Gestalt - Charismatic Cleric

[Gwazi Magnum]

Basically following Gestalt rule's (with all books including 3rd party allowed, but no online homebrew) I'm wondering what people think of the following idea and have to add to it.

Starting Level 5.

Class Progression 1: Cleric 5 (No specific Deity)
Class Progression 2: Bard 1/Paladin 2/Battle Dancer 1/Dragonfire Adept 1
Free Racial Template (DM Granted): PF Dread Vampire

Feats:
Level 1 - Divine Metamagic
Human - Sacred Performer
Flaw 1 - Lost Tradition (Cleric/Charisma)
Flaw 2 - Persistent Spell
Undeath Domain - Extra Turning
Planning Domain - Extend Spell
Level 3 - Dragonfire Inspiration
Level 6 - Noble Scion
Level 9 - ???
Level 12 - ???
Level 15 - ???
Level 18 - ???

The Goal?
Lost Tradition = CHA -> Spellcasting
Paladin 2 = CHA -> Saving Throws
Battle Dancer 1 = CHA -> AC
Pathfinder Undead = CHA -> HP
Noble Scion = CHA -> Initiative
Divine Metamagic/Persistent Spell = Turn attempts for all day long buffs
Sacred Performer = Bardic Music for Cleric
Dragonfire Inspiration = 2 stackable kinds of Dragonfire Inspiration

The basic idea of the whole build being to base most things off of Charisma, while at the same time being fairly capable at buffing people via persistent spell and bardic music.
With a side of using left over turn attempts on raising an undead army.

[UmpteenthDoctor]

Dynamic priest switches a divine spellcaster to cha and is from dragonlance. Its more likely to get by dms.

Also remember dread vampire is a cr 3 which means at level 5 you will be dread vamp 3/cleric 2.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Dynamic priest switches a divine spellcaster to cha and is from dragonlance. Its more likely to get by dms.

Also remember dread vampire is a cr 3 which means at level 5 you will be dread vamp 3/cleric 2.

That's true with Dynamic priest.

Though the dread vampire is a free (DM approved) template.
It's on it's own third progression scale so it's not getting in the way of Cleric.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'd be a little concerned about Sacred Performer-- it's skating dangerously close to the "no dual-progression PrC" ban. Luckily, it shouldn't be a huge loss, since you can go straight Cleric/Turning-advancing PrC on one side, and you really only need a few levels of Bard to get enough music uses to last you all day. As a replacement suggestion, how 'bout Charming The Arrow? It's basically Zen Archery for Charisma, although you'll need a Fey race like Killoren to qualify.

[Gwazi Magnum]

I'd be a little concerned about Sacred Performer-- it's skating dangerously close to the "no dual-progression PrC" ban. Luckily, it shouldn't be a huge loss, since you can go straight Cleric/Turning-advancing PrC on one side, and you really only need a few levels of Bard to get enough music uses to last you all day. As a replacement suggestion, how 'bout Charming The Arrow? It's basically Zen Archery for Charisma, although you'll need a Fey race like Killoren to qualify.

I considered charming arrow. I was considering grabbing it later since accuracy was a lesser priority to surviviability, and control.

Though I thought the ban was against going into two prestige classes at once, not that it was no prestige classes which enhance two classes.

[Madbranch]

I think inquisitor can add Charisma to initiative at 2nd level.

EDIT:
Nevermind, it's wisdom. Ignore me.

EDIT2:
Either way, you already got it with Noble Scion.

EDIT3: To make this a bit more useful. Consider dipping in Oracle with Nature mystery for Nature's Whisperer revelation. Charisma instead of Dex to AC and CMD.

[atemu1234]

I think inquisitor can add Charisma to initiative at 2nd level.

EDIT:
Nevermind, it's wisdom. Ignore me.

EDIT2:
Either way, you already got it with Noble Scion.

EDIT3: To make this a bit more useful. Consider dipping in Oracle with Nature mystery for Nature's Whisperer revelation. Charisma instead of Dex to AC and CMD.

All the edits. They make me both happy and sad.

Mostly happy.

[Hiro Quester]

Persistent Spell has a prerequisite of extend spell.

Do you have enough turning attempts to persist spells at that low level? It might pay to take persistent spell later on, when you have enough turning attempts to power it well.

Edit: also Sacred Performer is getting close to advancing two classes too. When it says that Bard and cleric levels stack for bardic music and turning, I'd assume that this should cap at your character level.

[Angelmaker]

I considered charming arrow. I was considering grabbing it later since accuracy was a lesser priority to surviviability, and control.

Though I thought the ban was against going into two prestige classes at once, not that it was no prestige classes which enhance two classes.

When going gestalt, classes like mystic theurge are explicitly banned for dual spellcaster progression.

[Rebel7284]

In general, your build is good with a powerful caster base and defensive abilities that don't take an action from the other "side" of the gestalt.

