Template Stacking - Incarnate Consruct

[Wacky89]

I have a few questions about Incarnate construct and additional templates:

Is it possible to add templates in this order and end out with LA0?

Warforged (MM3) - Incarnate Construct (SS) - Sea Dragonspawn (Bestiary of Krynn Revised)
My current gm is telling me the -2LA from incarnate would be lost before adding dragonspawn

Also are subtypes lost when applying incarnate construct?
I was thinking if living construct would be lost or not

[Thurbane]

The -2 LA for IC only works if the LA exists before you add the IC template, if I'm not mistaken.

So a Phrenic Warforged that gains Icarnate Construct ends up at LA +0. It loses it's special abilities, but keeps the ability modifiers.

[Inevitability]

Something that is also popular is applying Dustform, then Incarnate Construct. You end up with +0 LA total and a few neat bonuses.

Then again, each bludgeoning attack has a chance to kill you and you are made out of thousands of little flesh particles the size of a sand grain.

[Taveena]

You should apply Incarnate Construct to a Soulfused Construct Incarnum Golem Incarnate/Incarnate.

I see no flaws with this plan.

[Wacky89]

I'm not interested in other things I Could be doing but more if what I'm doing is going to work.

[atemu1234]

I'm not interested in other things I Could be doing but more if what I'm doing is going to work.

Depends on interpretation. For example, many 3e creatures actually have negative LA. Mostly ELH stuff, but still.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Negative LA without LA does nothing, but AFAIK you still have it. You would be ECL 1 if you have 1 level of a class, but adding up to a +2 template later wouldn't increase your ECL. As a DM I would prohibit this: you just gave up a pile of racial stuff for a level of sorcerer. That is juicy.

[Blackhawk748]

Negative LA without LA does nothing, but AFAIK you still have it. You would be ECL 1 if you have 1 level of a class, but adding up to a +2 template later wouldn't increase your ECL. As a DM I would prohibit this: you just gave up a pile of racial stuff for a level of sorcerer. That is juicy.

That is true, but Warforged have some of the best Racial abilities of any LA 0 Race, on top of this Incarnate Construct doesnt remove the Cha penalty from Warforged, so the OP has that to deal with yet. So basically the OP is trading out great racial abilities, for the Sea Dragonspawns and keeping the Stat Adjustments.
Im not familiar with Sea Dragonspawn so im not sure what your getting out of it.

[ZamielVanWeber]

That is true, but Warforged have some of the best Racial abilities of any LA 0 Race, on top of this Incarnate Construct doesnt remove the Cha penalty from Warforged, so the OP has that to deal with yet. So basically the OP is trading out great racial abilities, for the Sea Dragonspawns and keeping the Stat Adjustments.
Im not familiar with Sea Dragonspawn so im not sure what your getting out of it.

I don't have Bestiary of Kyrnn, revised, anymore but if memory serves:
+7 Nat armor
Bad breath weapon
death throes (ew)
Good swim speed
Massive stat buffs, including a +2 to Cha. I think sea netted between 8-10 on increases.

[Blackhawk748]

I don't have Bestiary of Kyrnn, revised, anymore but if memory serves:
+7 Nat armor
Bad breath weapon
death throes (ew)
Good swim speed
Massive stat buffs, including a +2 to Cha. I think sea netted between 8-10 on increases.

That nat armor is nice, meh on the rest, but good lord those stat buffs.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Tagged a friend who has my copy: It is 16 total including a +4 Cha.
edit: I apparently forgot:
immunity to sleep, paralysis, and fire and claws and a bite natural weapons.
And Sea Dragonspawn gives +10 nat armor, not +7.

Rules aside I would not permit this because I don't need a sorcerer with a to-hit to rival the fighter, HP to rival the barbarian, a solid cha, the highest AC of anyone, immunities, and a bonus level of his freakin' class, all at no cost to him.

[Flickerdart]

Warforged (MM3) - Incarnate Construct (SS) - Sea Dragonspawn (Bestiary of Krynn Revised)
My current gm is telling me the -2LA from incarnate would be lost before adding dragonspawn
Incarnate Construct is an acquired template, and cannot be added after an inherited template like Dragonspawn. Furthermore, due to the clause on the LA reduction (-2, minimum 0) any templates you actually want need to be added before Incarnate Construct so that the LA reduction hits them. Otherwise it goes "well, I did my job, your LA is now 0" and doesn't care that you added things on top later.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Incarnate Construct is an acquired template, and cannot be added after an inherited template like Dragonspawn.

They are both acquired.

[Flickerdart]

They are both acquired.
Dragonspawn is acquired? A creature doesn't inherit being the progeny of a dragon? That doesn't sound right.

[Curmudgeon]

"Spawn" in D&D could be progeny, or it could be a generation process after birth. Dragonspawn and Vampire Spawn are the latter.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Dragonspawn is acquired? A creature doesn't inherit being the progeny of a dragon? That doesn't sound right.

In Bestiary of Krynn, revised, which has sea dragon spawn in it, explicitly calls it acquired. Also dragonspawn are made when a dragon high lord fuses on their scales onto a person, giving them draconic might.

By the fluff this should be a dragonspawn abomination, since it is neither a human or an elf, but that is fluff.

[Wacky89]

sidenote: Is the dragonspawn in beastiary of krynn revised the most recent one?
I was told by the GM there is a one in Dragons of Krynn, I can't seem to find a pdf of that book

[Curmudgeon]

sidenote: Is the dragonspawn in beastiary of krynn revised the most recent one?
I was told by the GM there is a one in Dragons of Krynn, I can't seem to find a pdf of that book
Yes, Bestiary of Krynn, Revised is the most recent. There are two Dragonspawn entries in Dragons of Krynn: one Dragonspawn is a race, and the other is just the minimum errata for the template in Dragonlance Campaign Setting. The Bestiary of Krynn, Revised version is a full update that replaces the template in Dragonlance Campaign Setting. It's both up to date and (more importantly) easier to use than original + errata in two different books.

[Wacky89]

Curmudgeon would this be a correct assumption:
Since Incarnate Construct doesn't say specifically you lose your subtypes would that mean you get to keep Living Construct subtype by RAW?

[Curmudgeon]

Curmudgeon would this be a correct assumption:
Since Incarnate Construct doesn't say specifically you lose your subtypes would that mean you get to keep Living Construct subtype by RAW?
You might get to keep the name, but nothing else. The important thing about Incarnate Construct template on this point is the following:
Special Qualities: The base creature loses all its special qualities.
Living construct traits are special qualities.