That weird thing called love.

[Mordokai]

Geez, I hope this is a right place.

Lets say I've never been much for the whole love thing. Sure, had a few crushes in high school and all that, but nothing major. Never really cared much for it either, since I quite enjoyed being alone. To say I have little experience with relationship(and women in general, honestly) would be a massive understatement.

This changed few months ago. A certain coworker that used to work in different department before moved to one where I work as well. After some time, we started having coffee breaks together, chatting about this and that. Long story short, funny as it may sound, I started caring a great deal about her. Wouldn't call it love just yet, but I certainly want something more than just friendship with her. So, trying to act like a mature person, I baked some sweets for her, letting her know I want to do something nice for her, which was true. Always made sure to gave her something extra for her daughter as well. Called her when she was sick, talked to her, told her to tell me if she needs anything so I can bring it to her. Gave her a tiny teddy bear I won at one of those things when you put a coin in try to catch a prize. In short, I acted like a love struck fool.

I finally told her how I feel about her. She said she noticed as much(no big surprise there, I think pretty much everybody noticed that). She also said she doesn't want to be with a coworker again, since she tried that two times already(know about one of them, didn't knew about the other) and doesn't want to do it again. She thanked me for my honesty(which confuses me still) and that was it. I wouldn't say our relationship got colder after that, but we certainly acted a little more cautious around each other for some time after that. A necessity, I guess. I told her I won't hold it against her if she doesn't feel the same as I do.

I surprised myself when I found out I actually meant that. Of course, she was pretty nice when she friendzoned me, so that helped. But I think we both acted pretty maturely here. We didn't burn any bridges behind us.

Lately, the relationship between us warmed up again. We started having coffee breaks together again, when the time allows. We chat normally. And I'd lie if I'd say I still don't feel for her. Other people have noticed this as well. And as they say, persistence pays off.

One of our mutual friends arranged for the three of us to go do some beer tasting at the newly opened alehouse. Says he thinks we'd be good together and that we both need just a little push and that I just need not to give up.

And this is where I'm confused. When I confessed to her what I feel about her, she said she wanted us to be just friends and that she doesn't want to date coworker again. That may have been just an excuse(however valid), so she didn't have to say she doesn't like me. However, I recognize that my low self esteem is talking there. Because I get the feeling that she does like me and that just maybe we could be something more than just friends. Maybe she just wants to see if I'm serious or I just wanted to crawl into her pants? But as said, I have little experience in the field of relationships and women in general, so I might be seeing something that's not there.

So any advice from people who have more experience is welcome. I try not to be pushy and I think I'm doing quite well. But I do want something more out of this and it'd be very sad if I missed on an opportunity of a lifetime because I got cold feet. Did that too many times in that past, although not romance related.

Oh and Cristo? Laugh and you'll never need a dentist again :smalltongue:

[Cristo Meyers]

Oh and Cristo? Laugh and you'll never need a dentist again :smalltongue:

Come on, man, we've known each other for how long?

...wait, good point.

You're kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place, here. If you're comfortable with the friendship, then keep going. There's no reason to throw away a good friend if you don't have to. But if you're always going to be looking for that friendship to evolve into a romantic relationship, then you're going to want to take a step back and really look at this because there's the very real possibility that it'll never happen. Plus just going straight to 'break it off' for the friendship is really just going to cause a lot of confusion and hurt feelings in general.

Honestly, I say keep going as you are as long as you're comfortable. Don't be pushy, and if you find that you can't be a friend without also trying to go forward into a romantic relationship she's not interested in then it's time to back off for both your sakes.

[Afool]

The level of uncanny valley is almost staggering. If I'm using that phrase right.

Basically, I'm in a similar position with a friend of mine (though we're both a bit younger than you are). I highly recommend what Liffguard and Cristo are saying. She knows how you feel and if she desires for things to change, she'll let you know.

The only thing I can really add to this is to focus on being the best friend you can be. Supporting the people you love and care about is one of the most important things one can do (in my opinion), and if they're happy then the best you can do is be happy that they're happy. It's worked pretty decently for me, and if a job opportunity pans out, in a couple months we'll be (platonically) moving into an apartment together.

The most significant issue I can foresee you having is envy/jealousy. Seeing other people have different types of relationships with your friend that you want to have with her, platonically, romantically, and/or sexually, can definitely be something that could potentially bother you if only because of a voice in your head asking, "Why can't I have that? Does this mean she wants them more involved in her life than me?" or other things like that. A key I've found to shutting that voice up is to wholeheartedly desire your friend to be happy.

