Clistenes
2015-03-31, 01:20 PM
Some time ago I tried to gather all the lore that there is about the "non-intervention pact" that forbids deities to act directy on Oerth. This post pretty much includes all I found:
1-Greater Deities very rarely intercede directly in the affairs of mortals.
In general, the greater gods are too far removed from the world to have much to do with humanity, and while they are worshipped, few people hold them as patrons.
These deities have been known to intercede directly in the affairs of men, but only if these affairs have a direct and crucial bearing upon the concerns of the deity. Even so, the annals of the historians list only a few such instances in the history of the Flanaess.
Deities have weighty affairs to attend to, and in general they can not be bothered with the trivial needs of a party of lowly mortals.
2.-Demigods and quasi-deities are more likely to intercede directly.
However, under certain circunstances, a demi-god and a godling might well become embroiled in human afffairs.
3.-Powerful deities DO send avatars to do do their bidding on Oerth.
An avatar is a physical manifestation of a god created when a deity infuses part of its life force into a physical form. Greater deities have been known to use as many as three avatars at the same time. Lesser deities have never been known to use more than one. Demigods cannot use avatars…
Some deities keep several avatars on their home planes, in case one is destroyed. (Destroying an avatar does not harm a deity in any way, however.)…
Deities send avatars to the Prime Material Plane in order to influence, help, or instruct their worshippers…
4.-But this is a very rare event:
On Oerth, even the appearance of a Power's avatar is extremely rare. Oerth is a world where mortals suffer, triumph and perish without the Powers favoring or opposing them by direct action.
5.-Also, most of the avatars described in Greyhawk Adventures (1988), have the power of just mere mortals.
For example, Boccob’s avatar has 14 HD and Caster Level 18.
Boccob’s Avatar:
HD 14; THACO 13; SPA MU 18; MV 18”; AC -2; hp 62; #AT 1; Dmg ld6 + 1 to 4 (strength bonus + variable magical bonus); MR 50%; SZ M; Str 16, Int 20, Wis 18, Dex 18, Con, 16, Cha 18
But this seems to be only by choice:
Only the most common avatar for each deity is listed here, but avatars of considerably greater power are known to exist.
For example, Boccob’s avatar is described by Deities & Demigods as a Wizard 20 / Cleric 20 with Divine Rank 8:
Avatar of Boccob: As Boccob, except divine rank 8
6.-Avatars try to be discreet and conceal their divine nature:
Many of the greatest heroes of any race of people or intelligent creatures were avatars sent to help that race. Each avatar will take great pains not to reveal that they are part deity…
…Avatars usually appear in desolate areas and move towards the people they would protect.
So they could visit Oerth more often that we know of, they just are very secretive about it.
7.-The gods seem to hold a pact of non-intervention. Only the weakest deities and those who are native to Oerth are allowed to visit it instead of sending a mere avatar:
Finally, no god above demigod level may enter the Prime Material Plane of Oerth without the consensus of a majority of the gods of Oerth. A few exceptions to this are Ehlonna, Fharlanghn, Obad-Hai, and Olidammara (who chose the Prime Material Plane as their native realm rather than one of the outer planes), Beory (who may actually be the Oerth itself), and…
8.-Also, no deity or his/her avatar may directly attack one of those gods native to Oerth on Oerth’s own soil:
…it is almost a Law of the Powers that they do not intervene directly in the Prime Material to strike at a deity which has its being there. The key word, of course, is directly.
9.-The reason for that would be to avoid a Divine War that would destroy Oerth:
Rather, the good Powers of Greyhawk empower their servants to oppose Iuz. To this end, they grant spells and special powers, such as those of priests and the protection from evil and healing skills of paladins. if they did more, then evil deities would regard it as fair game to do more likewise. Oerth would become a battleground of the Powers and might ultimately be destroyed.
10.-On the other hand, avatar-on-avatar violence is fair game (but let’s remember, those usually are weak avatars).
For some unknown reason, the city of Greyhawk gets an unusual amount of attention from these deities-at least one of these beings usually has an avatar in the city. Many ballads tell of awe-inspiring confrontations between avatars of opposing alignments on the city’s crowded streets. Needless to say those streets needed considerable repair when the battle was done.
