What exactly do Druids do in this edition?

[Quintessence]

I am struggling to find my place as a druid in this edition of the game, I feel mostly useless and get beat up when I attempt to use wild shape for combat. I am currently a level 4 druid of the moon and don't know what to do.

Please help!

[PhoenixV]

If you want some decent advice we are going to need to know more than this in order to help you. What are the stats/feats/general equipment that you are working with? Also what type of characters are the other players in your party running?

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

While wildshape makes druids very competent in close combat, on it's own it doesn't make them masters of it. You're still a full caster. So much like clerics, you can hang up front and hit things, but your strongest abilities are always going to be your spells.

[Quintessence]

If you want some decent advice we are going to need to know more than this in order to help you. What are the stats/feats/general equipment that you are working with? Also what type of characters are the other players in your party running?

Currently I have no feats
8 str
14 dex
14 con
13 int
16 wis
9 cha


General equipment is very basic things, we have no magic items so far and only stuff we have bought at shops such as a standard quarterstaff for me.

our party consists of
Barbarian using a greataxe
Paladin using a greatsword
Warlock who specializes in eldritch blast
Fighter who is sword and board and frontline tanks



While wildshape makes druids very competent in close combat, on it's own it doesn't make them masters of it. You're still a full caster. So much like clerics, you can hang up front and hit things, but your strongest abilities are always going to be your spells.

So did I perhaps make a mistake being a circle of the moon druid? Would I have been better off with circle of the land?

[cobaltstarfire]

The druid in my party is a druid of the land, and he mostly drops moonbeams on enemies, heals, and throws molotov cocktails (he throws jars of oil and then blasts them with his fire attack). He's also used speak with animals quite a bit.

He's mostly used his wildshape for more psychological things, and for sneaking around. The best example I can think of was this "trap" that was a basket of vipers set up by a mildly unfriendly faction. He convinced them to let him hang out with them for a while in order to spy on the people he wanted to spy on.

Oh and one time he used his wildshape to escape an undead. It had grappled him and dragged him out of the room, so he just turned into a giant tortois and the undead had no choice but to drop him or be pinned.

[Person_Man]

At low levels Druids are extremely hard to kill and make amazing scouts (Pass Without Trace + Wildshape into something innocuous with a high Stealth modifier).

At mid levels, they get additional Wildshape forms that allow them to effectively inflict useful status effects (Grappled, Restrained, Prone). Moon Druid is better at this sooner, and also tank-ier.

At mid-high levels, they can do pretty much anything short of destroying the game (Wish, Simularcron, undead hoards), because they have a great spell list. Enhance Ability, Contagion, Freedom of Movement, Conjure Animals/Fey, Animal Shapes, etc. Land Druid is better at this sooner, and has an expanded spell list. Elemental Evil supplement adds several potent options like Bones of the Earth, Absorb Elements, and Investiture of Stone. More supplements will make them even more versatile.

The difference is that in 3.5, Druids could basically do anything whenever they wanted starting at mid-levels. In 5E, their resources and Wildshape forms are more limited, and they can't cast spells while in Wildshape until very high levels. So they're very effective, but not dominating every niche.

[calebrus]

"What exactly do Druids do in this edition? "

Like most classes in 5e, what Druids "do" depends on your build and concept.
Druids can be low level tanks, decent damage dealers, battlefield controllers, healers, scouts.... whatever you build for.
As a Moon Druid, the easiest things for you to build for will be low level tank (which your party is full of), damage dealer (which your party is literally filled with), scout (which your party may or may not have depending on backgrounds), and healer (which is all yours unless the Pally wants to help.

I suggest focusing more on concentration control spells, then wild shaping to help out with the fighting, and switching back to humanoid form to heal (or cast more control) when necessary.

I'll also add that while everyone raves about Moon Druids because of their extremely late ability to heal themselves like mad via wild shaping, I personally think Land Druids are both more flavorful and more powerful. I mean, all they really give up is bonus action shifting and slightly better combat shapes, but they become much, much better casters. And if you can talk your DM into homebrewing a bonus action shifting feat, then they're flat out better in my not so humble opinion.

One level of Monk on a Dex/Wis Land Druid, with the right background, grab yourself a club(nunchucks)/staff(bo)/sickle(kama)/whatever and a short bow (so that you don't lose martial arts and can attack in melee for OAs even with a ranged weapon in hand - it's better damage than cantrips for quite a while, and works when fire is resisted).
Grab Thorn Whip for some at-will control and the right spell choices, and you've got yourself one mean all-purpose character, that actually becomes almost as effective jack-of-all-trades as a Bard, but one that can actually kill things well to boot. It's one of the better solo-style builds available.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

our party consists of
Barbarian using a greataxe
Paladin using a greatsword
Warlock who specializes in eldritch blast
Fighter who is sword and board and frontline tanks

So did I perhaps make a mistake being a circle of the moon druid? Would I have been better off with circle of the land?

It's not a mistake generally, it's just emphasizing one set of abilities over another. Land gets access to more spells and can cast more per day. Moon gets access to larger and many unique forms. It's a trade-off.

