How to avoid attacks of opportunity?

[badgerman]

I'm looking for a way to avoid attacks of opportunity I triggered. For sure the two best ways are not to trigger them and in case of, having a high AC.
I'm trying to create a flexible combatant by using the factotum and its brains over brawn adding a high attack roll with things like for example knowledge devotion.
The greatest problem about making all the funny things in combat like tripping, disarming, grappling, sundering etc. are the attacks of opportunity in my opinion.
Unfortunately I'm not capable of taking all the feats required to avoid the attacks (improved grapple, improved trip, etc.).
The "at the moment solution" is taking combat expertise and improved feint in combination with the skill trick timely misdirection but it is limited to once per encounter. At least it helps me trying whatever i want.

So, my question is: Is there another solution ?

Thank you.

[Troacctid]

Take Obtain Familiar to get a raven familiar, then give it a command-activated item that casts grease at will (approximately 2000 gp according to the custom magic item creation guidelines). Have it grease the ground under your target before you make the attempt. If they don't have 5 or more ranks in Balance (and most creatures in the Monster Manual don't) then they'll be flat-footed and won't be able to AoO you. Plus, they might even fall prone, which is gravy.

The raven will also be able to assist your skill checks and make additional checks of its own, so it should have a lot of additional utility too.

(Caveat: I don't actually remember off the top of my head if Factotums can qualify for Obtain Familiar. If not, you could always ask the party's Sorcerer to lend you his.)

[Curmudgeon]

Have it grease the ground under your target before you make the attempt. If they don't have 5 or more ranks in Balance (and most creatures in the Monster Manual don't) then they'll be flat-footed and won't be able to AoO you.
That's not right, as far as I can tell.
A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Balance check. They're only Balancing (and thus flat-footed) when they try to walk, which is on their turn. They're not flat-footed otherwise, so they can make AoOs without issue.

[badgerman]

Ooohkay :)

but thanks anyway. You helped me to recognize the "flatfooted" part. I was quite stupid to forget about that. So "Quickdraw" for example could help me to get some more skill tricks to "flat foot" my opponents or get flick of a wrist. Still not the most effective way but widens the spectrum.

[JohnDaBarr]

I am not sure that there is a feat for that but for most tumble seems to do the trick.

[Troacctid]

If you are invisible, or if the enemy is blinded, that also prevents them from taking attacks of opportunity against you, assuming they don't have blindsight or something.

[SinsI]

You want to get Total Concealment:

You can’t execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with total concealment, even if you know what square or squares the opponent occupies.

Just get yourself a ring of invisibility - it grants Total Concealment.

[Zaq]

Just get yourself a ring of invisibility - it grants Total Concealment.

. . . At the cost of a standard action, and that invisibility goes away after each attack (which includes trips and disarms and the other stuff the OP plans to do). You'd be much better off with a wand of Greater Invisibility—it doesn't last as long as Invisibility, so you'll probably have to activate it in combat, but you'll only have to activate it once per combat.

You could also get a wand of Heroics (and/or prepare it with your Factotum SLAs). It lets you get a Fighter bonus feat for the duration of the spell, so you can give yourself whatever Improved X you had in mind. (Again, this will take an action in combat, but it should last for the duration of the combat.) Some of them are behind nasty prereqs, so it will work better with some than with others, but that can't really be helped.

[kaffalidjmah]

Mmm...adding setting sun (from tome of battle) maneuver? Take a dip in the swordsage, like 2/3 level are enough and gain fantastic trip/throw away stuff

[rrwoods]

Not a feat, but ranks in Tumble are always good (and at least 5 ranks in the skills that provide synergy bonuses).

[Jormengand]

KoKPG has a feat that allows you to force a will save DC 10+CHA to make an AoO against you. The prerequisite feat is hardly terrible either.

Mobility increases your AC against attacks of opportunity, but... it's mobility.

