Artificers! Ride a Mech! Lasers Pew Pew!

[Halcyon_Dax]

We are going to start an Ebberon campaign at some point and I have been thinking of making an artificer.

While I'm not usually one to think of power level before flavor, I'm having trouble picturing how an artificer contributes during an adventure. They seem to be indispensable allies in between adventures, but how do they hold up in combat or dungeons?

Is the amount of craft xp given enough to help their party yet remain effective themselves?

Any thoughts would be helpful. I have tons and tons of fun ideas for things to make with an artificer, I'm just worried it that I wont be able to really help out the party that much.


Thanks.

[Indon]

Supposedly, they have a good spell list?

That's the impression I get from this forum. I've never actually played one or even examined the class.

[Halcyon_Dax]

I'm looking at the spell list... its okay. Not that powerful if I'm understanding how they cast correctly. 1 min for each infusion? 6 level is their highest?

Someone correct me please!

[Innis Cabal]

no idea, i dont care for eberron but from what i get from this forum they are one of the "uber" class's

[Nerd-o-rama]

In between adventures, Artificers make Wands of spells that an equal level Wizard won't be able to cast for two more levels, thus quite powerful for blasting or buffing. Then, they use their Metamagic Item infusion to add any given metamagic (say, Twin Spell) to the wand for combat, potentially doubling its power or more.

Basically, Artificers, in addition to being fairly capable skill monkeys, are damage machines at their level if their DM gives them any sort of leeway in cash or time.

I'm not fully aware of the specifics, but that's the general basis. Wands of Twinned Fireball at level three, and going up from there.

[Halcyon_Dax]

Ahhhh! lol, I really really want to play one, yet i cant figure out their uberness!


For god sake, one of you plinky experts show me the error of my ways.


Edit: Thanks Nerd_o_Rama 0_o

[Nerd-o-rama]

Note: Wands of Twinned Fireball at level 3 may be impossible. I didn't look up the infusion level of Metamagic Item, but the principle is there.

[Jacob Orlove]

The stupid broken things Artificers can do are explained here: http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewthread?forum=1&thread=862

Spending your time doing 80d6 damage to something is cute, but you can do a lot worse with the class.

[LeeMon]

I haven't gotten to play one yet, but I've done research as a result of one in my campaign taking a much more significant focus than I originally intended.

Some things I noticed:
* At 1st level they can use Weapon Augmentation to apply any weapon ability worth a +1 bonus to a weapon. A very useful choice for this is simply Bane for whatever enemy you're facing, giving you (or your fighter) +2 to hit and +2d6+2 damage... again, at first level.
* At 5th level they can use the Metamagic Item infusion to apply any metamagic feat they know to a wand, at no additional cost, for 1 round/level.
* At 6th level they can use the Metamagic Spell Trigger class ability to apply metamagic feats to wands by burning more charges. This (to my understanding) stacks with the Metamagic Item infusion.

So, to use the example I got once, which I keep repeating: Take a 9th-level artificer with Empower Spell, Twin Spell, and Wand Mastery (adds 2 to caster level for wands). Start with a wand of Searing Light, caster level 5. Use the Metamagic Item infusion to put Twin Spell on the wand. Activate the Metamagic Spell Trigger class ability and apply Empower Spell to the wand, burning two extra charges. The combined effect (with Wand Mastery) is a CL7, Twinned, Empowered Searing Light. CL 7 means the spell does two rays; Empowered means it does two more. That's 4 rays at 4d6 damage each, plus the damage is increased to 150% by Empower... 24d6 damage (or 1.5 x 16d6 depending on your love of math).

And that's at 9th level. Total "portion of wand spent" wand cost: 450gp if purchased new, 225gp and 18xp from craft reserve if made by you.

So, my understanding of the class is that you perform all of the Wizard stuff (other than casting big spells) better than the Wizard does... wand use, crafting things, and most of all, always being able to come into any situation with the right magic, given sufficient time to prepare.