But in your specific case, your party is quite heavy on melee bruisers and light on spell-casting, so emphasizing your casting instead your wildshape combat ability might have helped you find a more unique role in the party.

[Rhaegar14]

I am struggling to find my place as a druid in this edition of the game, I feel mostly useless and get beat up when I attempt to use wild shape for combat. I am currently a level 4 druid of the moon and don't know what to do.

Please help!

Emphasis mine.

So, I am in no way trying to be condescending when I ask this: are you sure you know exactly how your Wild Shape ability works? I was DMing a low-level group of 5th edition characters through the first part of Hoard of the Dragon Queen a while back, and out of a party with only one non-melee character, the Moon Druid was far and away their most durable melee combatant when he took Dire Wolf form, and the only time another character consistently did more damage than him was when the Berserker Path Barbarian used Frenzy. Admittedly, this would have changed as they gained levels, but you should not be having problems at level 4.

[calebrus]

Agree with Rhaeg above.
But even so, your party is filled with characters that do what a Moon Druid is generally designed to do.
If it were me, I'd ask the DM if I could retrain to Land. Not just because I personally prefer Land, but because your group would benefit from it. Like I said, your entire group is comprised of characters that fill the role a low-level Moon Druid wants to fill, but it has no one to fill the roles that a Land Druid would want to fill.

[Rhaegar14]

Agree with Rhaeg above.
But even so, your party is filled with characters that do what a Moon Druid is generally designed to do.
If it were me, I'd ask the DM if I could retrain to Land. Not just because I personally prefer Land, but because your group would benefit from it. Like I said, your entire group is comprised of characters that fill the role a low-level Moon Druid wants to fill, but it has no one to fill the roles that a Land Druid would want to fill.

That's a decent point, but for a lot of people, Wild Shape providing viable combat forms is a big part of the Druid fantasy. Circle of the Land doesn't really give you any viable combat forms; even Circle of the Moon has some scaling problems at higher levels.

[Submortimer]

I am struggling to find my place as a druid in this edition of the game, I feel mostly useless and get beat up when I attempt to use wild shape for combat. I am currently a level 4 druid of the moon and don't know what to do.

Please help!

You Summon a pair of dire wolves, Turn into a dire wolf yourself, and then proceed to Pack Tactics everything on the board until all that's left is a gooey red paste.

I mean, that how the druids at my table end up playing it.

Edit: You do still have a LOT of stuff to do as a Moon Druid. As it stands, you are certainly the party healer. You could easily drop a couple levels into life cleric to get the extra healing.

[calebrus]

That's a decent point, but for a lot of people, Wild Shape providing viable combat forms is a big part of the Druid fantasy. Circle of the Land doesn't really give you any viable combat forms; even Circle of the Moon has some scaling problems at higher levels.

Yes, wild shaping into better combat forms is indeed a big part of the Druid fantasy for many.
And Land Druids get wild shape. It's only really viable in the very low levels. But then level 7 comes, and they get Polymorph. At very high levels they get Shapechange.
This is the main reason that I think Land is far better than Moon. You said it yourself, at high levels Moon has scaling issues. Those scaling issues are alleviated by spell-shifting instead of wild shaping, and every Druid gets access to them.
So there's a small-ish window where Moon Druids are better at shifting, but that window closes fast, and all the while Land are better casters.
With the exception of that small window (and late game onion-play, which I find cheesy and broken), I honestly don't see what Moon brings to the table at all.
Add all of that up with the fact that the party in question would be better off with a Land Druid, and asking for a retrain becomes a no-brainer in my opinion.

[PhoenixV]

Currently I have no feats

our party consists of
Barbarian using a greataxe
Paladin using a greatsword
Warlock who specializes in eldritch blast
Fighter who is sword and board and frontline tanks



I don't know enough about the difference between moon and land druid to comment on that however I can tell you that with this party composition I would probably seek to play a more support oriented role as the druid. You have a lot of spells at your fingertips that can make your front line which is already very strong even stronger (I am talking about Faerie Fire for one) and also you will probably need to be the primary person throwing out heals when those are needed.

If you are feeling like the other members are outshining you in combat it is probably because they are sort of built to. The Barbarian, Paladin, and Fighter all have pretty much one thing they do really well. Hit stuff in the face with something sharp. You are probably not going to be able to be as good at doing that as they are. What you are better at is bringing a large number of options and solutions to things that they are not as good at with all of your spells.

[Rhaegar14]

...But then level 7 comes...

I had this problem with a lot of character builds in 3.5e; I want my character to be good at the thing he's supposed to be good at before 7th level. It's really easy on a CharOp board to forget that a build that's strictly more effective past a certain level really sucks to play when it doesn't feel right before that level.

Plus, there are problems with the Polymorph approach. Polymorph requires Concentration, so if you take a hit you could get knocked out of your form, and you're denied the tactic of casting a Concentration spell and then transforming. Polymorph changes your mental ability scores (which I think is really, really stupid, but it's what the rulebook says), so at best your Druid is now an idiot and at worst a stupid DM rules you run on instinct now (it says you retain your alignment and personality but I'm not sure how that works when you are reduced to 3 Intelligence).