[Curmudgeon]

Mobility increases your AC against attacks of opportunity, but... it's mobility.
It's a feat, but you can gain its benefit by buying the armor enhancement of the same name.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Just use a reach weapon with the necessary quality (glaive for trip, ranseur for disarm, spiked chain for both). If they don't have reach themselves they can't make AoO's against you.

[Thurbane]

Get a supply of Armbands of Elusive Action?

[Darrin]

If you have access to Dragon Magazine, try the Elusive Dance feat in issue #333.

Otherwise... maybe Martial Study to grab Cloak of Deception.

[badgerman]

Just use a reach weapon with the necessary quality (glaive for trip, ranseur for disarm, spiked chain for both). If they don't have reach themselves they can't make AoO's against you.

Hmm, interesting option could be a morphing weapon with glaive, ranseur and pincer for grapple. Proficiency granted by "master's touch swift" spell.

Also wasn't aware of the armor enhancement mobility.

But one question: Do I get the AC bonus from mobility when triggering the AoO with Disarm, etc.? I am not sure because I thought AC Bonus only resolves when leaving a threatened square causes the AoO.

Great options thanks a lot.

Looking forward for more to come.

[Troacctid]

Mobility only protects you from opportunity attacks provoked by moving out of threatened squares.

[SiuiS]

There is a feat that lets you pick a target and declare that they simply cannot make AoOs against you, period. I believe it's the elusive dance one mentioned?

[Rubik]

A reach weapon + Hidden Talent (Expansion) + arcane dilettante (Enlarge Person) + eternal dorje/wand (Expansion/Enlarge Person) to use your combat maneuvers. Doesn't matter if you provoke attacks of opportunity if you're not within their threat range.

Also, cast No Light and equip the ring of the darkhidden. Cheap Superior Invisibility against most foes at VERY low level.

[badgerman]

That's not right, as far as I can tell. They're only Balancing (and thus flat-footed) when they try to walk, which is on their turn. They're not flat-footed otherwise, so they can make AoOs without issue.

If they become flat-footed, doesn't that last for 1 round till its their turn again? So would be still an option even if not in the same round as grease was cast.

[Darrin]

If they become flat-footed, doesn't that last for 1 round till its their turn again? So would be still an option even if not in the same round as grease was cast.

The Balance rules are not clear when a balance check needs to be made, and they don't specify at what point you're considered balancing. Most triggering conditions happen when you enter a square (rather than leaving or just occupying a square), but we don't even have that language here. We have "while walking" and "along the surface", but that doesn't tell us when the balancing actually starts. Most people have interpreted this to mean that you have to make a Balance check when entering a square that's slippery/uneven/narrow/etc., so a creature that gets grease cast underneath them can make an argument that they aren't actually balancing (and thus not flat-footed) until they are required to make a Balance check or attempt to move into another square that this greased. Fortunately, we do have the rule for "Being Attacked While Balancing", but unfortunately the text does nothing to help clarify when the balancing actually starts. You do have to make a Balance check if you take damage "while balancing", but if your target insists that he never made a Balance check and never moved into a square that required one, then he can make an argument that "while balancing" doesn't apply.

It doesn't help that each of the "slip and fall down" spells have a completely different mechanic to check if someone falls prone. Grease starts with a Ref save but doesn't call for a Balance check until the target tries to move within or through the affected area. Sleet storm doesn't have the initial Ref save, but has the same "within or through" language from grease. Ice slick (Frostburn) uses a Balance check instead of a Ref save, both when the spell is initially cast and whenever anything moves through the area. Impeding stones (Cityscape) starts with a Ref save, but anyone moving through can choose between a Ref save or Balance check.

To avoid most of this pedantry, most people play with the following understanding: "If you are attacked while standing on a slippery or uneven surface, you are considered balancing and thus flat-footed (without 5 ranks in Balance), even if you have not made a Ref save or Balance check yet."

