bruce Lee. There's only so much you can do to disguise the fact that they're Bruce Lee. I can see a DM just not wanting to have to deal with a character shouting AYAI! and punching armored warriors in the chest hard enough to stop their heart three hours later or whatever.

...but, yeah, Dervish might just fit into this setting better than you'd think. Especially in something Ravenloft-inspired, where you can really fit literally anything in by saying it was snatched up by the mists from someplace else. In this case, you could say that you learn it from a crazy old survivor of a war with a nearby realm or something similar.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-04-13, 05:15 AM
I never understand why people are so eager to tie together the fluff and the system on Prcs. Why can't you play the dervish class and claim it's part of a gypsy martial art, or something learned from a water spirit, or a martial art created by mimicing the very mists of ravenloft? You can spread almost any fluff over almost any crunch.

It depends. If you're a Pale Master then you're a master of necromantic energy who specialises in grafts. You can't change that. Also some Prcs are designed around fluff, like Thayan Knight or Incantrix. Then there are Prcs like Eldritch Knight or Tempest that don't have to effect anything but your stats. The Thayan Knight is adaptable with some work while most people ignore the Incantrix' fluff. You shouldn't be allowed into a Prc that represents a member of a specific guild unless you're actually part of that guild.

Counterspin
2007-04-13, 02:55 PM
You shouldn't be allowed into a Prc that represents a member of a specific guild unless you're actually part of that guild.

Again, why not? While it's true that some things can't be worked around (if you don't like unarmed fighters monks are no good), the vast majority of stuff can be worked with minimal effort. Unless it's vital to the storyline that certain class abilities be restricted to certain groups, I don't see why you'ld worry about it. If you think the class is balanced, I've never seen why you would deny it to a character. Let them have fun I say.

Annarrkkii
2007-04-13, 08:22 PM
The universal answer:

BUY TOME OF BATTLE! Tiger Claw is your friend.

But short of that, Tempest is a solid bet. Dual Strike can also help out.

If you can talk your DM into it, this (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/featsform.pl) has some other, less-core feats compiled into it. Do a search on the phrase "two weapons" on the page, and you might come up with something.

Manir
2007-04-14, 09:07 AM
I can see a few ways to get through this.
A. Requires ToB
Use Leaping Dragon Stance(Tiger Claw) + Sudden Leap(Tiger Claw)
This lets you jump as a swift action, which then lets you skirmish with a full-attack.
B. Requires MIC
Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker
It lets you move as a swift action. Once per day, though.

the_tick_rules
2007-04-14, 05:11 PM
tempest was already recommened. but i fiund some extra fun for TWFers. get improved buckler defense. it's a feat that let's you keep the buckler AC when you use that hand, ya still take the neg 1 though.

Cybren
2007-04-14, 05:27 PM
Eh. It's easy to say that, but at the end of the day a classes' mechanics generally fit their theme. Take monks, for instance--they're Bruce Lee. There's only so much you can do to disguise the fact that they're Bruce Lee. I can see a DM just not wanting to have to deal with a character shouting AYAI! and punching armored warriors in the chest hard enough to stop their heart three hours later or whatever.

...but, yeah, Dervish might just fit into this setting better than you'd think. Especially in something Ravenloft-inspired, where you can really fit literally anything in by saying it was snatched up by the mists from someplace else. In this case, you could say that you learn it from a crazy old survivor of a war with a nearby realm or something similar.
No, Monks are more like Jet Li, than Bruce Lee considering the nature of Bruce Lees philosophy and training, as well as the subjects of his films