[3.5] Healer vs. Cleric

[Thurbane]

Is it possible to build a Healer (MH) that is actually better at healing than a Cleric optimized for the job?

Cheers - T

[dextercorvia]

Is it possible to build a Healer (MH) that is actually better at healing than a Cleric optimized for the job?

Cheers - T

Only if you have a DM that is cool with adding off list healing spells to the Healer's spell list. Even then, I'm not sure it would be enough.

[sideswipe]

of course, you both have the spell heal :smallwink:

edit - sorry mis-read the OP, i thought you said as good as.

[Chronos]

Well, a Healer gets a handful of spells at a lower level than the cleric does, and adds Cha to healing, and that's about it.

I suppose that the Healer is a better healer than the cleric at level 9 or 10, by virtue of having access to the Heal spell when the cleric doesn't. Healing makes such a big jump in quality at that point that it just might make up for the cleric's advantages.

I'd be tempted to say that the Healer also briefly pulls ahead when she gets Mass Heal, but by that time, a proper healing cleric is packing such goodies as Fortunate Fate and Stalwart Pact, which the Healer can't get access to. Actually, come to think of it, Stalwart Pact is online already at level 11, so the cleric might still be ahead there.

[Troacctid]

The Healer only has two notable advantages. One, they add a few extra points of healing to their spells, via their Healing Hands ability. (This is a useful boost at low levels, but quickly diminishes in relevance as hit points and damage scale up.) And two, they get a companion who can cast additional healing spells, giving them some measure of additional action economy.

[Kantolin]

A healer the class gets four main things over a cleric:
- Healing Hands
- Skill Focus Heal as a bonus feat
- 2 more skill points per level

These have to compete with domains, which also can offer bonus feats as well as nondivine buffs, turning, which is used to power a large amount of things, and a much more robust spell list for both healing and buffing.

And spontaneous healing, poor healer.

(And a higher BAB and armour proficiencies, but I'm not sure how valuable those are for specifically a healer)

The healer has a unicorn, but a cleric can get at a unicorn in a half dozen different methods if he really wants one so I'm not sure if that's a big perk for the healer. But at a glance, some of the other companions look like they might have spellcasting, which could thus be a thing. Perhaps looking at things to bolster the companion may help?

If your GM is polite and allows the healer to get at several out of book healing spells (I'm fond of Darts of Life from the Complete Champion and Healing Spirit from the PHB2 for direct healing), then they at least kind of can keep up. And they do get mass heal a level early, which is very much a thing if you can get to level 15.

The trouble with 'better than a cleric' is that a cleric can take everything a healer can, to my knowledge. I mean, you can make a useful healer by focusing on sanctified spells if they're on the table, or by expanding the healer's spell list, but whatever you're doing to accomplish these things could also be done by a cleric. This is also true if you just decreed 'healers have the cleric spell list verbatum' - like, if their spell lists were perfectly in sync (with the healer keeping the heal/mass discounts), then unless it had the prereq of skill focus(heal) the cleric would still be 'a better healer' due to domains and turning.

I suppose if your charisma was sufficiently absurd you could heal for more than a cleric (1d8+30+Caster level would be a lot!), but if your charisma is sufficiently absurd then there'd be so much that could be done that it's not really worth analyzing.

Now that said, you can certainly make a healer who's a /decent/ healer. You could also go for contemplative for a domain and go for a couple methods of getting turning, which generally will get you parity with a cleric who isn't spending nearly that much effort on it.

Healing Hands + Augment Healing combine wonderfully with darts of life and healing spirit, as a note. Same with things like imbued healing.

[A.A.King]

I think it will be pretty hard for the Healer to beat the fact that a Cleric gets to spontaneously cast Cure spells. It's even harder to beat an optimised Healer Cleric seeing as he will be able to spontaneously cast Restoration spells. An optimised healer might win when it comes to total amount of hit points possible to cure, but the cleric will be much more likely to have the right spell prepared and won't run out of healing/restoration power until he runs out of spells.