As far as the original question goes, I'd say that you need to be able to move within your square to make an Attack of Opportunity, so casting grease under someone to render them flat-footed would prevent them from making AoOs. But that would probably be considered a house rule.

[badgerman]

Ahh ok, thanks a lot for the explanation. Will talk about the interpretation used at our table with my DM.

[Curmudgeon]

If they become flat-footed, doesn't that last for 1 round till its their turn again?
By the strict definition of flat-footed (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_flatfooted&alpha=F), that condition goes away once a creature has acted in the current encounter.
flat-footed

Especially vulnerable to attacks at the beginning of a battle. Characters are flat-footed until their first turns in the initiative cycle. A flat-footed creature loses its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.

[OldTrees1]

By the strict definition of flat-footed (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_flatfooted&alpha=F), that condition goes away once a creature has acted in the current encounter.

Technically that merely says that characters are temporarily flatfooted not that being flatfooted is inherently temporary nor that it is always ended by the same condition.

So while you could read it as "a character rendered flatfooted on round 3 is instantaneously cured since they acted on round 1", many might read it as "a character rendered flatfooted on round 3 is flatfooted until next they act". Of course pedantic Devils advocates might be annoying and argue "they are never cured" or "they are only cured at the beginning of the next combat".

[Curmudgeon]

So while you could read it as "a character rendered flatfooted on round 3 is instantaneously cured since they acted on round 1", many might read it as "a character rendered flatfooted on round 3 is flatfooted until next they act".
No, "until their first turns in the initiative cycle" isn't "until next they act". Once you've had your first turn in the initiative cycle you've established the requirement to no longer be flat-footed.

[OldTrees1]

No, "until their first turns in the initiative cycle" isn't "until next they act". Once you've had your first turn in the initiative cycle you've established the requirement to no longer be flat-footed.


Characters are flat-footed until their first turns in the initiative cycle.

This sentence describes the state of characters during the period from start of combat until their first turn in the initiative cycle. It does not state a requirement to end the condition. Instead it states a duration of a specific instance of the condition. It makes no claim outside of that time period.

[Curmudgeon]

This sentence describes the state of characters during the period from start of combat until their first turn in the initiative cycle. It does not state a requirement to end the condition.
It's true that the limitation is not expressed there. It's the actual definition (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_flatfooted&alpha=F) of the term (in the Glossary: Player's Handbook, page 308) which makes the condition dependent on it being at the beginning of a battle
flat-footed: Especially vulnerable to attacks at the beginning of a battle.

[badgerman]

Ahem, I am sorry to ask again, but I still don't get it. Maybe my English is just too bad :(

So lets make an example which might help me finally understand.

Encounter with 1 character and 1 npc: Char ini 15, npc ini 10 npc balance less than 5
Surprise round: nothing happens.
1st round:both are moving (nothing else)
2nd round: INI 15 Char casts grease down to the npcs feet (duration of the spell 5 rounds). INI 10 npc tries to move through a 'greased' field. He fails the balance check but has a good ref save and doesn't end up prone.
3rd round: INI 15 Char tries to trip the npc.

At this time, is the npc flat-footed ?

[OldTrees1]

It's true that the limitation is not expressed there. It's the actual definition (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_flatfooted&alpha=F) of the term (in the Glossary: Player's Handbook, page 308) which makes the condition dependent on it being at the beginning of a battle

How is your interpretation consistent with

Being Attacked while Balancing
You are considered flat-footed while balancing, since you can’t move to avoid a blow, and thus you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). If you have 5 or more ranks in Balance, you aren’t considered flat-footed while balancing.

Does balancing restart combat or can you be considered flat-footed outside of the beginning of battle? Or is your interpretation inconsistent?


Ahem, I am sorry to ask again, but I still don't get it. Maybe my English is just too bad :(

So lets make an example which might help me finally understand.

