Would this anti caster team work at low levels?

[somethingrandom]

For a campaign I am planing on running I need a way of dealing with casters. This is supposed to be something the players try to avoid rather than defeat. the idea is to have a large group of people 20 at least surround the party at maxium longbow range (1100ft ) and have them all fire at the caster raining arrows down on him while non of them will be very accurate (most likely only hitting on a natural 20 auto hit the odds are able 1 hit per round more if they have rapid shot). Given an typical casters hp it wont take long to take one down.
4 questions
1) Do you think this would work at low levels?
2) If it is level dependent how high could things go before it stops working?
3) Is there a bettter way within the rules of dealing with this than rolling 20 attack rolls?
4) Can anyone give any suggestions given the following requirements for a better solution?

It must be something the players will want to avoid.
Noone on the team may have any magical ability
While recouses are unlikly to be an issue any magic items cannot be obvuoisly magical and the user will have no knowledge of there nature

[Zale]

It really depends on if the spellcaster is expecting it.

After all, Protection From Arrows (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromArrows.htm) is a second level spell. But with enough people, even a spellcaster who's expecting it may not be able to defend themselves if they're low enough in levels.

Around fifth or sixth level, they start getting things like Windwall or Fly, which make this tactic harder to pull off.

[Harmelyo]

1) Do you think this would work at low levels?
It really depends, once again, on who goes first/ perceive the other first and if the wizard expect this. And what you mean by work.

To answer this question, I will assume that you mean not only surviving the first shower of pointy thing but also make it out of the encounter alive.

Assumptions:
- You are in an open plain without any exceptional cover or lack of covers. I consider it a given due to the fact that you plan on shooting the wizard from your extreme range(1100ft).

- I will assume that the aggressors/archers are about the same level as the party.

- I will assume that you can't totally surround the adventurers as it will require an ability to move faster than them while being able to communicate close to flawlessly.

- As a level 1 wizard you can deal easily with a rain of arrows thrown from 1100ft if you go first. This is the only big assumption, yet from your small presentation I consider that player(s) are aware of the risk and a 20+ group is more likely to be spotted first than an expecting wizard.
This question is useless if you are talking about a specialist: diviner as he will more than likely go first even if you try to shot at him in the dark from a blind spot.

Forewarned (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/divination)kind of deal with surprise, on top of that any diviner worth its salt will have an Init bonus ranging from +6 to +13 without even trying and not even using its reroll (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-schools/paizo---arcane-schools/classic-arcane-schools/divination/foresight)...

Initiative:
- 2 (Dex)
- 2 (Traits: Reactive or one of the other many ones that give an initiative bonus)
- 4 (Improved Initiative)
- 4 (Familiar: scorpion or compsognathus)
- 1 (level 1 diviner)
-------------------------------------------------
-13 ( total modifier)


How to get out:

- First step: Dealing with the "rain":
Obscuring mist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/o/obscuring-mist) then 5 foot step should deal with the issue of getting shot.

First the aggressor will have to figure out where the wizard is, which not easy from 1100ft away in the fog... Their only solution from this point onward this translate to one out of 10 chance to hit the right square (yep sneaky wizard could even just stay on the same square) and then there is still the issue of the 50% miss chance... Lets say you will need about an army to pull that out properly.

- Second step: GTFO or the "heroic" retreat:
You are now cloaked from the archers by a mist which allow you as part of you move action to a stealth check. If you were smart you could even have done that as part of your 5ft move earler, but lets be wasteful, you do not command to the power of the universe and have to be stingy about your action economy (hint: YES you HAVE TO!!!). So now you remember that you can hide (as well as a bright light in a shadowy room but you can...). Lets assume that you does not roll to badly, lets assume a 2 or even a 1 if you do not enforce failure on a natural 1 (yes, I know you have about 90% chance of beating this roll but please humor me and my abysmal rolls).

As soon as you will leave the fog, you will have to pit your stealth roll against the perception check of the archers. As the archers are numerous and probably quite good at tracking we will assume the following result for the archer : 30.

- 1 (trait bonus and perception is now a class skill, because perception is THAT useful)
- 2 (wisdom. which is being mighty nice as no one in its right mind will come after a wizard with a simple bow!)
- 1 (rank in perception)
- 3 (perception is a class skill)
- 3 (skill focus: perception )
- 20 (roll is assumed maxed as there is enough archers so at least one of them roll 20)
----------------------------------------
- 30 on the perception check


In a regular situation as a wizard, you will have close to no chance of beating this as your stealth check amounted to about puny -1 (roll: +2, Dex: +2, moving at normal speed: -5). BUT there is a tiny, tiny bit of a modifier as your pursuers are a measly 1100ft away... yes Pathfinder does apply a modifier to the DC of the perception check for distance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/perception): +1DC/10feet which equals to a +110 to the DC.

So now your angry mob of archers/trackers have to beat at DC 109 perception check to see you leaving the scene. Lets just say that they won't see you leaving and by the time your obscuring mist dissipates, you have a serious head start.

By the time you are out of reach from your mob, you can even summon a mount (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/mount) and let them eat your dust. By the time your mount dissipates, you are 20 miles away (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/movement#Table-Movement-and-Distance).

If you let yourself surrounded, you can always use a combination of stealth to reach the side of the mist then cast at mid distance a Silent Image (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/silent-image) of yourself and your group making a run for the opposite direction (at enough details like crawling or crouching to make it believable that the illusion is spotted just now and not as soon as they left the fog). That should catch the attention of the archers and create a breach for you to escape.


