Carrying no possessions : Ways of profit

[Pippin]

In case a wizard finds a way to improve his ability scores, saving throws, AC etc. without the help of any magic item, so that the only thing he carries is a focus for Shapechange for example, is there a feat or spell that would grant additional bonuses (or nice things) like Vow of Powerty does, but without forbidding him to own a spellbook at home or continuously carry a spell focus? Such a wizard wouldn't need to carry a bag for spell components thanks to Eschew Material.

Or if Vow of Poverty is the only option of its kind : is there maybe a way to take further advantage of this?

[Lerondiel]

Could you elaborate a bit more?

Is a player trying to gain character creation advantages by volunteering total poverty except for said spellbook & focus and you're wondering what he/she might be planning to get around the drawbacks of poverty?

[Pippin]

Could you elaborate a bit more?

Is a player trying to gain character creation advantages by volunteering total poverty except for said spellbook & focus and you're wondering what he/she might be planning to get around the drawbacks of poverty?
No it's just that most magic items granting bonuses (+6 to INT, +5 to STs, etc.) have a corresponding spell that would do a better job (+8 to INT, +6 to STs, etc.) I've just noticed that, in case that wizard manages to use all those spells instead of those magic items, well, he doesn't carry anything anymore. I was wondering how the character could take advantage of that.

[thethird]

He could benefit from that by getting items that instead of granting bonuses do other useful things.

[Lerondiel]

No it's just that most magic items granting bonuses (+6 to INT, +5 to STs, etc.) have a corresponding spell that would do a job better (+8 to INT, +6 to STs, etc.) I've just noticed that, in case that wizard manages to use all those spells instead of those magic items, well, he doesn't carry anything anymore. I was wondering how the character could take advantage of that.

I guess the minor advantage is what you may have already been alluding to - being able to shapechange into any form and have the bonuses keep running.

The significant advantage is the obvious one - he/she spends that unrequired gold on other things. In that case you're hoping it's all used on some wishes for inherent bonuses - if they start crafting an arsenal of rods etc it all gets out of hand very fast.

[gorfnab]

The Easy Bake Wizard setup (see link in my signature) can work with Vow of Poverty fairly easily, especially if you can manage two flaws at first level.

[Grooke]

First off, if you want an alternative to using no items, get a Wilding Clasp (Magic Item Compendium). It allows you to keep some while shapechanged (note: discuss with your DM if the "any item worn on the body" refers to the body slot, or if its general).

Now for stat boosters... If we're talking replacing item, that means going for enhancement bonuses (=> 6 prefereably, to stay on par with items). You'll probably want them persisted to last all day in which case Incantatrix is probably the arcane default way to go (vs DMM cleric). The regular buffs (Eagle's Splendor, Fox's Cunning...) are only +4 and touch range (so no persist unless you jump through some hoops). For physical stats, a good line is the Bite of the Were(insert animal). Up to 16 STR, 6 DEX and 8 CON with bonus feats and NA.

Mental stats are harder to get and I don't have any wizard-list ones at hand right now. Bards have Nixie's Grace for +8 CHA, Druids have Owl's Wisdol for half their level in CHA (and this one is insight in 3.5, so stacks with another enhancement bonus), and I haven't found any better than +4 INT with Fox's Cunning (again, hard to persist).

For out-of-class spells you can try getting a high-level Runecaster to make permanent (or X per day) Runes of these persisted spells, but it'll cost an arm and a leg (but it you're not buying any other items, you might make it work).

[sleepyphoenixx]

Spend your gold on bags of holding, to carry more loot. :smallbiggrin:

[Pippin]

The Easy Bake Wizard setup (see link in my signature) can work with Vow of Poverty fairly easily, especially if you can manage two flaws at first level.
That's interesting but this is based on Dragon Magazines, isn't it?