[Thurbane]

The cleric can also use various feats to use Turn attempts to heal as well.

[Optimator]

I dunno, I mean things like that one Healing Domain feat, War Weaver, Reach Spell, Quicken Spell... all are done better with Cleric. I can't really think of a way :/

[Blackhawk748]

Honestly, i cannot fathom what WotC was thinking by making the Healer prepared. Seriously WTH?? I had a player play one once and i used an expanded spell list (theres one floating around here somewhere...) and made them Spontaneous. Made the party a lot happier and it made the Healer fairly decent.

IIRC the expanded list included a few buffs and whatnot basically making the Healer a "White Mage" and a walking undead nuke.

[Kantolin]

Is there a (decent) prestige class that requires skill focus (heal) out there?

If so, unless it's on a domain, that gives the healer a single feat advantage over a cleric. Said healer could then spend that feat advantage on spontaneous curing or entry into a second prestige class or something.

And you know, at level 12, having a 7th level cleric on standby isn't awful (especially if your DM rules that you can get at it at level 9 via natural bond). If you can select the water naga's spells, that becomes 7th level sorceror casting.

Now um... unfortunately, their casting would halt there. If the DM rules that their casting progresses, then the minicaster in the healer's pocket becomes a more noticable edge. If not, if they can take practiced spellcaster then that could help. If also not, then at least they can use minor spellcasting.

(Of course, the cleric has a series of spells to get at these creatures if he really wants to so that's not really a 'compare to cleric' clause, just a 'this is useful' clause).

[Akal Saris]

As other have said, with a DM willing to allow sanctified spells and permit healers to use the SpC spells per the SpC guidelines (shameless self-plug: my sig's guide has some example spell lists), then the healer can probably close the gap to within a miniscule degree, and possibly surpass the cleric, especially considering the options for healers to pick up domains via prestige classes, and their early access to mass heal, for example.

Of course, one might say that there's no real reason why a cleric would need to try so hard to compete with the healer on this, since they can spend spells/feats more effectively elsewhere :P

[Afgncaap5]

I played an optimized healer once.

You can make the argument that a Cleric can out-optimize a Healer. That's great. But... I dunno. I was healing so much damage so quickly that it almost seems like an irrelevant question. If you can heal over 100% of an ally's max health without even rolling, often retroactively healing so the damage isn't even happening, then... well... I suppose there's some sort of benefit to optimizing "more" beyond that point if you really want to. Bigger numbers look more impressive than the merely Big numbers, after all.

The Healer's only real problem, as I see it (and as my group laughingly phrased it when I played the character) is that the Healer is cripplingly over specialized and can't rain down angry divine fire from the skies.

Oh, and not being a spontaneous caster. That's annoying. Not game breaking by any means, but definitely annoying in a sort of "I'd rather be tactical than strategic" sort of way. (Though considering the fact that the Healer has no limits on "spells known", if memory serves, it's reasonable to find it annoying.)

[atemu1234]

All that's good about the healer is pretty much already listed, though I'll add this:

The fact that the Healer is outright supposed to be more peaceful and loving than the cleric leads me to think it works very well with Exalted campaigns (No, not that exalted).

[Hecuba]

The central workhorses of optimized in-combat healing in 3.5 (such as it is) are generally:

Mastery of Day and Night
Prophecy's Shepard
Lesser Vigor
Heal/Mass Heal
(and maybe Prophecy's Shaper if you have the feats)

There are some other very nice spells- like the previously mentioned darts of life, which is used as a free action- but on their own they won't swing the balance significantly.

The result of these is maximizing and quickening (and maybe empowering) your cure line -- which makes them worth casting and leaves your standard action available for more important spells like the Lesser Vigor or Heal (or getting out that initial cast of darts of life).

Healers do not get Lesser Vigor and need to jump through some significant hoops to manage Prophecy's Shepard - which requires spontaneous cure conversion.