Incantatrix sorcerer question [3.5]

[Bad Wolf]

Just a question. Everyone says that Persist Spell is the best metamagic feat for Incantatrix's (and clerics), as you can make your buffs last all day.

However, I'm not so sure about that for me. I'm playing a sorcerer,which means I have less known spells, which lessens the desirability of Persisting. So how about it guys? Is Persist Spell a good fear for incantatrix sorcerers,or should I look elsewhere?

Also, don't know if this makes a difference, but I'm planning on taking the Domain Access ACF from Complete Champion at 5th level. Still looking for a good domain , though.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Do the Ancestral Relic Runestaff (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?267805-Sorcerer-Handbook#4) trick, and you can put all your 1/day buffs on that without spending any spells known.

[PseudoPanda]

I'd agree that it's less desirable for a Sorcerer to take but that doesn't make it pointless. Remember, metamagic effect can apply to any spell currently in effect so it applies to the spells you cast from an item as well. Also, cooperative metamagic lets you apply it to your allies' spells too so there are some benefits to having it but definitely less overall versatility than a Wizard.

[Grooke]

Its use also depends heavily on how you want to play. A blaster type (though not optimal and prone to DM nerf) will find Persist pointless. It wont be very useful for debuffs/control either. You shouldn't feel bad about not picking it and going for quicken, shape, ocular... there are plenty of metamagic feats out there.

[AnonymousPepper]

Another reason Incantatrix usually isn't that good on Sorcs is that the Metamagic Effect ability - the key to the class's power - is keyed off of INT, in two different ways, namely the number of uses per day and your Spellcraft modifier. It can still work, but only if you have three good scores to start with (for your CHA, CON, and INT).

As for domains, I'd suggest either Luck or Destiny. Luck gives you Miracle, which is straight-up better than Wish in most respects and is easily the most versatile spell in the game. Destiny gives you Choose Destiny, which is hands-down the best divination in the game and a top 5 spell period (swift action cast, personal range [for an incantatrix, that's !!!!!!!], rounds/level duration, all attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, and saves, you roll twice and take the best result).

[Bad Wolf]

Another reason Incantatrix usually isn't that good on Sorcs is that the Metamagic Effect ability - the key to the class's power - is keyed off of INT, in two different ways, namely the number of uses per day and your Spellcraft modifier. It can still work, but only if you have three good scores to start with (for your CHA, CON, and INT).

As for domains, I'd suggest either Luck or Destiny. Luck gives you Miracle, which is straight-up better than Wish in most respects and is easily the most versatile spell in the game. Destiny gives you Choose Destiny, which is hands-down the best divination in the game and a top 5 spell period (swift action cast, personal range [for an incantatrix, that's !!!!!!!], rounds/level duration, all attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, and saves, you roll twice and take the best result).

Huh, guess I'll take Luck Domain and the Quick Recovery feat for Celerity shenanigans. Or is there a domain that grants immunity to daze?

[Zaq]

Huh, guess I'll take Luck Domain and the Quick Recovery feat for Celerity shenanigans. Or is there a domain that grants immunity to daze?

I don't think there's a domain for it. Daze immunity is pretty limited. You're basically stuck with Favor of the Martyr (a spell) and Mark of the Dauntless (a feat) for true immunity. I wouldn't be shocked if there's one or two other sources of immunity in the game, but there's not THAT much.

[Bad Wolf]

Oh, yeah and BoED and BoVD are banned, so...no Ancestral Relic trick.


Its use also depends heavily on how you want to play. A blaster type (though not optimal and prone to DM nerf) will find Persist pointless. It wont be very useful for debuffs/control either. You shouldn't feel bad about not picking it and going for quicken, shape, ocular... there are plenty of metamagic feats out there.

Yeah, that's sorta the problem. I don't know what kind of playstyle I'm gonna try out. Maybe something with abjuration spells?

Any suggestions?

[dextercorvia]

A persistant buffer Sorcerer is a valid style. Remember that Shapechange is persistable, and that is about the epitome of versatility. Some other examples of nice persistable buffs you'll not mind having: Bite of the Wereboar, Veil of Undeath, Necrotic Empowerment (Mother Cyst and Apprentice Spellcaster will help with your shortage of spells known. Link in my sig.), Friendly Fire, Wraithstrike, etc.

[Bad Wolf]

A persistant buffer Sorcerer is a valid style. Remember that Shapechange is persistable, and that is about the epitome of versatility. Some other examples of nice persistable buffs you'll not mind having: Bite of the Wereboar, Veil of Undeath, Necrotic Empowerment (Mother Cyst and Apprentice Spellcaster will help with your shortage of spells known. Link in my sig.), Friendly Fire, Wraithstrike, etc.

I guess I'll pick up Mother Cyst in my ninth slot... Okay, I guess Persistomancer is the way to go. Might have a lack of other spells known or not enough persistable spells, but who cares when you can be a Wereboar? Is there a guide to the best persistable spells?

[Grooke]

Top 10 Arcane Persistable Spells by Level (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=3cinngm223hhmdagutqptdbh47&topic=12944.0)
List of Arcane Persistable Spells up to 9th Level (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=3cinngm223hhmdagutqptdbh47&topic=12372.0)

OP has more links in his sig. Also note that if your DM allows Ocular + Persist shenanigans, the list is basically every buff in the game.

[Bad Wolf]

Top 10 Arcane Persistable Spells by Level (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=3cinngm223hhmdagutqptdbh47&topic=12944.0)
List of Arcane Persistable Spells up to 9th Level (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=3cinngm223hhmdagutqptdbh47&topic=12372.0)

OP has more links in his sig. Also note that if your DM allows Ocular + Persist shenanigans, the list is basically every buff in the game.

Okay, thanks for the help.

