"There is nothing about it in the rules, is it?"

[badgerman]

Hello,
first of all I apologize, because English is not my native language.
Maybe the following questions were already asked and I just weren't able to find the answers.

1. There's the chamaeleon-"Bonus Feat": May I take the "Open Mind"-feat to get some skillpoints and buy a skilltrick (prerequisites ok and room for some more skilltricks) with two of them? What happens when I will take another feat with the "Bonus Feat", do I lose the skilltrick because the skillpoints fade away? Am I allowed to do the same process again if still at the same charakterlevel ?

2. A bit unspecific but I am quite a noob playing D&D 3.5: If I multiclass a factotum with a class which grants "spells per day in an existing spellcasting class" for example the chamaeleon, what do i get ? Is the factotum an existing spellcasting class, so will I get more spells per day for the arcane dilletante ability ?

3. I want to try as many things as possible therefore factotum is my choice. I plan to multiclass with fortune's friend and chamaeleon but some water will went down the river till then.
So improvising is part of the way I play. "Never acting the same way twice!" is kind of a motto.
Here is the question: Is there an official source of rules dealing with improvised weapons? For example: "Could a cape work like a net when throwing it on tiny creatures ?" "Could this cape be a hidden weapon, even as not being 'light' or hidden with the sleight-of-hand-skill?" "Does the level 1 spell "Master's Touch"let me gain proficiency with this improvised weapon cape?"

thanks a lot

[Curmudgeon]

1. Open Minded probably doesn't work at all. See the latest "Dysfunctional Rules" thread, starting here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19013058&postcount=1089).

2. A Factotum is not any sort of spellcaster, so you get nothing.

[badgerman]

Thank you very much for the fast answer.

[badgerman]

Thank you very much for the fast answer.

Ok. The Feat "Open Minded" shouldn't be taken because it is kind of broken. But hypothetically, the time the character gets the feat is neither a character creation nor a level advancement. The text about skilltricks quotes "Whenever you acquire skill points, you can choose to spend skill points to acquire a skill trick instead of purchasing ranks in skills." (CSco p.82) There is nothing about creation or level advancement. So back to the question: IF the feat works with the "bonus feat", may I get a new skill trick every day? OR may I just get one skill trick each level ? AND will the skill trick disapear once the "bonus feat" is no longer Open Minded?

The 3rd question about improvising things maybe should end in improvising rules I think :)

[A_S]

Re: 1, if you interpret Open Minded's "Spend these skill points as normal" to mean "Spend these skill points like you would have been able to if you had gained them at the normal time," the feat works as it's supposed to. I expect most DM's who allow the feat run it using this interpretation, even if it's a bit of a stretch by RAW. Under this interpretation, you could buy a skill trick once by picking up Open Minded with Chameleon's floating bonus feat. However, you would lose the skill trick when you lost the feat (because the skill points and whatever you spend them on are part of the "Benefit" section of the feat), and I believe you would then be unable to gain any more skill tricks until you levelled up (because you may only gain one skill trick on a given level).

Re: 3, the rules for improvised weapons are here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm). They basically come down to "figure out what real weapon is about the same size and shape, and use those stats." So, a lot of DM leeway.

[badgerman]

Thanks again :smallsmile:

[Troacctid]

1. As Curmudgeon mentioned, feats like Open Minded are already dysfunctional even when taking them normally. This interaction is even more dysfunctional, and simply has no rules associated with it. Talk to your DM. Personally, at my table, I would tell my player to mark down how the skill points are spent, and have them lose those same skill ranks if they changed the feat; there's zero official basis for that ruling, of course, but it seems like a fair, logical solution to me. You could also save some bookkeeping by allowing the player to lose any 5 skill ranks if they change the feat, not just the ones gained with the feat, but since that effectively allows them to completely rebuild all of their skills over the course of a few days, I'm not a big fan of that fix.

3. The rules for improvised weapons can be found here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#improvisedWeapons). Basically, they can be compared to existing weapons to figure out their damage, but not their special abilities. What you might enjoy, though, is a Morphing weapon (Magic Item Compendium, page 39). The Morphing property allows a melee or thrown weapon to transform into any other weapon of the same size and type (light, one-handed, or two-handed) as a standard action. So you can have one weapon, but morph it into any other kind of weapon. Or, alternately, just buy a crapton of different exotic weapons, keep them in a handy haversack, and pull out whichever one you need and cast master's touch on it.

For capes as a hidden weapon, try a weighted cloak (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070314a). It automatically counts as hidden, even without Sleight of Hand.

[badgerman]

Ahh ok. I think we will play without the Open Minded feat. At least not in combination with the chameleon one. Seems to be a bit to buggy. Thanks for showing that to me.

Wow :smallcool: the items are quite cool. Especially that cloak. I like it. The handy haversack also rocks. Should get something like a golf cart in addition :smallbiggrin:
I think we will create some rules by situation for the improvised weapons. In my opinion a standard cloak could be a hidden weapon too, because the "weighted cloak" is hidden because it seems to be a standard cloak.
But that should be a "home brew rules discussion" I think. Could be interesting how other DMs handle such things.
We are sort of pen and paper group focussing on roleplay usually. Now we are trying to find a good balance between "rpg" and "tabletop min-maxing". Will be exciting but we are looking forward to it.
We are 2 DMs and 2 players using an online platform (roll20) to play a bit. Switching DMs from time to time. Thanks a lot for your help.

[Troacctid]

Well, a standard cloak can't be a hidden weapon because it's not a weapon.

[badgerman]

But it could be an improvised weapon I can compare it with the "weighted cloak", can I? At least if it is wet maybe :smallwink:

[HammeredWharf]

But it could be an improvised weapon I can compare it with the "weighted cloak", can I? At least if it is wet maybe :smallwink:

"This cloak has an unusually thick lining at the bottom, which is filled with lead shot, a thin chain, or some other weight. When held with the other end wrapped around the hand, it can be wielded much as a flail"

I don't think wet cloth is comparable to a flail.

[badgerman]

As I said before the whole thing drifts to a homebrew discussion. It is no longer about rules than about opinions. In my opinion a soaked up cape could do more damage to a swarm than a fluffy cloak with some lead in the end. But its like "in my opinion ogres are like onions" "NOOO onions are like ogres" blah blah.

Thanks again to all of you.
I m off.

[Troacctid]

It's the difference between a sock and a sock with a brick in it. The damage is really coming from the brick, not the sock.

[badgerman]

I understand I think, but "wielded as much as" for me is the handling not the damage. every improvised weapon does less damage than its comparison according to the rules.
"wielded as much as a flail" could be a yoyo for me and if its dealing only 1 damage it could be enough to break a glass or to trigger a trap. if the improvised weapon is useful or not is not always a question of damage i think. the cloak could blind a foe for round or entangle a tiny foe or hinder a bird from flying away etc.

By the way that "sock without a brick" is really bad even for me :) Maybe the enemy couldn't stop laughing because of the attempt to hit him with a sock :smalltongue:

[Chronos]

Quoth badgerman:

2. A bit unspecific but I am quite a noob playing D&D 3.5: If I multiclass a factotum with a class which grants "spells per day in an existing spellcasting class" for example the chamaeleon,...
Many prestige classes do this, but chameleon does not. It has its own entirely separate casting progression. You can gain it without having any prior spellcasting at all, and even if you already have some other spellcasting, spells you cast as a chameleon and spells you cast as that other class are completely separate.