Mage armor + Armored Fighting Style

[dukeofwolfsgate]

Does it work? One of my players is asking, and I can't decide...

[Kane0]

AFB right now, but if mage armor provides an AC bonus that doesnt stack with wearing regular armor i'd rule it to work.

[Townopolis]

Technically, no, but I'd allow it.

I mean, technically, you have to be wearing armor for the bonus to kick in, which I don't think mage armor qualifies for. However, you could technically throw on some leather armor to qualify for defensive style, then cast Mage Armor and use its calculation with the style bonus. I think that works by RAW. Even if it doesn't, though, I'd still allow it, and at that point you might as well forgo making them jump through the hoop of donning the armor.

[archaeo]

Does it work? One of my players is asking, and I can't decide...

Assuming that you're adding that +1 AC to the mage armor, I don't really see the problem. It doesn't seem to be a combo that's likely to be very effective - if you have the defensive fighting style, you will also have proficiency with armor that can beat 13 + Dex mod without eating a spell slot.

[Submortimer]

Defensive fighting style: "While you are wearing armor, you gain a +1 to AC."

Emphasis mine. As far as your base AC calculation goes, mage armor would certainly supercede any armor you might be currently wearing, but it doesn't mean you aren't WEARING ARMOR. Therefore, +1 to whatever your AC is. Nice workaround, makes a 3 level warlock dip for a dex based fighter REALLY nice.

[Rhaegar14]

Assuming that you're adding that +1 AC to the mage armor, I don't really see the problem. It doesn't seem to be a combo that's likely to be very effective - if you have the defensive fighting style, you will also have proficiency with armor that can beat 13 + Dex mod without eating a spell slot.

At low levels that's not really true. If you have 16 Dex then Mage Armor gets you 16 AC, which is comparable to Scale Mail or Chain Mail. Even without further upgrading your Dexterity, anything that's gonna give you better AC than that gives disadvantage on Stealth checks, which is minor for most characters but important to some concepts.

Also, maybe I want my refined duelist with the Eldritch Knight archetype to wear fancy clothes instead of plate mail armor.

[archaeo]

At low levels that's not really true. If you have 16 Dex then Mage Armor gets you 16 AC, which is comparable to Scale Mail or Chain Mail. Even without further upgrading your Dexterity, anything that's gonna give you better AC than that gives disadvantage on Stealth checks, which is minor for most characters but important to some concepts.

Arguably, if you're playing some kind of complicated multiclass that gets a fighting style and can case mage armor, then you're likely to have better options than pure stealth for getting places sneakily. However, I take your point; at the earliest levels, mage armor is competitive with just wearing armor, and it's superior if you're trying to be sneaky-via-stealth-skill.


Also, maybe I want my refined duelist with the Eldritch Knight archetype to wear fancy clothes instead of plate mail armor.

I can't help but feel like that's a suboptimal approach to the subclass, but hey, "suboptimal" in 5e isn't at all crippling. Go nuts!

[Strill]

"You touch a willing creature who isn't wearing armor...The spell ends if the target dons armor..."

No. Mage armor is not armor. It's akin to Unarmored Defense, and would not stack with Defensive fighting style.

[bloodshed343]

How broken would it be to have mage armor as 11 + spellcasting ability modifier?

[Strill]

How broken would it be to have mage armor as 11 + spellcasting ability modifier?

It means that wizards only need INT and CON, and can dump DEX. I don't think that's reasonable. Most classes require CON, and two other ability scores.

[Theodoxus]

It means that wizards only need INT and CON, and can dump DEX. I don't think that's reasonable. Most classes require CON, and two other ability scores.

Wizards still like going first - dumping Dex isn't advisable. Shaving points off Dex though, would be nice...

If you wanted to go that route, Bloodshed, I'd propose '11+Casting stat mod' or '13+Dex mod' whichever is higher.

Let's the player who values Dex get a bigger boost, but the guy who wants to dump Dex (or gets a bad roll, or save PB points) can still get a decent AC.

[Inevitability]

RAW, the only definition given in the rules of 'armor' is the table in the PHB. Mage Armor is not real armor, it's a 'protective magical force'. Ergo, the bonus does not apply.

[Giant2005]

The Fighting style applies when you are wearing armor. It doesn't differentiate between Leather armor, Chainmail armor, Platemail Armor or Mage Armor.

[rollingForInit]

The Fighting style applies when you are wearing armor. It doesn't differentiate between Leather armor, Chainmail armor, Platemail Armor or Mage Armor.

The fighting style very explicitly does not apply to Mage Armor. It only applies to armor you are wearing.

Mage Armor only works when you are not wearing armor. Someone even quoted it earlier in the thread. If you don armor, the spell ends immediately.

Therefore, the two cannot be combined. It couldn't be much clearer.

[Person_Man]

I would say that it doesn't work, and allowing it would make heavy armor proficiency and Unarmored Defense less valuable/useful.

Also, its probably not worth multi-classing to gain an extra +1ish AC. Multi-classing usually end up screwing your Ability Score/Feat progression. If you want higher AC, then just improve your Dex (or Con, hit points help just defense too), or if its maxed out, take one of the Feats that improves your AC.

[ChubbyRain]

I would say that it doesn't work, and allowing it would make heavy armor proficiency and Unarmored Defense less valuable/useful.

Also, its probably not worth multi-classing to gain an extra +1ish AC. Multi-classing usually end up screwing your Ability Score/Feat progression. If you want higher AC, then just improve your Dex (or Con, hit points help just defense too), or if its maxed out, take one of the Feats that improves your AC.

