Looking for advice on player "Estates" and downtime.

[SanguisAevum]

Playgrounders... i need your help and advice, please.

I have a 9th level Paladin in my current game.

Long story short, he has done enough to be awarded a small Earldom.

He has...

A manour House with estate and the accompanying title (Earl of Greenwood)
A seperate small ruined keep that historically garisoned a trade route through the forrest in his lands. (Greenwood keep)
The Duchess has granted him the Maor / Title, and rights to the keep, on the proviso that he re-establish the keep and make the forrest safe again.

My current thinking is this.

The Manor House is allready established and running.
The keep will require repairs constituting HALF of the gold cost and build time for a small keep as indicated on the "establishing a stronghold" table.

He also has plans to build "way stations" along the road through the forrest, which i equate to being "Inns" and so they will require the appropriate costs and time to build as per the table.

This means he will have upkeep to take into account.

The Manour house
The small Keep
Any waystations he builds.

However, it follows that he SHOULD be getting income from all this as well.

The waystations could be treated as Inns, and thus potentially offset their upkeep and generate profit as per the running a business table.

What i am having trouble with is the earldom.

Obviously, nobles make money from there estates / vassels. but how do i work it out?

I think the options are...

1 - Run the "earldom" as a whole business - if i do this how do i figure out how much it makes using the presented rules for running a business in the DMG?

2 - Work out how many business the earldom consists of (commoner farms, inns, tradeposts, etc) and then work out how much they make, and then let him tax them as he sees fit.

thoughts?
any of you approached this in your games yet?

[Townopolis]

There's an older thread around here somewhere that deals with this in greater detail and with better analysis, but a major issue with the way property is handled in the DMG is that they exist to drain resources except possibly during times when the PC has a month to devote to micromanaging it. Under "Total Cost per Day" (DMG 127) the book states that "If the property earns money that can offset maintenance costs... that is taken into account on the table." Meaning that, for example, the income your paladin will enjoy for each rural inn he owns is -10gp per day, because it costs 10gp/day more to run such an inn than it makes in revenue (unless the PC spends downtime running it, in which case whichever business he runs might produce a flat profit, which incidentally is the same regardless of what kind of business it is. Farms are the best).

It's more-or-less as stupid as the default crafting rules. Your paladin would be better off if you just threw the normal rules out and declared that the domain just took care of itself and just provided the PC with a little bonus prestige and a place to stash his ettin head collection.

Edit: under "Business" (DMG 127), the book also states that "adventurer-owned business can earn enough money to cover its own maintenance costs" which seems to be in direct violated to the previously quoted section. What constitutes a business? I don't know.

[SanguisAevum]

There's an older thread around here somewhere that deals with this in greater detail and with better analysis, but a major issue with the way property is handled in the DMG is that they exist to drain resources except possibly during times when the PC has a month to devote to micromanaging it. Under "Total Cost per Day" (DMG 127) the book states that "If the property earns money that can offset maintenance costs... that is taken into account on the table." Meaning that, for example, the income your paladin will enjoy for each rural inn he owns is -10gp per day, because it costs 10gp/day more to run such an inn than it makes in revenue (unless the PC spends downtime running it, in which case whichever business he runs might produce a flat profit, which incidentally is the same regardless of what kind of business it is. Farms are the best).

It's more-or-less as stupid as the default crafting rules. Your paladin would be better off if you just threw the normal rules out and declared that the domain just took care of itself and just provided the PC with a little bonus prestige and a place to stash his ettin head collection.

Edit: under "Business" (DMG 127), the book also states that "adventurer-owned business can earn enough money to cover its own maintenance costs" which seems to be in direct violated to the previously quoted section. What constitutes a business? I don't know.

Hmm

thanks for the insight.

I did search first, but couldnt find anything.. I will have a look again.

[Townopolis]

A perhaps more constructive idea is that the entire Earldom should give the paladin 10gp a day, which could be upgraded by improving the stability and economy of the domain. For example, I would have the construction of way-houses give +1 or +2 gp/day in profits, or you could break it down further and give +1sp/day per way-house until you determine that the road is as safe and well-tended as it can be.

The initial 10gp/day figure is derived from the "Lifestyle Expenses" table (PHB 157), as an earl would certainly qualify as an aristocrat.

[SanguisAevum]

A perhaps more constructive idea is that the entire Earldom should give the paladin 10gp a day, which could be upgraded by improving the stability and economy of the domain. For example, I would have the construction of way-houses give +1 or +2 gp/day in profits, or you could break it down further and give +1sp/day per way-house until you determine that the road is as safe and well-tended as it can be.

The initial 10gp/day figure is derived from the "Lifestyle Expenses" table (PHB 157), as an earl would certainly qualify as an aristocrat.

Worth considering as the third option, thanks.

Incedently.. i could not find the thread you talked about...