First off, if you want an alternative to using no items, get a Wilding Clasp (Magic Item Compendium). It allows you to keep some while shapechanged (note: discuss with your DM if the "any item worn on the body" refers to the body slot, or if its general).

Now for stat boosters... If we're talking replacing item, that mean going for enhancement bonuses (=> 6 prefereably, to stay on par with items). You'll probably want them persisted to last all day in which case Incantatrix is probably the arcane default way to go (vs DMM cleric). The regular buffs (Eagle's Splendor, Fox's Cunning...) are only +4 and touch range (so no persist unless you jump trhough some hoops). For physical stats, a good line is the Bite of the Were(insert animal). Up to 16 STR, 6 DEX and 8 CON with bonus feats and NA.

Mental stats are harder to get and I don't have any wizard-list ones at hand right now. Bards have Nixie's Grace for +8 CHA, Druids have Owl's Wisdol for half their level in CHA (and this one is insight in 3.5, so stacks with another enhancement bonus), and I haven't found any better than +4 INT with Fox's Cunning (again, hard to persist).

For out-of-class spells you can try getting a high-level Runecaster to make permanent (or X per day) Runes of these persisted spells, but it'll cost an arm and a leg (but it you're not buying any other items, you might make it work).
(You might want to read necrotic empowerment for the INT bonus) Thanks but I already know most of the spells I need, now I'm just trying to find further advantages besides the bonuses stacking with shapechange!

Vow of poverty especially seemed nice because of some of the bonuses, and also because of their continuous true seeing ^^ but then, he forbids you from owning a spellbook.

[sleepyphoenixx]

That's interesting but this is based on Dragon Magazines, isn't it?

(You might want to read necrotic empowerment for the INT bonus) Thanks but I already know most of the spells I need, now I'm just trying to find further advantages besides the bonuses stacking with shapechange!

Vow of poverty especially seemed nice because of some of the bonuses, and also because of their continuous true seeing ^^ but then, he forbids you from owning a spellbook.

Eidetic Spellcaster is from Dragon Magazine, yes.

There's plenty of things you can get from items that spells don't provide. Items also need to be individually dispelled so you're not completely naked when someone hits you with one.

For constant True Seeing you can get a Beguiler (Shining South) with Improved Familiar. They get constant True Seeing, can speak common, can use weapons and other items and get 3 natural attacks with Multiattack as a bonus feat. They also have good Dex and a significant bonus to hide, making them decent scouts.

[Grooke]

You might want to read necrotic empowerment for the INT bonus.

Thanks, I'd seen it before but it didn't make the particular build because of the Mother Cyst requirement. I will write it down for future reference though ^^


Vow of Poverty would be extremely difficult with a wizard. Changing your base class to Sorcerer would make VoP easier, but the Shapechange focus would still be problematic. You could try to get the DM to houserule VoP to allow a basic spellbook (for example, only the spells learned free per level, but that would be a Sorcerer-style limitation without spontaneous casting). Other options besides Eidetic Spellcaster are Spell Mastery (but its one feat/spell), or Illusion mastery ACF (but only for illusion spells).

Again, I'd try to get Wilding Clasps on all my gear.

[Pippin]

For constant True Seeing you can get a Beguiler (Shining South) with Improved Familiar. They get constant True Seeing, can speak common, can use weapons and other items and get 3 natural attacks with Multiattack as a bonus feat. They also have good Dex and a significant bonus to hide, making them decent scouts.
On Shining South a beguiler has the following ability scores:


Abilities: Str 6, Dex 17, Con 11, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 11
I'm not sure to read this right. Its "base" scores are 10 / 11 / 11 / 10 / 10 / 11 and its racial modifications are -4 / +6 / +0 / +2 / +0 / +0 right? Ie. -2 / +4 / +0 / +2 / +0 / +0 then apply size modifications for Small?

I was starting to think, wow I should totally play this race as a PC. Then I remembered that you lose your own (Su) abilities when you change forms via shapechange Q_Q so you'd lose true seeing.