Need a new character

[Buufreak]

Hey guys, been playing in a near epic level game and got killed last week. After discussing with the dm that my character was over the top in comparison to the rest of the party, i agreed to tone down shenanigans. Trouble is, i am short on ideas of what to roll.

We are running 3.5 with some Pure Steam material, lvl 18, I just ran a 6 armed shock trooper, and the party has a shadow caster and DFA. Thoughts?

[Sam K]

Well, it sounds like your party is at the level of optimization where dealing lots of damage is still a big deal, so the question is, so you want to tone that down, or do you want to make something even more OP that doesn't seem as OP?

[Buufreak]

Let me clarify a bit more. The party isnt OP'd out at all. I was the only person who tried to bring the A game to a table where everyone said they would (oh well...)

So what I am looking for is something that will be fun, without being exactly what I did before and not being the constant spotlight stealer.

[Sam K]

Batman wizard?

You rarely do damage, you just re-shape the battlefield (and sometimes the enemy) so that it suits your companions abilities a bit better. You get lots of fun options, but you can let your teammates get the glory of the kills.

[Darrin]

Thoughts?

Bardblade. Make everyone in the party borked with DFI damage up the wazoo, and you won't stand out so much.

[atemu1234]

Well, it sounds like your party is at the level of optimization where dealing lots of damage is still a big deal, so the question is, so you want to tone that down, or do you want to make something even more OP that doesn't seem as OP?

If it's the second, buffs work incredibly.

[Trasilor]

Bardblade. Make everyone in the party borked with DFI damage up the wazoo, and you won't stand out so much.

I was also going to suggest a bard of some kind.

Question: what type of game are you playing? Lots of combat or more social?

[DMVerdandi]

Codzilla bro.

Cleric and Druid are both top tier classes from the box. Both need nothing to stay that way, but gain so much as far as spell casting goes. At level 20, you could have a feat-less, naked and alone druid or cleric, and throw some random thing at them, and they may just slaughter the thing.

The good thing as well is that because of the way their spells are set up (knowing them all, prepared with a spontaneous option), they can be internally nerfed at the drop of a hat. Are the spells you are using too good for the party you are in? Pick less potent ones tomorrow. They both have tremendous breadth and depth when it comes to design.

As far as druid animal companions go, If something like a dire bear or dinosaur just isn't fitting with the campaign or whatever is going on, they have a whole host of animals to choose from. Perhaps one of the starting animals available. They still improve and gain extra HD and ability score bonuses, without being as imposing as some of the animals that become available later.


Yes, one can make some character that has an I win button on at all times, but how quickly can they change the style in which they were created? Druids and Clerics can do it tomorrow. They aren't as locked in as all the other classes, which is why they can work well as the strong weak guy. You can make them temporarily not optimized almost instantly, and it can last as long as you want it to. Most other classes are going to be either strong or weak at one time.

Clerics and Druids have the option to... Lower their own power levels just by picking the right set of spells. Don't want to nuke everything? Buff instead. Don't want to buff, Debuff. Don't want to Debuff? Summon. Don't want to summon? Control.

With those two, you have the option to not be optimized for the moment, without crippling yourself permanently.

Want an even better nerf? Don't chose divine metamagic, or natural spell. Still both viable as heck, but not as apt to break the game.

[Phelix-Mu]

Well, since the previous character was more Rock, let's go for some Roll. I think an interesting concept might be more of a Wis-synergy monk-type. Also seems like Wisdom is maybe not the strong suit of the other characters.

Given a low-op level, I'd probably stick with a basic monk with one of the various ways to get Wis to various stats. Take Invisible Fist, move into position early and often, and kick ass.

Or if monk is not your thing, maybe a halfing setting sun unarmed swordsage. Run around and toss enemies into the DFA's line of fire. First of all, the very idea is full of win, but think of the visuals: toddler-sized kung-fu master hurls around ogres, mounted enemies, and the like, tossing them in front of the DFA just in time for them to catch the breath weapon in the face. Sounds fun to me, anyway.

I can come up with an almost limitless number of ideas, but if you could provide more info on the party or your preferred type of play style, that would help narrow things down a bit.

Several of the other ideas were also quite good. I love brainstorming threads.:smallredface:

[Buufreak]

Thanks much to all, i like the ideas and support. Trying to avoid anything high tier, and a support role sounds really good. Also really liking the idea of swordsage, any suggestions on build info? I have yet to play an initiator class, and could use pointers.

[DMVerdandi]

If you want a support initiator, play a crusader.

Swordsage has access to setting sun, burning sand, diamond mind, shadow hand, tiger claw, and stone dragon. You can be the flanker if that is what you mean by buffs, but it is not the group support class at all.

Devoted spirit and white raven are the ones that really end up making a group wide effect.

Swordsage is still good for that kind of monkish role though.

[Lerondiel]

Now that you know that everyone else didn't bring their 'A game' the pressure's off.

If your focus is on creating a character to do particular roles very well, then you wont do much better than DMVerdandi's advice.