Your Wild Shape uses also recharge off a Short Rest, so most of the time you're gonna be able to use that more often, to say nothing of the spell slots you save (it will be much later than level 7, if ever, that a 4th-level spell slot is no longer a valuable resource).

All that being said, you're absolutely right: his group would benefit more from a Land Druid, and Polymorph does grant better forms. But if Wild Shape is a central part of the character concept I would still say go with Circle of the Moon.

[calebrus]

I had this problem with a lot of character builds in 3.5e; I want my character to be good at the thing he's supposed to be good at before 7th level.

Regular wild shape is perfectly viable in levels 2-4. At level 7 you get polymorph.
That's two whole levels (5&6) where shifting won't work well for you (at 5 it's still debatable, at 6 it will be rough).
Optimal? No. Viable? Absolutely.
It's not exactly the end of the world.

[Vogonjeltz]

Emphasis mine.

So, I am in no way trying to be condescending when I ask this: are you sure you know exactly how your Wild Shape ability works? I was DMing a low-level group of 5th edition characters through the first part of Hoard of the Dragon Queen a while back, and out of a party with only one non-melee character, the Moon Druid was far and away their most durable melee combatant when he took Dire Wolf form, and the only time another character consistently did more damage than him was when the Berserker Path Barbarian used Frenzy. Admittedly, this would have changed as they gained levels, but you should not be having problems at level 4.

The trick being, you have to have seen a dire wolf and lived to tell about it to take your Beast Form as one. I recommend the Druid visit some zoos, provided any exist in the game world. If he's lucky he'll see something worth transforming into. If your DM hasn't had many encounters with animals, you might ask for more of those.

[Submortimer]

The trick being, you have to have seen a dire wolf and lived to tell about it to take your Beast Form as one. I recommend the Druid visit some zoos, provided any exist in the game world. If he's lucky he'll see something worth transforming into. If your DM hasn't had many encounters with animals, you might ask for more of those.

Through it wont work before level 5, this is easily overcome with the Conjure Animals spell. You're 9th level by the time you can turn into something bigger than Conjure Animal's CR 2, and that should last you until 10th when you can (and should) start turning into Elementals.

[Vogonjeltz]

Through it wont work before level 5, this is easily overcome with the Conjure Animals spell. You're 9th level by the time you can turn into something bigger than Conjure Animal's CR 2, and that should last you until 10th when you can (and should) start turning into Elementals.

Problem being that the DM still determines what shows up.

[Person_Man]

Like most classes in 5e, what Druids "do" depends on your build and concept.

Too true.

One of the things I dislike about 5E is that every class is basically a Venn diagram of different abilities, with no specific role or niche to fill. (With casters having more options, and thus larger circles of different stuff they can do, though not necessarily more effectively). This was done intentionally, so that everyone could play "there version" of whatever they believe the class should be. But the down side is that class selection and resource management can be horribly confusing for someone who isn't familiar with the game.

[Submortimer]

Problem being that the DM still determines what shows up.

Up for interpretation, certainly never explicitly stated that this is the case. Besides, even if it was just straight up random, each of the different catagories only has so many options.

[Psikerlord]

Currently I have no feats
8 str
14 dex
14 con
13 int
16 wis
9 cha


General equipment is very basic things, we have no magic items so far and only stuff we have bought at shops such as a standard quarterstaff for me.

our party consists of
Barbarian using a greataxe
Paladin using a greatsword
Warlock who specializes in eldritch blast
Fighter who is sword and board and frontline tanks




So did I perhaps make a mistake being a circle of the moon druid? Would I have been better off with circle of the land?

So your party already has a fighter tank, 2 melee damage dealers who are also tankish (barb and paladin) and a ranged all day blaster. Your place as druid will be best filled as the utility guy imo - spells for out of combat stuff, summoning, healing... but also AoE blasting and support blasting. You can use beastform for amazing stealth/scouting too. I wouldnt go beast form as first choice in combat. Instead use your spells, but know that you have a great tanking ability vai beastform if you need it. I'd also pick up ritual caster as a feat to grab all the great wizard rituals.

[Mandragola]

It looks to me like nobody else is the party healer, so the job probably falls to you. The paladin should probably help out too when needed.

Even so, as a moon druid at that level you shouldn't be getting left behind. A dire wolf with a lot of friendly melee characters should be great.

For the purposes of party balance, switching to Land might be slightly better in the long run. With so many other melee characters, and the scaling issues moon druids face, you'll end up frustrated otherwise I think. You can use your wild shape ability to scout instead of to fight, and in combat use spells. I'd prioritise control spells that mess up the bad guys, as even taking one or two monsters out of the fight for a couple of rounds can hugely swing a fight in your favour.

[Quintessence]

Thank you everyone for the advice, I am currently talking to my DM about changing to circle of the land for the good of the group!


I've learned a lot about 5E druids and will hopefully be able to maximize my play, thanks again for taking the time to post!