And, as others point out, I'm probably not maxing things out completely.

P.S. Halcyon_Dax: you can spend an action point to cast a long infusion in 1 round.

[I_Got_This_Name]

Also, Artificers, as I understand it, use normal casting times for infusions. However, the general rule is that an infusion that appears on the Artificer list and no other list (exclusively an infusion, not a spell) will have a long casting time, although most infusions I've looked at have been exceptions to that rule.

(Edit: It's not the damage, or the infusions, that break them. It's the ability to pull spells from any spell list so long as Artificer Level + 2 >= minimum level to cast the spell from that list, giving you every cheese every other caster has ever had, including a few that were, until then, unique perks to make up for the Mystic Theurge sucking (although I can't think of any at this time), at the cost of a slight bit of EXP that they give you for free and some cash that you get back on always crafting your items)

[Jacob Orlove]

Simple examples include grabbing Holy Sword off the Paladin list as a 5th level Artificer (gives you a +5, Holy weapon), or Heal as a 7th level Artificer off of the Adept spell list.

It gets a lot worse when you look at non-core PrCs and spells.

[LeeMon]

Just to be clear: they can't actually CAST those spells, right? They can only make magic items with them.

So the core "broken" ability of the class is to craft wands, scrolls, and magic items of literally any type, and do so cheaply and (in some cases) before any other class could even use those spells.

Do I have it right?

[asqwasqw]

Yeah, but they can use the crafted items to cast the spell (I think). A wand of fireball still deals as much damage as fireball.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Just to be clear: they can't actually CAST those spells, right? They can only make magic items with them.

So the core "broken" ability of the class is to craft wands, scrolls, and magic items of literally any type, and do so cheaply and (in some cases) before any other class could even use those spells.

Do I have it right?
And they can, of course, use these items with Use Magic Device without any great difficulty.

[Jacob Orlove]

Actually, they get access to spells two levels before the regular class all the time, but in some cases they can go dumpster diving into some random spell list and get access to it four, six, even ten levels before the class with that spell on its list gets access.

Consider Otto's Irresistible Dance. Normally, a Wizard could get this spell at level 15, when he first gets access to 8th level spells. Thus, an Artificer could get access at level 13, two levels sooner. However, Bards get Otto's Dance as a 6th level spell, which means they can cast it at level 16 (with a decent Cha). Basically, the same as the Wizard. However, the Artificer can now grab Otto's Dance as a 6th level spell, which requires him to be only level 9 (two below 11, which is the "normal" level for 6th level spells). Suddenly, the Artificer is getting Otto's Dance not the normal (and still outrageous) two levels early, but a full six levels early, just because Bards have a different casting progression from Wizards.

[Hunter Noventa]

Infusions, while taking some time to cast, are amazing if you know what you're up against in advance.

Let me give you an example, we found out we were going to be going up against a hydra that would be a 1 or 2 CR above our party level. What happens? The artificer hits everyone who meleees with Bane: Magical Beast (or whatever type a hydra is, I think that's it) and we trounce it without too much trouble.

They also can save a ton of money if you get downtime, as not only can they craft thigns, they get bonus feats to reduce crafting costs. Considering that they can 'disenchant' any useless items you find for more reserve xp, your parties' only true limit on magic items will be money and time.

[Ramza00]

Don't forget metamagic infusion allows you to apply persist spells to your wands and staffs.

All the interesting lists are open to an artificer.
I can get Dispel Magic as a 1st lvl spell from the trapsmith.
I can get Greater Mighty Wallop from Wizard 3.
I can get Hunter's Eye from the Ranger 2.
I can get Polymorph from Wizard 4 or a couple divine lists.
I can get Divine Power off Cleric 4.
I can get Bite of the Wearboar from Druid 4 (+4 strength, +6 con, +8 natural armor, and blindfight)
I can get Bite of the Wererat from Druid 2 (+6 to Dex, weapon finese and some other benefits Wereboar supersedes)I can get all these spells on the same character at lvl 5. Lvl 5 amazingly is the first lvl you can start getting persistent happy. Will have to wait till lvl 7 with Draconic Polymorph to persist Polymorph though, (remember Draconic Polymorph also gives +8 untyped bonus to strength and +2 to con)