Encounter with 1 character and 1 npc: Char ini 15, npc ini 10 npc balance less than 5
Surprise round: nothing happens.
1st round:both are moving (nothing else)
2nd round: INI 15 Char casts grease down to the npcs feet (duration of the spell 5 rounds). INI 10 npc tries to move through a 'greased' field. He fails the balance check but has a good ref save and doesn't end up prone.
3rd round: INI 15 Char tries to trip the npc.

At this time, is the npc flat-footed ?

Personally I go with a balancing character is not flat-footed but are considered flat-footed when attacked while balancing. So at that time I consider the NPC to be considered flat-footed.

[Curmudgeon]

Does balancing restart combat or can you be considered flat-footed outside of the beginning of battle?
Everything which purports to make you flat-footed after you've already acted in combat is just nonsensical, as far as I can tell.

[OldTrees1]

Everything which purports to make you flat-footed after you've already acted in combat is just nonsensical, as far as I can tell.

I don't think that is the rules fault in this case. It might be yours. I mentioned 3 interpretations (2 of them being pedantic devil's advocates) that resolve the dysfunction your interpretation creates.

[badgerman]

At the time titans and trolls are arguing, pixies just should shut their mouths :)

I will do it that way and say thank you for teaching me some rules. But to be honest I feel lucky about leaving this specific problem to my dm now. :smallbiggrin:

[OldTrees1]

At the time titans and trolls are arguing, pixies just should shut their mouths :)

I will do it that way and say thank you for teaching me some rules. But to be honest I feel lucky about leaving this specific problem to my dm now. :smallbiggrin:

You're welcome. However, I think it is important to note that "wisdom is not exclusive to the wise" and "seniority is not the same as wisdom". So no, titans and trolls arguing does not mean pixies should be quiet.

[bjoern]

Take a few ranks. rank in tumble, then get the psychoactive skin from the MIC that gives a bonus (+10 I think) to tumble.

Once your tumble check gets to +14 you'll always succeed since its a dc15 to tumble through a threatened square without provoking.

[Deox]

Take a few ranks. rank in tumble, then get the psychoactive skin from the MIC that gives a bonus (+10 I think) to tumble.

Once your tumble check gets to +14 you'll always succeed since its a dc15 to tumble through a threatened square without provoking.

True, if only one opponent ever.


Designated Exceptions
Some creatures break the above rules. A creature that completely fills the squares it occupies cannot be moved past, even with the Tumble skill or similar special abilities.

..and..


Check separately for each opponent you move past, in the order in which you pass them (player’s choice of order in case of a tie). Each additional enemy after the first adds +2 to the Tumble DC.

[Darrin]

Everything which purports to make you flat-footed after you've already acted in combat is just nonsensical, as far as I can tell.

No, just sloppy system design. The designers used "flat-footed" as a mechanic to show when a creature was unprepared or unable to respond to an attack. When writing the Balance rules, it was easier to just use the term "flat-footed" rather than describe a new condition. The Climbing rules should have had similar language (as Table 8-6 on PHB page 151 suggests), but they opted to spell out "lose your Dexterity bonus" rather than use the "flat-footed" term.

The fact that the designers didn't go back to specify that there may be times other than the start of combat when you could be caught flat-footed does not mean that they intended to irrevocably forbid flat-footed from happening at any time after the start of combat, it just means they were sloppy and inconsistent.

The "denied Dex bonus" condition pops up so frequently, I'm puzzled why they didn't codify this with a clearer keyword, as they already had one with "flat-footed". You can see them struggle with this a bit through the course of 3.x, and then try to patch things up in the Rules Compendium. Check out this patch job in the Hide skill (RC page 92):

"If you’re successfully hidden with respect to another creature, that creature is flat-footed with respect to you. That creature treats you as if you were invisible (see page 76)."

And yet, throughout the Rules Compendium, Flat-Footed is only defined as a "beginning of combat" condition. Way to go, designers!