11.-St Cuthbert has obtained permission from the Greater Gods to act directly against Iuz, but that has gotten him indebted to the evil Greater Gods:
There is one exception to this non-intervention law. St. Cuthbert of the Cudgel has been allowed to strike against Iuz, when his avatar assisted those imprisoning Iuz in 505CY. That St. Cuthbert would wish to fight Iuz is not unexpected. Of the "martial" lawful good Powers, Heironeous has his great struggle with his hated brother Hextor, while other lawful good Powers are more peaceable and kindly; guiders and protectors rather than warriors. But St. Cuthbert is a doughty, tough fighter, and he hates Iuz's chaotic evil nature. That he was allowed to strike against the Old One is surprising. He could only have done so if powerful evil Powers agreed to this, for all Powers must agree to such an action. Istus could tell us that Incabulos cared not, but that Nerull's croaking voice was decisive in giving permission.
One final point bears stressing here. On Oerth, if a Power acts directly with the permission of the other Powers (and the Greater Powers are the ones who really count), that Power and its allies are then indebted to the others. When evil Powers allow a good Power to act directly, good Powers may at some later time have to stand back and allow an evil Power the same opportunity. Small wonder that such direct actions are rare! Whether St. Cuthbert can, or would wish to, appear to combat Iuz again, only Istus can say.
But not even St Cuthbert has fought Iuz directly, only through his avatar:
St. Cuthbert has become actively aware of events (and has indirect assistance from Beory, who resists elemental destruction). The enmity between Iuz and St. Cuthbert may yet result in direct confrontation.
12.-A deity native to Oerth can also keep a realm in the Outer Planes were his worshippers come to rest after their deaths: Olidammara keeps The Den of Olidammara in Ysgard, Obad-hai keeps the The Hidden Wood in the Outlands and Ehlonna keeps the Grove of the Unicorns in the Beastlands (Krigala)
So Mayaheine, being a demigoddess, can visit Oerth, but is not allowed to directly attack Iuz. Since avatars are allowed to fight each other on the streets of Greyhawk, I guess Mayaheine can fight Iuz's minions too, but not Iuz himself, since he's native to Oerth and she isn't allowed to lay a finger on him (Iuz, on the other hand, is probably allowed to attack Mayaheine, who isn't native to Oerth).
That would explain how come Iuz hasn't still won (some of the other demigods and hero-gods and the avatars of more powerful gods must be sabotaging his efforts) and also why the other powers native to Oerth don't gang on him and destroy him (nobody can directly attack a deity native to Oerth).
I guess they keep a mutual destruction balance of sorts: If Iuz teleports to Chendl and smites everybody there casting a bajizillion times his at-will spell-like attacks Confusion, Create Undead, Summon Monster IX, Unholy Blight, Word of Chaos and Blasphemy, Mayaheine would raze Dorakaa to the ground.
That's quite a bit of information but, on a re-read I realized that this gives little information about what the gods or their avatars are allowed to do in the Prime Material Plane.
The only things we know are forbidden for sure are: For extraplanar deities of rank above Demigod to enter Oerth, and for any deity to try to directly kill another deity that is native to Oerth.
The only things that are confirmed as allowed are: To send weak avatars to Oerth and to empower clerics and paladins.
That isn't much.
Trying to find more information, I realized that, while Iuz has 1.-punished or rewarded his servants at his pleasure; 2.-summoned demons to act as officers and shock troops; 3.-directed the strategy of his armies and 4.-used trickery to make the northen barbarians fight his enemies, he hasn't ever used his power directly to destroy the armies and capitals of his enemies...
So which are your thoughts? Could Iuz blast an army using his magic without breaking the pact of non-intervention? Go crazy with his Blasphemy and Create Undead spell-like attacks and turn a whole city of good people into undead? Personally cast Desecrate or Unhallow on a chunk of his territory on Flanaess? Could he personally craft an Iron Colossus and send it against his enemies? Personally craft Weirdstones to protect Doraaka?