Some comments:
- You seem to have some alignment issues. Paladin (LG), Template (Any Evil), Bard (Any nonlawful), Battle Dancer(Any Chaotic).
I guess this works if either (a) Your DM completely ignores alignment or (b) you are Chaotic Evil and take Paladin of Slaughter from UA instead of regular Paladin.
- Sacred Performer, while stacking for bardic music uses, doesn't seem to actually progress the power of bardic music itself. Thus dragonfire inspiration is not worth it.
- Hexblade 2 is another nice class to stack your saves in the future.

Some questions:
- Are you planning to go any prestige class later?
- What spells were you thinking of persisting?

[ComaVision]

Persistent Spell has a prerequisite of extend spell.

Do you have enough turning attempts to persist spells at that low level? It might pay to take persistent spell later on, when you have enough turning attempts to power it well.

Edit: also Sacred Performer is getting close to advancing two classes too. When it says that Bard and cleric levels stack for bardic music and turning, I'd assume that this should cap at your character level.

Came to say this.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Persistent Spell has a prerequisite of extend spell.

Do you have enough turning attempts to persist spells at that low level? It might pay to take persistent spell later on, when you have enough turning attempts to power it well.

Edit: also Sacred Performer is getting close to advancing two classes too. When it says that Bard and cleric levels stack for bardic music and turning, I'd assume that this should cap at your character level.

Planning Domain is giving me extend spell.

And Sacred Performer is intended to cap at character level.
The feats only there so I can level Cleric alongside it rather than invest a ton of levels into Bard.


When going gestalt, classes like mystic theurge are explicitly banned for dual spellcaster progression.

So as long as it's not dual progression I can in fact go into two prestige classes at once?



- You seem to have some alignment issues. Paladin (LG), Template (Any Evil), Bard (Any nonlawful), Battle Dancer(Any Chaotic).

Unearthed Arcana Paladin Variant, make him Chaotic Evil.
I forgot to mention that in the OP though.


- Sacred Performer, while stacking for bardic music uses, doesn't seem to actually progress the power of bardic music itself. Thus dragonfire inspiration is not worth it.
- Hexblade 2 is another nice class to stack your saves in the future.

I was wondering if that was the case. :/
If so I'd probably grab the other Bard/Cleric feat at level 6 to allow it to scale.


- Are you planning to go any prestige class later?
- What spells were you thinking of persisting?

Wasn't too sure with Prestige, a skim over didn't show anything too alluring.

The Persist were meant to be any ability score enhancement, size enhancement, BAB enhancement etc.
Which I persist would vary day per day.

[Grod_The_Giant]

And Sacred Performer is intended to cap at character level.
The feats only there so I can level Cleric alongside it rather than invest a ton of levels into Bard.
Eh, you only need 3-4 to get enough music to use in every fight and enough slots for a couple inspirational boosts. Shame you're going evil, though-- you're losing out on Words of Creation. Song of the Heart + Inspirational Boost + Badge of Valor gets you +4 inspire courage, though, which isn't rotten.

[Lerondiel]

.....Hexblade 2 is another nice class to stack your saves in the future.

Hehe, and make it a Succubis while you're at it then keep piling on the Force of Personality, Snowflake Wardancing etc :D

[Vhaidara]

Unearthed Arcana Paladin Variant, make him Chaotic Evil.
I forgot to mention that in the OP though.

This is a bad plan. Have you read your code of conduct? You fall if you DON'T commit an evil act. So, every time you see someone and don't murder them, you have passed up on the chance to perform an evil act, and thus you fall.

Also, you'll want to look over this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?125732-3-x-X-stat-to-Y-bonus)

[Rebel7284]

This is a bad plan. Have you read your code of conduct? You fall if you DON'T commit an evil act. So, every time you see someone and don't murder them, you have passed up on the chance to perform an evil act, and thus you fall.

Also, you'll want to look over this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?125732-3-x-X-stat-to-Y-bonus)

Eh? That's like saying that a regular paladin will give away all his money to every beggar he sees. Sure you will try to harm as many innocents as you can without derailing your main plot, but you don't have to try to kill EVERYONE. I guess your DMs mileage may vary though.

And yes, that thread is gold.

As for prestige classes, Geomancer can be cute in gestalt if you can pull it off with Paladin 4 and Battle Blessing. Free quicken on all your spells is good. :)
Contemplative is always a nice dip.
Eventually going into Sublime Chord could be nice to pick up Ruin Delver's Fortune, Celerity, etc.
Shadowcraft Mage (cabal of illusionists adaptation) is always good, can be a bit feat heavy to take full advantage of though.
Ruby Knight Vindicator is always amazing for tanking, but may be too "double progression" for some.

Also, you may be interested in the feat Occular Spell. It sounds like you want to persist buffs on your allies. Normally, touch spells are NOT persistable. Turning them into fixed ranged eye rays makes them persistable. :)