Be happy that she has someone to talk to things about.

Be happy that she has someone she can be intimate with.

Be happy that she got laid/made a beast with two or more backs/had sex/other euphemism.

Support your friend in all she does and enjoy the time you have with her. You never know when the last time you see her will be and it always happen sooner than you expect it to.

Good luck, and may you have decades of memories to come with your friend.

[Gritmonger]

The level of uncanny valley is almost staggering. If I'm using that phrase right.

The uncanny valley usually refers to objects, automatons, personalities, and the like approaching human when, at a short distance from totally real, they become repellant because they are just off by enough to be evidently not human.

[Jaycemonde]

Keep in mind that romantic love and platonic love aren't separate stages. Romantic love isn't "better" than platonic or vice versa. I'm closer to some of my friends than I'll ever be to my SO, and that doesn't mean anything bad about my SO and I or our future together.

In other words, don't jeopardize your friendship because you want to make it something "more," because there's no real point to it and butting your head against the wall isn't gonna help when there's cool friend stuff to do like hang out.


Also, women generally don't use "I'd rather not date" as a code-word for "I want to date, but you need to be persistent." Keep that in mind as well.

[SowZ]

Second what has already been said. You put your cards on the table, and now the ball is in her court. Mixed metaphors aside, things warming up to where they were at before is a good thing. Glad you guys moved past all this. If you try and make something happen again, that distance y'all had for a while there might return and not go away this time. If she has changed her mind, she can let you know. It's 2015, after all.

[Bulldog Psion]

Pardon me if I inject a note of less-than-political-correctness, or whatever, here, but I'm not entirely sure the "just stay friends" is a great idea, either.

If I can speak more frankly here than most people usually do --

Romance is, in reality, a form of heavily sexualized friendship. There's a strong element of appreciation and respect for the individual involved, which is what sets it clearly apart from casual lust. But pretending it's not in large measure about sex is just hiding one's head in the sand, IMO, YMMV, etc. Romance = sex. Romantic love = sex. Just sex modified and enriched, if you will, by an intense appreciation of the individual. But to pretend that it's not primarily about sex is to deny reality and set oneself up for poor decisions and disappointment. And possibly more negative drama than anybody needs or wants.

Basic friendship, on the other hand, has no sexual element to it. It can be very close, it can be long-lasting, it can be a real "shield-on-shoulder" situation.

But, in effect, once you add "romance" to the mix, it's not "just" friendship any more, and it just can't be. The problem is here that one party is friendly to the other and also has strong sexual interest in them; the other one is friendly, but does not have any sexual interest in their buddy.

As far as I can see, any chance of this working as a friendship is a pipe dream. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

The problem is that sexual interest isn't something subject to reason. You can't just set it aside and forget about it. It's either there, or it isn't, and it's not subject to an on/off switch. If it's something that you disagree about -- say, whether stickshifts or automatics are more enjoyable to drive -- you can just ignore that bit and get on with your friendship. But throw sex into the mix and you simply can't avoid it.

You're sexually attracted to the lady -- quite strongly, from the sounds of it. She just isn't into you. That's fine -- on your side, it's something that just happens, and on her side, it's her prerogative and again something that just happens.

So, my thought is that this situation isn't fair to you. You're the guy on a zero-sugar diet, so to speak, spending his time hanging around in a candy store. It sounds to me like you're tormenting yourself with something you can't have because you feel that you should be a good friend, or whatever.

Note that I'm not blaming her, either. I'm saying that you're effectively not being fair to yourself. If you keep being friends with her and hanging around with her, you're just torturing yourself with something you can't have, and hanging around, perhaps, partly in the hopes that you will get what you're never, in fact, going to get.

So, in conclusion, here's what I'd recommend:

Ask yourself, and answer as honestly as possible, the following question.

"Would I still be friends with this woman in exactly the same way if I had the same romantic feelings for another woman, and in this case, the second woman reciprocated fully?"

In other words, if you were in a long-term romantic relationship with another woman, would you still have the same level of friendship with this one?