Do any of you know if Iuz or Vecna have ever directly used their magic that way?
Thanks in advance.
1-Greater Deities very rarely intercede directly in the affairs of mortals.
In general, the greater gods are too far removed from the world to have much to do with humanity, and while they are worshipped, few people hold them as patrons.
These deities have been known to intercede directly in the affairs of men, but only if these affairs have a direct and crucial bearing upon the concerns of the deity. Even so, the annals of the historians list only a few such instances in the history of the Flanaess.
Deities have weighty affairs to attend to, and in general they can not be bothered with the trivial needs of a party of lowly mortals.
2.-Demigods and quasi-deities are more likely to intercede directly.
However, under certain circunstances, a demi-god and a godling might well become embroiled in human afffairs.
3.-Powerful deities DO send avatars to do do their bidding on Oerth.
An avatar is a physical manifestation of a god created when a deity infuses part of its life force into a physical form. Greater deities have been known to use as many as three avatars at the same time. Lesser deities have never been known to use more than one. Demigods cannot use avatars…
Some deities keep several avatars on their home planes, in case one is destroyed. (Destroying an avatar does not harm a deity in any way, however.)…
Deities send avatars to the Prime Material Plane in order to influence, help, or instruct their worshippers…
4.-But this is a very rare event:
On Oerth, even the appearance of a Power's avatar is extremely rare. Oerth is a world where mortals suffer, triumph and perish without the Powers favoring or opposing them by direct action.
5.-Also, most of the avatars described in Greyhawk Adventures (1988), have the power of just mere mortals.
For example, Boccob’s avatar has 14 HD and Caster Level 18.
Boccob’s Avatar:
HD 14; THACO 13; SPA MU 18; MV 18”; AC -2; hp 62; #AT 1; Dmg ld6 + 1 to 4 (strength bonus + variable magical bonus); MR 50%; SZ M; Str 16, Int 20, Wis 18, Dex 18, Con, 16, Cha 18
But this seems to be only by choice:
Only the most common avatar for each deity is listed here, but avatars of considerably greater power are known to exist.
For example, Boccob’s avatar is described by Deities & Demigods as a Wizard 20 / Cleric 20 with Divine Rank 8:
Avatar of Boccob: As Boccob, except divine rank 8
6.-Avatars try to be discreet and conceal their divine nature:
Many of the greatest heroes of any race of people or intelligent creatures were avatars sent to help that race. Each avatar will take great pains not to reveal that they are part deity…
…Avatars usually appear in desolate areas and move towards the people they would protect.
So they could visit Oerth more often that we know of, they just are very secretive about it.
7.-The gods seem to hold a pact of non-intervention. Only the weakest deities and those who are native to Oerth are allowed to visit it instead of sending a mere avatar:
Finally, no god above demigod level may enter the Prime Material Plane of Oerth without the consensus of a majority of the gods of Oerth. A few exceptions to this are Ehlonna, Fharlanghn, Obad-Hai, and Olidammara (who chose the Prime Material Plane as their native realm rather than one of the outer planes), Beory (who may actually be the Oerth itself), and…
8.-Also, no deity or his/her avatar may directly attack one of those gods native to Oerth on Oerth’s own soil:
…it is almost a Law of the Powers that they do not intervene directly in the Prime Material to strike at a deity which has its being there. The key word, of course, is directly.
9.-The reason for that would be to avoid a Divine War that would destroy Oerth:
Rather, the good Powers of Greyhawk empower their servants to oppose Iuz. To this end, they grant spells and special powers, such as those of priests and the protection from evil and healing skills of paladins. if they did more, then evil deities would regard it as fair game to do more likewise. Oerth would become a battleground of the Powers and might ultimately be destroyed.
10.-On the other hand, avatar-on-avatar violence is fair game (but let’s remember, those usually are weak avatars).
For some unknown reason, the city of Greyhawk gets an unusual amount of attention from these deities-at least one of these beings usually has an avatar in the city. Many ballads tell of awe-inspiring confrontations between avatars of opposing alignments on the city’s crowded streets. Needless to say those streets needed considerable repair when the battle was done.
