Death Domain Cleric build questions

[socratesthefool]

Hello all,

So, I've read through Yorrin's cleric guide at http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?374604-The-Devout-and-the-Dead-a-guide-to-Clerics. It's great.

I had some questions though. Here are the facts:

1. Variant human; War Caster feat; +1 Wis +1 Dex
2. Standard Array: 16 (15) Wisdom, 15 (14) Dexterity, 13 Constitution, 12 Intelligence, 10 Charisma, 8 Strength
3. Cleric, Death Domain
4. Rapier, Shield, Leather
5. Background, Urchin

Here are my questions:
1. I have the possibility of taking 5 feats of 5 attribute increases or some mix of both. I want to get my Wisdom up to 20, so that leaves three. I was thinking of taking Resilience (CON) and Resilience (DEX), which would give me 16 DEX and 14 CON. Since my AC would still be iffy, I was thinking of taking Defensive Duelist. Is this reasonable?

2. Another option would be to multiclass into Rogue for two levels to pick up Cunning Action, or to multiclass into Fighter and get the fighting style and action surge. I like the idea of multiclassing into Rogue because of my background, and...well it just sounds really cool. Our group already has two other rogues, so we could be really stealthy. Is this reasonable? Which would you prefer?

3. Another option would be to not go defensive duelist, and instead go magic initiate for Wizard, and pick up Shield. Can the Shield spell be used along with a normal shield, and have the dex accumulate? Or no?

4. The other two players also used the Standard Array, but if I could, I would put the two points in Intelligence into DEX and CON. Would it be kosher to ask the DM if I could do this? We haven't played yet, but we've already created our characters, just last night. I'm actually not even sure this would help, because I planned on taking Resilience for both CON and WIS anyway, which would put me at 17...which does nothing.

5. If I could re-assign my attributes using the modified standard array (15, 15, 14, 10, 10, 8), variant human would get me to to 16 Wis, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 10 Int, 10 Cha, 8 Str. Taking Resilience in both DEX and CON would get me to 17 Dex and 15 Con. Would it be ok to NOT take WIS to 20, and just leave it at 18? That would allow me to take DEX to 18 and CON to 16 as well, and still let me get defensive duelist/magic initiate. What do you think?

[SharkForce]

just to get it out of the way: unless you're wearing light armour, dex above 14 does not help your AC in the slightest (it will help your initiative, dex saves, dex-based attack rolls and dex-based skills just fine, however, so if you want all of those other things, well, more dex is not a bad idea at all).

1) resilience in con is great, resilience in dex is slightly less good, but still quite worthwhile. defensive duelist is not bad, if you plan on being in the front lines and intend to use an appropriate weapon. it's value depends on how many times you expect to be hit; if your AC is going to be high in the first place, defensive duelist can stop most of what would otherwise get through. it's also great if you expect to be facing things with really unpleasant "rider" effects; for example, it can protect you from some of the worst diseases and poisons in the game by making sure you don't get hit by the attacks that transmit them. against a small number of creatures with a single large attack, it is amazing.

2) either is viable, but i don't favour fighter levels on a non-melee cleric build that much, so my inclination is that rogue is better than fighter, but cleric is also good. an alternate option would be monk as well, considering your eventual stat line it might work out fairly well.

3) it works, but expends resources. i'd go with defensive duelist, personally.

4) asking is always kosher, unless your DM has already said no, imo. that said, my memory of point buy may be a bit blurry, but i could've swore that 14+ is more expensive than 13 or less, so you wouldn't get +1 in both stats, i think.

5) would be ok, but not great if you're planning to be a caster-focused cleric. the main thing is that it will cost you save DC on your spells, and if you plan on using spells that have a save DC, you can *really* do some damage with DC 19 as compared to DC 18 if you can target an enemy's low saving throw (yes, i know it sounds small... but when you're hitting multiple creatures that can potentially get one save per round, yes there is a large difference in how the encounter will play out between DC 18 and DC 19).

[Chronos]

You can only take each feat once, unless a feat's description says otherwise (second paragraph on page 165). Resilient doesn't say otherwise (I think the only feat that does is Elemental Adept), so you can get Resilient in Con or in Dex, but not both.

[eastmabl]

2. Multiclassing is going to eat into one of your feats/ability score increases, provided you don't go at least four levels in rogue/fighter.

[Person_Man]

My thoughts:

Wear medium armor (instead of light), get your Dex to 14, and use a shield. That should push your AC to 19 (or 18 if you care about Stealth).


1) Defensive Duelist is a great Feat. But as a spellcaster, you might have better uses for your Reaction. Take some time and figure out the spells you want first.

2) Although there are exceptions, spellcasters should generally avoid multi-classing, since it nerfs the main source of your power (spells) and can mess with your Ability Score/Feat progression, and can mess with your damage progression. Any problems that you have with AC/to-hit/damage/etc can be solved with spells, like Bless, Shield of Faith, Enhance Ability, Spiritual Weapon, etc.

3) Yes, Shield spell can be used with a physical Shield. But IIRC Magic Initiate only lets you use the 1st level spell once per day. It's not added to your spell list unless you multi-class into Wizard, which I would not suggest.

4 & 5) There's nothing wrong with asking to use the the point buy. If you do, I would dump Int and Cha, because they're basically useless to a Cleric.