NOTE: Getting out is harder if you have a complete group to move fast, but it is still do able, it will just cost you more spells slot. At worst, you will have a minute head start, after that you should be close to out of sight and you can start running away on foot. The mob will have to track your group and this won't be possible without going at half their normal speed...

- Third Step: profit ? Kidding... Result.
Getting out of this encounter cost you 2 to 3 spells (4 if one of those spell is from a banned school), which quite a lot at level one but not that much taking into account that this encounter was rating in difficulty around... suicidal (20+ against 1 is hard even by wizard's standards) and that your friends don't do anything and act only as luggages. This should net your resourceful wizard an hefty XP reward.



2) If it is level dependent how high could things go before it stops working?
- It is already not that efficient at level 1, let say that by level 3 it gets really hard as you can add other spells to make it even harder for the archers to figure out where to shoot. I am thinking of the "creative" use of thrown/drop/rolled stone with Darkness (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/darkness)cast on it or the straightforward use of invisibility (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/invisibility).


3) Is there a bettter way within the rules of dealing with this than rolling 20 attack rolls?
- You could use software to make the rolls (I know several other members do that, I don't).
- You could assume a 5% of the aggressor roll a natural 20 and then add/subtract a dX (depending on the size of the group). For 20 I would use 2d4: the first one is added then the second is substracted. The result is the number of aggressor arrow that hit the spot. For an example of 20 archers : (20 x 5%)+1d4 - 1d4 = 1 + 1d4 - 1d4 on average it should be 1 put it can go from 1 to 4 hits.
- You should have a look at the following message (http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/57470/how-do-you-handle-combat-in-pathfinder-when-there-are-too-many-foes-to-even-coun). This should give you a good idea of your other possibilities


4) Can anyone give any suggestions given the following requirements for a better solution?
It is really hard without using magic yourself to beat wizards from afar in one go. My ideas would be:
- to try to close the gap and use alchemical items such as thunderstone, tanglebag to cripple the wizard. At low level the combination of touch attack and DC are hard enough for the wizard to be hit consistently and afterward for him to fail the DC and concentration checks. The combination of those two items should shut him down hard before he even have the time to react in an efficient way. Bonus: you can take him alive and then burn him inquisition style.
- Make him waste its solution and force him to exhaust his spells. As I explained before, getting out of the situation cost you a non negligible amount of resources, force him to use spells to get out several time in a row. Instead of trying to shut him down all in one go, use two or three groups, by the time you reach the third encounter, your wizard should be out of solutions.
- Be sneaky, don't attack heads on, instead send a rogue or two to pickpocket the wizard spell pouch. He will find it, mighty hard to cast a spell without the components. If you can and want (I, myself, think of this as a **** move) target its spell-book.

[somethingrandom]

Thank you that sounds like a much better idea. Multiple teams of rogues with alchemical gear seams to be the way to go probably add in poison as well. Depending on where the caster is hit and run tactic may also help. If the players are couscous careful and smart this team may never be sent after them.

[Sewercop]

People tend to forget the spot modifiers to be able to even see the target at 1100 feet... I would start with that

[Harmelyo]

Sewercop, Have you read my (lengthy) answer? I do go in much details on how users should use that pesky little detail to their advantage

[Sacrieur]

Frankly I think you're approaching this all wrong.

You don't send a battalion of common foot soldiers after a wizard. Just like in real military tactics, you use what tool you need to get the job done. You don't send infantry to do a job that's black ops -- you use commandos, with builds/loadouts depending on the expected resistance.

In the case of an anti-caster force, you're going to want to build a four man team who specializes in neutralizing casters. All would be highly proficient combatants, with specialization in different things. You may have one guy who specializes in anti-summoning and another that's all about counter-spells, and another that's about containment. If I were building this team I'd have a swift melee combatant, such as a swift-blade or otherwise, who could rush in and subdue a wizard before he has a chance to strike. Second party member would be containment, specializing in preventing the wizard from escaping by dimensional anchor and have spells prepared to shut down anything the caster may do to try and escape. Third member would be a disabler, specializing in preventing the wizard from doing anything magically. Last would be the squad leader, a battlefield controller, who can assist wherever he's needed and direct them all appropriately.

In summary: contain, disable, subdue.

Your players will also react better to having four colorful characters showing up and wrecking their **** strategically than an army suddenly showing up on their doorstep and all doing the same thing. But thanks for making me think about this, I'm totally going to use it now.

[Madbranch]

You might want to try typical mongolian tactics against melee fighters. Basically bunch of mounted guys with composite bows. They encircled the opponent, and shot arrows at them.

So you encircle them. Shoot them and move slightly outwards, to make sure to stay out of charge range. Now with spells it'd be a problem when you've got long range spells, but mostly it should work nice.

................

Other than that you might want to consider is simple fighters (or some other close range class) with disruptive and spellbreaker feats.

...............

Now if you're searching for someone to kill wizards, and not to fight wizards in the open, just go for some sneaky sneaky spellcaster yourself. Let's say rogue/bard or sth similar.

[Harmelyo]

Madbranch, Sacrieur, the OP said no magic capacities for his team.

I think the OP want to represent a magic-phobic group trying to go all righteous on spellcasters, not some wizard black ops executing a dissident wizard.

[Spore]

I feel continuous damage is the key to interrupt casting while still give the players a chance to succeed. Mundane cont. damage would be bleeding, acid and burning the witch! But the reason and goal would be important. Because some well aimed poisoned arrows from the shadows are mostly sufficient.