If your answer is honestly yes, then I'd recommend continuing the friendship as it is (while looking for a woman who will reciprocate your romantic feelings. Believe me when my battle-scarred, much-mended broken heart tells you that despite all the romance writers and poets, there is no such thing as "The One." There is no one person who is the only person whom another individual can have a relationship with; this doesn't mean that there aren't lifelong romances, it just means that if the person doesn't or can't reciprocate, you haven't found that romance yet, no matter if you can't imagine anyone else at the moment).

If the answer is no, then I'd suggest toning back the friendship. Don't ditch it outright, but don't give it more energy than it's ultimately worth to you, either. If you're mostly or even partly being friends simply because you're hoping she'll change her mind, it's probably not going to happen. Meaning you're investing in something that will produce nothing but pain and frustration for you, and that will cause more pain and frustration the more investment you make in it.

Again, I apologize if this comes across as hard or offensive in any way. It's just that life has kicked me in the teeth often enough -- like every five minutes, it sometimes seems -- that to me, it looks like you're putting a lot of emotional investment into something that's just not going to pay off for you in the way you want. And in the end, you've only got a limited time on earth and limited emotional resources to bestow on other people. Use them both wisely and look out for #1 in this regard. If you do so, you'll actually benefit the other person more than if you maintain a friendship with them that is based on false hope.

[Afool]

The uncanny valley usually refers to objects, automatons, personalities, and the like approaching human when, at a short distance from totally real, they become repellant because they are just off by enough to be evidently not human.

Thank you. Google had supported this but some apparent misuses of the phrase had thrown some confusion in there.

Relating to what Bulldog Psion's said, while I don't agree that romance needs to involve sex, nor sex romance, (and I'm of the mind that sexual desire is something that one can recognize and then put in a box to ignore) the question they propose is a very good one to ask yourself. But whatever your answer is, it's up to you to figure out what your next step is for you. What will be best for you and for your friend is a good question to ask yourself.

[Coidzor]

Keep in mind that romantic love and platonic love aren't separate stages.

They are, however, discrete phenomena for alloromantics.


Geez, I hope this is a right place.

I'd have gone with the RWA thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?405876-Relationship-Woes-and-Advice-XXVI-Status-It-s-Complicated), but that's me.


I finally told her how I feel about her. She said she noticed as much(no big surprise there, I think pretty much everybody noticed that). She also said she doesn't want to be with a coworker again, since she tried that two times already(know about one of them, didn't knew about the other) and doesn't want to do it again. She thanked me for my honesty(which confuses me still) and that was it. I wouldn't say our relationship got colder after that, but we certainly acted a little more cautious around each other for some time after that. A necessity, I guess. I told her I won't hold it against her if she doesn't feel the same as I do.

So my first query is if you know where you stand WRT your country's sexual harassment laws, your company's fraternization policies, and so on.

If you approach her or talk about having feelings for her again, where does that leave you, especially if she decides that you are creating or will create a hostile work environment. Things you should know.


Lately, the relationship between us warmed up again. We started having coffee breaks together again, when the time allows. We chat normally. And I'd lie if I'd say I still don't feel for her. Other people have noticed this as well. And as they say, persistence pays off.

So... You went from doing things that were borderline inappropriate but OK because they were welcomed and wanted to being distant from one another and now you're interacting within the normal bounds of appropriate friendship between coworkers and people are starting to spread rumors about the two of you shtupping again as a result? :smallconfused:


One of our mutual friends arranged for the three of us to go do some beer tasting at the newly opened alehouse. Says he thinks we'd be good together and that we both need just a little push and that I just need not to give up.

What does he have planned, exactly, while playing matchmaker here? :smalleek:


And this is where I'm confused.

That she's acting like a friend or that she agreed to go drinking with you and a chaperone?


Because I get the feeling that she does like me and that just maybe we could be something more than just friends.

Why do you think that?


Maybe she just wants to see if I'm serious or I just wanted to crawl into her pants?

Unlikely, and, honestly, if this was all a test she's a bad egg and you want nothing to do with this woman.


So any advice from people who have more experience is welcome.

It's not so much advice as it is shouting "DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoCZ07hwoZ4)!" and waving my arms, sorry.


But I do want something more out of this and it'd be very sad if I missed on an opportunity of a lifetime because I got cold feet.

Well, all you can do is lay your cards on the table and then stop associating with her if associating with her starts to veer into unhealthy territory or threatens to.

And she already knows you were interested in her not that long ago, so there's only so many ways you could approach reminding her of your continued interest without being tiresome or harassing.