Ways to Track and Stealth Quickly

[Jbr208]

I'm building a scout (both the class and archetype) for a puzzle/exploration focused game and am looking for ways to do my job better. One way is to increase the speed a at which tasks are done, which potentially involves addressing the speed penalties associated with both stealth and tracking.

Looking at PrC's, I know that Dread Commando 4 has stealthy movement, which addresses half the equation. I also know Highland Stalker 3 has swift tracker which addresses the other half. Ignoring Ranger 8, which isn't gonna happen, what means of accelerating track and/or stealth outside of those PrC's?

[FocusWolf413]

You could be a skulk (I think they are in races of destiny). They get 3 pretty good rhd, can sprint with no penalty to skills, and have massive bonuses to hide/move silently.

[Troacctid]

Hey, don't knock Ranger 8. Swift Hunter is a solid stock build.

One thing you could always do is just increase your base speed. If you can double your speed with Expeditious Retreat or the like, it's effectively the same as removing a penalty that would halve your speed.

[Jbr208]

Forgot to mention: PHB races only. On the note of allowable materials, setting specific materials are available if the DM specifically allows them.

I didn't mean to besmirch Ranger 8 exactly (though that sentence certainly did), just to express with certainty my lack of desire to put that many levels into getting that particular trick. Admittedly, ranger 8/scout 4/dread commando 4 leaves 4 open levels and fits the bill of what is asked for, and can easily pick up a level or two of Shadowdancer for Hide in Plain Sight, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, and Darkvision.

On second thought, maybe I was a little quick to dismiss ranger 8...

[Flickerdart]

A cheap way to increase your move speed is a pair of boots of skating - you get a +15ft enhancement bonus to speed unless going uphill, and another +15 circumstance bonus if going downhill.

[Troacctid]

I didn't mean to besmirch Ranger 8 exactly (though that sentence certainly did), just to express with certainty my lack of desire to put that many levels into getting that particular trick.

It's not just that particular trick--you're also getting the ability to apply skirmish damage against enemies that would normally be immune to it, which is very valuable. Plus: spellcasting, wildshaping, full BAB, bonus feats (crappy bonus feats, but they're useful for prerequisites), a sidekick to improve your action economy and/or serve as a mount, an extra instance of fast movement (which might stack with Scout's, I don't recall off the top of my head), and, of course, let's not forget full skirmish progression.

Swift Hunters are great!

[Jowgen]

Look into teamwork benefits, specifically Infiltration. Provided you and at least one other party member can meet the prereqs, you can ignore the -5 to Hide and Move Silently from moving full speed for free.

As for getting swift tracker... not a clue sadly, never really tried to work with that.

[Jbr208]

You're making me think more critically about what I want, which is great and I really appreciate it. You're definitely raising good points.

I was already planning on using swift hunter for most of that reason, but was favoring the scout side, planning scout 8/ranger 3/fill to 20. The reasons for my scout preference being that Swift Hunter progresses neither casting nor the animal companion. Further, outside of swift tracker, the scout features feel more useful than the animal companion or limited spell casting. That being said, I'm now considering Scout 7/Ranger 8/Dread Commando 4/Shadowdancer 1, since it offers better synergy between the two main classes and fits the stated outcome (swift tracker and stealthy movement), while picking up hide in plain sight. BAB for this build: 17/12/7/2.

Scout 11/Ranger 8/Shadowdancer 1 is also tempting because of the faster movement, which calls for dropping the Dread Commando and just eating the (admittedly small) penalty to move at full speed while hiding. Plus, this method gets the full skirmish progression, rather than calling at 4d6/+4 AC. BAB,with that in mind, drops to 16 (which is in the "good enough" range for me). I may change my mind once I look at the ranger spell list in the spell compendium, however, since 12th level ranger casting has 3rd level spells which could prove useful (even if they come up late in this build).


With regard to teamwork benefits: my companions have both decided to be casters. One is an artificer and the other is an archivist, teamwork benefits for stealth are sadly not an option. Thanks for pointing it out though, I had not realized it was an option in the first place.


Things this conversation has so far taught me:1) the opportunity cost for getting swift tracker is lower than the opportunity cost of getting stealthy movement. 2) Ranger is harder to write off than I had thought. 3) My understanding remains far from complete on the matter of this build (not really learned, just reinforced).

[Troacctid]

Swift Hunter progresses neither casting nor the animal companion.

This problem at least can be solved with the Urban Companion (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) ACF, which replaces your animal companion with a familiar that scales much better. It inherits your hit points and BAB instead of advancing by HD never actually advancing at all because your effective Druid level is too low. Also, it shares all your skill ranks, which is...well, just look at how many skills you have. Roll twice on every Spot and Listen check and take the better result? Sounds solid. Not to mention 20 feet of blindsense if you get a bat--admittedly a shorter range than Scouts get at level 10, but being able to fly out ahead of you and come back probably makes up for it.

Spells aren't too big a deal, since you can do fine with just 1st-level Ranger spells. There are some good ones on the list that can give you a little utility. Endure Elements, Animal Messenger, Longstrider, Entangle, and even Alarm are all solid options to have, just from the core list, even if they're only 1/day. Add other books and you get stuff like Camouflage, Climbing Tree, Embrace the Wild, Lay of the Land, and whatnot. And if you do go to Ranger 8 and you have 14 Wisdom, you can also pick up some more stuff, too. It's nothing amazing, mostly just utility, but it's not irrelevant.