True but if you are mostly caster you probably don't want feats all that much since each of your 1st level spells is half a feat and then all above that is just worth even more feats. Feats are nice but spells are nicer. Once you get 18 in your main ability score you probably won't need any more ASIs (unless your other scores are low due to rolling).

Most casters will start with 14-16 Casting stat so with only 1 or 2 ASI you will be good to go there.

Plus there are other class features that are worth a feat. Getting higher hit die along with those class features is like getting part of tough and an added bonus.

Rogue 2, Fighter 2, Barbarian 2, Monk 2, and other partial or noncasters all make up for a lack of a feat or ASI boost for what they give you. Clerics taking barbarian gain some extra more mojo (reckless attack) and rage (when their spells run out). Wizards taking Rogue gain some defensive properties of Expertise (Acrobatics) or (Stealth) and also Cunning Action that can get them the hell out of trouble... Worth way more than any feat or ASI I think.

[Joe the Rat]

Does carrying a shield count as "wearing armor" in regard to mage armor?
Does carrying a shield count as "wearing armor" for the Defense fighting style?

Depending on how you interpret those (and whatever's come down the tweetpipe), it could give you a work around.

[Fwiffo86]

Does carrying a shield count as "wearing armor" in regard to mage armor?
Does carrying a shield count as "wearing armor" for the Defense fighting style?

Depending on how you interpret those (and whatever's come down the tweetpipe), it could give you a work around.

Shields are their own proficiency. Thus... not armor in the sense it is used for Mage Armor and Defense fighting style.

[rollingForInit]

Does carrying a shield count as "wearing armor" in regard to mage armor?
Does carrying a shield count as "wearing armor" for the Defense fighting style?

Depending on how you interpret those (and whatever's come down the tweetpipe), it could give you a work around.

Shields are separate. Look att the Monk's Unarmored Defense, for instance. It specifies "wearing armor or wielding a shield" as something you cannot do.

[ChubbyRain]

Shields are not armor but there isn't any harm in giving a naked fighter with a shield a +1 to AC.

I would just reword defensive style to say "armor or a shield".

I mean, why is wearing armor being more defensive than having a shield? A naked guy or gal with a shield obviously wouldn't want to be defensive after all lol.

10 + Dex (usually 0 - 3) + shield (2) + 1 = 13 to 16 AC which is about what the Barbarian and Monk will have while not wearing armor.

[Submortimer]

The fighting style very explicitly does not apply to Mage Armor. It only applies to armor you are wearing.

Mage Armor only works when you are not wearing armor. Someone even quoted it earlier in the thread. If you don armor, the spell ends immediately.

Therefore, the two cannot be combined. It couldn't be much clearer.

Huh. You are totally correct, I forgot about that. Bummer!

[Inevitability]

Does carrying a shield count as "wearing armor" in regard to mage armor?
Does carrying a shield count as "wearing armor" for the Defense fighting style?

Depending on how you interpret those (and whatever's come down the tweetpipe), it could give you a work around.

No, because you don't 'wear' a shield. You carry it.

If a player finds a way to turn a shield in an improvised breastplate, though, he can go ahead and add the bonuses.

[ChubbyRain]

No, because you don't 'wear' a shield. You carry it.

If a player finds a way to turn a shield in an improvised breastplate, though, he can go ahead and add the bonuses.

Put it on their back, use it like TMNT armor?

[rpavlicek]

For what its worth, from JC tweet (https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/524716308097560576):


Yes, the mage armor spell and the sorcerer's Draconic Resilience work with a shield

[MeeposFire]

As an intersting aside to this the gladiator class in 2e had a simlar ability that gave a bonus to AC when wearing armor. In the ability it said spells and items like rings of protection did not count but oddly enough items like bracers of armor did.

So if you want an old school variant to modify the rules force them to wear bracers of armor or similar.


However by RAW this idea does not work as they both call out that one cannot wear armor and the other requries that you do wear armor.

[Galen]

For what its worth, from JC tweet (https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/524716308097560576):

Yes, the mage armor spell and the sorcerer's Draconic Resilience work with a shield


Since the Shield doesn't set your AC to a specific value, but merely provides "+2 AC", it stands to reason that it stacks with everything (except another shield, as it specifically says a character can only benefit from one shield at a time).

Strangely enough, a shield stacks with the Shield spell even. Or at least there is no RAW reason why it won't.

[Inevitability]

Strangely enough, a shield stacks with the Shield spell even. Or at least there is no RAW reason why it won't.

Why is that strange? Two shields block more than one.

[Galen]

Why is that strange? Two shields block more than one.

If that would be true, a character could double-wield shields for +4 AC. But that doesn't work. One shield = +2 AC; two shields = +2 AC

[silveralen]

I don't see any reason it isn't okay balance wise. It gives you the same max as plate armor+armored defense and having access to the fighting style means you probably have access to plate armor prof. If you have dex maxed, you probably have access to plate armor.

In universe, learning the proper was to maximize armor protection would work whether the armor was metal, leather, or made of magical goop. No real reason it shouldn't apply.

[rollingForInit]

If that would be true, a character could double-wield shields for +4 AC. But that doesn't work. One shield = +2 AC; two shields = +2 AC

A Shield spell isn't actually a physical shield. It's a magical shield. That surrounds you and protects you. It's supposed to be an extra bonus on top of whatever armor or defenses you're wearing.

[Inevitability]

If that would be true, a character could double-wield shields for +4 AC. But that doesn't work. One shield = +2 AC; two shields = +2 AC

A Shield spell is different, however. Wielding two shields at once would be clunky and difficult. Wielding a normal shield while a magical disk of force is deflecting attacks for you? Far easier.