And this is the bufficer, you still can do the blastoficer pretty much on the same character (maybe not to the same extent but reasonable well)

[Jacob Orlove]

Note that you can cast Holy Sword on "your sword, or any other melee weapon you choose." It's also low enough level that you can put it in a wand, and then Reach Spell + Chain Spell it onto everyone's weapons. At level 6. That's a +5 Holy weapon or three for every party member, at the beginning of every fight.

This would happen at level 5 (you can get just the wand at that point), but you need Metamagic Spell Trigger as well as Metamagic Item, since you can't Chain touch spells.

[lacesmcawesome]

Not much experience with artificers. But our DM is using one as the DMPC and he holds up alright in battle. He's really good with infusions. I remember that we had a fight that was going horribly, and he infused our weapons (forgot what it was exactly) gave us both +2 weapons for a minute, so we owned the enemies in a few rounds. Yea, it doesn't last long, but it's still not bad.

[Shrew]

Quick question, does globe on invul. still work against spells cast from a wand? I do not remember.

[Rigeld2]

Umm... yes? Why wouldnt it?

[PinkysBrain]

Consider Otto's Irresistible Dance. Normally, a Wizard could get this spell at level 15, when he first gets access to 8th level spells. Thus, an Artificer could get access at level 13, two levels sooner. However, Bards get Otto's Dance as a 6th level spell, which means they can cast it at level 16 (with a decent Cha). Basically, the same as the Wizard. However, the Artificer can now grab Otto's Dance as a 6th level spell, which requires him to be only level 9 (two below 11, which is the "normal" level for 6th level spells). Suddenly, the Artificer is getting Otto's Dance not the normal (and still outrageous) two levels early, but a full six levels early, just because Bards have a different casting progression from Wizards.
Actually this is not quite true, the limiting factor in creating scrolls (and other spell reproducing items) is the caster level prerequisite. Since the bard has full caster level progression the minimum caster level for a 6th level bard spell is still 16. Where things get wonky is with half caster level classes (paladin/ranger) and with prestige classes with independent spellcasting (ur-priest).

In the campaign I played we simply houseruled that if a spell was present on a full casting base class that was the one which had to be used for making spell reproducing items (and thus to set the caster level prerequisite).

[Jacob Orlove]

Sorry, you're right; I was thinking of the Bard spells on the Assassin and Blackguard lists, but my mind jumped to the level discrepancy on Otto's Dance.

But still, the main problem is that they get access to stuff at least two levels earlier than anyone else. Sometimes, they get stuff much sooner than that, but they don't even need to abuse PrC spell lists to get crazy. They certainly can, which is terrible, but it's not actually necessary.

[PinkysBrain]

They can craft scrolls 2 levels earlier ... but you could just buy those scrolls too.

[Ramza00]

Actually this is not quite true, the limiting factor in creating scrolls (and other spell reproducing items) is the caster level prerequisite. Since the bard has full caster level progression the minimum caster level for a 6th level bard spell is still 16. Where things get wonky is with half caster level classes (paladin/ranger) and with prestige classes with independent spellcasting (ur-priest).

In the campaign I played we simply houseruled that if a spell was present on a full casting base class that was the one which had to be used for making spell reproducing items (and thus to set the caster level prerequisite).

Yes, it is spells from the assassin prc list, divine crusader prc (since its caster level equal to its class level thus 9th lvl caster level gets you miracle or any 9th lvl domain spells), trapsmith prc, ur priest, and a couple others which I am now forgetting.

[OzymandiasVolt]

An artificer may be able to craft a wand of fireball at 3rd level, but he pays 5th level price for it, and its caster level is treated as 3. This is obviously less of a problem when dealing with spells that don't change much based on caster level.