If you're creating your first initiator at 18th level it's an exercise in learning on your feet - like your first ever caster being an 18th level Sorcerer.


I say for the full kamikazi experience why not take the 18th level wizard?

If you're looking for a brain challenge and really want to experiment with your first initiator, I suggest taking Warblade1/Crusader1(although a feat or two could do the same job)/Swordsage13/Master of Nine. You'll have stances and maneuvers coming out the wazoo making it akin to a fighter/monk/wizard.
All those cool maneuvers that attracted you to an initiator? You'll basically have them all and be striking, vanishing, defending, healing, flanking and charging around the battlefield! :)

[RedMage125]

Everyone here's got some pretty good advice.

I made an NPC once for a buddy of mine, a pirate captain, and he ended up being a pretty awesome support character. He used fractional BAB, which is why this worked.

Captain "Mako" Taven; Bard 3/Marshal 1/Swashbuckler 1/Dread Pirate 9

STR 14
DEX 16 (20 after gloves)
CON 15
INT 16
WIS 15
CHA 17 (24 after level bonuses and cloak)

AC: 25, touch: 17, ff: 20

Initiative: +14

Speed: 40 ft.

HP: 113

Attack:
+2 Keen Rapier - +20/+15/+5, 1d6+4 (15-20/x2); if he moves more than 10 ft before he attacks he gets +22, 1d6+9 (15-20/x2)

When 2-weapon Fighting - +18/+13/+8 and off hand +16, 1d4+1 (18-20/x2)

Offhand weapon is a +2 Defending Kukri, with +2 always added to his defense.

Saves:
Fort: +10
Reflex: +14
Will: +10

Skills: (ranks), total modifier. Skills with a *, he can take 10 on at all times
Appraise: (8) 11
Balance: (16) 37*
Bluff: (8) 18
Climb: (0) 11*
Concentration: (0) 2 - He can use Perform to cast defensively
Diplomacy: (17) 45
Disguise: (0) 12
Escape Artist: (5) 17
Gather Information: (0) 10
Intimidate: (8) 20
Jump: (5) 7*
Listen: (2) 5
Perform (Comedy): (17) 32
Perform (Dance): (5) 20
Profession (Sailor): (14) 25
Sense Motive: (5) 7
Spellcraft: (4) 7
Spot: (2) 5
Swim: (8) 10
Tumble: (10) 27*
UMD: (8) 18
Use Rope: (5) 19

Feats:
Melodic Casting (use Perform instead of Concentration)
Bonus-Skill Focus:Perform
Quick Draw
Bonus-Weapon Finesse
Song of the Heart (add +1 to bonuses from Bard abilities)
Bonus-Two Weapon Fighting
Lingering Song (Effects of bard song end 1 minute after he stops "playing")
Combat Panache (tactical feat, from PHB2), may change this to Leadership, and have combat-oriented (or caster) cohort.

Minor Aura: Motivate Dexterity

Bard Spells Known:
0-level 3/day
Minor Disguise
Know Direction (handy when you're at sea)
Mage Hand
Mending
Prestidigitation
Detect Magic
1st level - 3/day
Inspirational Boost (Swift, add +1 to bardic music ability used this round)
Improvisation (Standard, get 6 "luck points, can be added to any check in the next 3 rounds)
Swift Invisibility (useful "oh crap" button)

Equipment: (source)
Celestial Armor (DMG)
+2 Keen Rapier (DMG)
+2 Defending Kukri (DMG)
Slippers of Battle Dancing (DMG2)
Vest of Legends (DMG2)
Badge of Valor (MIC)
Cloak of Charisma +4 (DMG)
Gloves of Dexterity +4 (DMG)
Circlet of Persuasion (DMG)
Corsair's Eyepatch (MIC)

Gold remaining: 328 gp

Now, granted that's level 14, and only mildly optimized, but he constantly grants all allies his CHA mod (+7) as an untyped to DEX-based skill checks (including Initiative). When he uses his Bardic music or Rally the Crew abilities, allies get a +5 (higher if he uses a charge from Badge of Valor or casts Inspirational Boost) to their attacks and damage. When he specifically uses Rally the Crew (swift action), allies also get his CHA mod as a dodge bonus to AC and 10+CHA temp hit points as well as being treated as having the Diehard feat.

This guy was meant to be charming and support-based, which is why he took Lingering Song and his Perform skill is Comedy. Basically, he opens combat by cracking a one-liner, and the Bardic Music buffs last for one minute after he stops "performing".

I just copy/pasted this from where I posted it before, but I'm sure with some tweaking you could get some better choices out of it (not to mention having 4 more levels). Also, the DM in that instance used rolled stats, so...your stat mileage may vary, lol.

This is just an example of how much bonuses can be shared among allies, if you want to go with the "sharing the spotlight" mentality. Dread Pirates abilities stack with Bardic ones, and like I showed, have some nice extra riders. Marshal is almost always a stupid class, but a one-level dip for a high-CHA character can net some nice bonuses for the party, just take Motivate Dexterity as your minor aura. Obviously this is a better choice if using fractional BAB.