11.-St Cuthbert has obtained permission from the Greater Gods to act directly against Iuz, but that has gotten him indebted to the evil Greater Gods:
There is one exception to this non-intervention law. St. Cuthbert of the Cudgel has been allowed to strike against Iuz, when his avatar assisted those imprisoning Iuz in 505CY. That St. Cuthbert would wish to fight Iuz is not unexpected. Of the "martial" lawful good Powers, Heironeous has his great struggle with his hated brother Hextor, while other lawful good Powers are more peaceable and kindly; guiders and protectors rather than warriors. But St. Cuthbert is a doughty, tough fighter, and he hates Iuz's chaotic evil nature. That he was allowed to strike against the Old One is surprising. He could only have done so if powerful evil Powers agreed to this, for all Powers must agree to such an action. Istus could tell us that Incabulos cared not, but that Nerull's croaking voice was decisive in giving permission.
One final point bears stressing here. On Oerth, if a Power acts directly with the permission of the other Powers (and the Greater Powers are the ones who really count), that Power and its allies are then indebted to the others. When evil Powers allow a good Power to act directly, good Powers may at some later time have to stand back and allow an evil Power the same opportunity. Small wonder that such direct actions are rare! Whether St. Cuthbert can, or would wish to, appear to combat Iuz again, only Istus can say.
But not even St Cuthbert has fought Iuz directly, only through his avatar:
St. Cuthbert has become actively aware of events (and has indirect assistance from Beory, who resists elemental destruction). The enmity between Iuz and St. Cuthbert may yet result in direct confrontation.
12.-A deity native to Oerth can also keep a realm in the Outer Planes were his worshippers come to rest after their deaths: Olidammara keeps The Den of Olidammara in Ysgard, Obad-hai keeps the The Hidden Wood in the Outlands and Ehlonna keeps the Grove of the Unicorns in the Beastlands (Krigala)
So Mayaheine, being a demigoddess, can visit Oerth, but is not allowed to directly attack Iuz. Since avatars are allowed to fight each other on the streets of Greyhawk, I guess Mayaheine can fight Iuz's minions too, but not Iuz himself, since he's native to Oerth and she isn't allowed to lay a finger on him (Iuz, on the other hand, is probably allowed to attack Mayaheine, who isn't native to Oerth).
That would explain how come Iuz hasn't still won (some of the other demigods and hero-gods and the avatars of more powerful gods must be sabotaging his efforts) and also why the other powers native to Oerth don't gang on him and destroy him (nobody can directly attack a deity native to Oerth).
I guess they keep a mutual destruction balance of sorts: If Iuz teleports to Chendl and smites everybody there casting a bajizillion times his at-will spell-like attacks Confusion, Create Undead, Summon Monster IX, Unholy Blight, Word of Chaos and Blasphemy, Mayaheine would raze Dorakaa to the ground.
That's quite a bit of information but, on a re-read I realized that this gives little information about what the gods or their avatars are allowed to do in the Prime Material Plane.
The only things we know are forbidden for sure are: For extraplanar deities of rank above Demigod to enter Oerth, and for any deity to try to directly kill another deity that is native to Oerth.
The only things that are confirmed as allowed are: To send weak avatars to Oerth and to empower clerics and paladins.
That isn't much.
Trying to find more information, I realized that, while Iuz has 1.-punished or rewarded his servants at his pleasure; 2.-summoned demons to act as officers and shock troops; 3.-directed the strategy of his armies and 4.-used trickery to make the northen barbarians fight his enemies, he hasn't ever used his power directly to destroy the armies and capitals of his enemies...
So which are your thoughts? Could Iuz blast an army using his magic without breaking the pact of non-intervention? Go crazy with his Blasphemy and Create Undead spell-like attacks and turn a whole city of good people into undead? Personally cast Desecrate or Unhallow on a chunk of his territory on Flanaess? Could he personally craft an Iron Colossus and send it against his enemies? Personally craft Weirdstones to protect Doraaka?
Do any of you know if Iuz or Vecna have ever directly used their magic that way?
Thanks in advance.