[Tora1024]

Hello there guys, I got a question related to this topic that I have been wondering around since I decided to go on the arcane side of the magic.

First time posting here, also, first time playing as a sorcerer (decided for sorc instead of wizard since it appeared more appealing and simple to use and understand at first.. might not be the wisest choice now that I had read here and there, but there's no going back at this point hehe)

Well, thing is.. I wanted to optimize my character as much as I could, and incantatrix sounded like the way to go for every arcane magic user.. since it is allowed in my campaing, I was working the requirements and everything, and read a lot to make best of out of it, but theres little info or experiences of sorcerers as incantatrix,.. for all the downsides you have mentioned earlier I assume.

So, I'd like to expose my current situation, and concerns, and luckily get some piece of advise in which path to take, wouldnt want to make a bad choice now that I am getting closer to taking the prestige class.

Here's some info about my char and campaing:

- Lvl5 sorcerer
- Got a 14 on intelligence, not bad, not the best either.
- Our DM is a little picky on giving us stuff or gold pieces sometimes, so buying items is always a pain.
- I am stuck in core books, completes, some for the Forgotten Realms setting and Magic Item Compendium, making the buffing on spellcraft a bit more difficult.

With those variables in mind, I am getting to the conclusion that, persist spells would be hard, since I would need at least a 36 on a spellcraft check for a lvl1 spell, 39 for lvl2, and so on.. currently I only have the maxed ranks by my level (8), sinergy on spell craft by knowledge arcana (+2), and int bonus (+2) for a total of 12.. amongs the posibilities to buff this skill I think I can:

- Buy a tome of the ancient lore (5500gp + a 20% charge for an item that doesnt belong to the player's handbook) that would give me a +5 if I understand correctly.
- Buy a masterwork tool that could give me another +2 on spelcraft (50gp).
- Buy a wand or scroll or potion or something that gives me the effects of "divine insigth" spell, hopefully crafted with a caster level of at least 5, that would be another +10 on the skill check,.. but a costly buff if you ask me.

Aside from that, I guess it'd be adquiring unuseful feats (which are precious to the sorcerer to waste).

All that for a grand total of +17 hopefully... not high enough I suppose,.. is there any other means to get this skill boosted?

Maybe boosting int with items, but I'd much prefer to do the investment on cha, since its my primary ability.

So, yeah... those are mainly my concerns here.. not sure if persisting spells would be possible for me.. at least for lvl3 and up.

Any advise or feedback, everything would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks a bunch in advance.

[Rebel7284]

Hello there guys, I got a question related to this topic that I have been wondering around since I decided to go on the arcane side of the magic.

First time posting here, also, first time playing as a sorcerer (decided for sorc instead of wizard since it appeared more appealing and simple to use and understand at first.. might not be the wisest choice now that I had read here and there, but there's no going back at this point hehe)

Well, thing is.. I wanted to optimize my character as much as I could, and incantatrix sounded like the way to go for every arcane magic user.. since it is allowed in my campaing, I was working the requirements and everything, and read a lot to make best of out of it, but theres little info or experiences of sorcerers as incantatrix,.. for all the downsides you have mentioned earlier I assume.

So, I'd like to expose my current situation, and concerns, and luckily get some piece of advise in which path to take, wouldnt want to make a bad choice now that I am getting closer to taking the prestige class.

Here's some info about my char and campaing:

- Lvl5 sorcerer
- Got a 14 on intelligence, not bad, not the best either.
- Our DM is a little picky on giving us stuff or gold pieces sometimes, so buying items is always a pain.
- I am stuck in core books, completes, some for the Forgotten Realms setting and Magic Item Compendium, making the buffing on spellcraft a bit more difficult.

With those variables in mind, I am getting to the conclusion that, persist spells would be hard, since I would need at least a 36 on a spellcraft check for a lvl1 spell, 39 for lvl2, and so on.. currently I only have the maxed ranks by my level (8), sinergy on spell craft by knowledge arcana (+2), and int bonus (+2) for a total of 12.. amongs the posibilities to buff this skill I think I can:

- Buy a tome of the ancient lore (5500gp + a 20% charge for an item that doesnt belong to the player's handbook) that would give me a +5 if I understand correctly.
- Buy a masterwork tool that could give me another +2 on spelcraft (50gp).
- Buy a wand or scroll or potion or something that gives me the effects of "divine insigth" spell, hopefully crafted with a caster level of at least 5, that would be another +10 on the skill check,.. but a costly buff if you ask me.

Aside from that, I guess it'd be adquiring unuseful feats (which are precious to the sorcerer to waste).

All that for a grand total of +17 hopefully... not high enough I suppose,.. is there any other means to get this skill boosted?

Maybe boosting int with items, but I'd much prefer to do the investment on cha, since its my primary ability.

So, yeah... those are mainly my concerns here.. not sure if persisting spells would be possible for me.. at least for lvl3 and up.

Any advise or feedback, everything would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks a bunch in advance.

Can you take Item Familiar feat? It's not core, but it IS open content and in the SRD.

That would allow you to catch up in ranks very quickly.

Also, in general, resurrection of old threads is frowned upon. Start a new one. Link back if an old one inspired you.

[Tora1024]

Apologies, I thought it'd be better not to open a whole new thread with an already existing topic (normally that its not encouraged in other forums)..

Anyway, Item Familiar feat is out of the reach for me I am afraid :/ I consulted with my DM but guess its out of question.

[Bad Wolf]

Apologies, I thought it'd be better not to open a whole new thread with an already existing topic (normally that its not encouraged in other forums)..

Anyway, Item Familiar feat is out of the reach for me I am afraid :/ I consulted with my DM but guess its out of question.

That usually doesn't apply to two different people asking for advice.