Making a Giant Butterfly boss

[PseudoPanda]

So I have this concept for my current campaign where the Goddess of Nature enhanced certain creatures to protect some powerful artifacts. I have ideas for a viper and a monkey but one that I really want to incorporate and have been having trouble with is a super-powered giant butterfly. Now I have some ideas, mainly revolving around it being able to create great gales of wind with its wings but otherwise I'm drawing a blank. It will be pitted against a party of three level 13 characters and should at first seem like a joke but then put them through the ringer. Any suggestions?

[Ellowryn]

Titanic and Monster of Legend come to mind, both from MM2. Making it a proxy might be a little too much, but slapping Feral on could just be funny.

[Troacctid]

My instinct is to just use the stats for a roc, with some of the feats switched around.

[Bullet06320]

check out Rubik's signature monarch among dragons for some inspiration

[Psyren]

Pokemon may provice some ideas here - Butterfree being the obvious reference point, but you can look into similar mons like Venomoth as well.

Aside from the wind-based attacks you've already identified, these types of insects are also known for poisonous attacks, particularly in the forms of secretions or clouds of powder/spores. The poison can add a variety of effects to your battle - doing HP or ability damage, inducing conditions like stagger or nausea, sending spellcasters into a frenzy during which they can't concentrate, or even knocking PCs unconscious entirely. You could even combine these two to add more of a puzzle element to the encounter - having the butterfly create a very high-DC but small-radius AoE cloud of poisonous powder, but then enable it to move the cloud around with its wings. The melee would be forced to contend with moving around the clouds, the spellcasters would have to maintain line of sight, and the archers would have to contend with the wind.

Butterflies can also have shifting patterns or colorations on their wings - these could be used to induce a concealment or confusion effect in anyone staring at them during the fight.

I will however recommend for all of these fights that you don't simply have one big creature for the PCs to take on - due to the way the action economy works, these "one big bruiser" type fights are hard to make challenging and fun without flat-out overpowering the party and forcing a TPK. I would suggest instead that the big creature be accompanied by lieutenants or minions, and its own power be reduced to compensate, as the players will now have multiple other foes to contend with and won't be able to focus their fire. Your butterfly, for instance, could flap its wings at the start of the fight and cause swirls of wind to coalesce into angry air elementals, or it could be guarded by giant plant monsters covered with vibrant and beautiful flowers.

[PseudoPanda]

Titanic and Monster of Legend come to mind, both from MM2. Making it a proxy might be a little too much, but slapping Feral on could just be funny.

Thanks! Monster of Legend will be useful for this and the other monsters I'm creating. Titanic may be useful, now I need to figure out stats for the base creature.


My instinct is to just use the stats for a roc, with some of the feats switched around.

I was thinking that, perhaps a Roc with Monster of Legend added to it along with a few more abilities

[Thurbane]

Not technically a butterfly, but the Luna Moth (HoB) is a Large Magical Beast that can be advanced to Huge.

[DrMotives]

If this thing is set by a goddess, you might try looking at aspects for inspiration on powers. The aspects are in miniatures handbook, and more in the fiendish codex books. Or you could borrow the stats of a celestial, and tweak it a little bit.

[PseudoPanda]

I think I'm going to use the physical stats of a Roc but give it a bite (suck?) and two slams, apply the Monster of Legend template, give it an at-will Extraordinary Gust of Wind effect and have two Topiary Lions help it out (A mountaintop garden seem like an appropriate setting). Does this seem too easy? Too hard? MM2 says that Monster of Legend is a +2 CR but I'm not sure I trust it (permanent spell turning and haste is pretty good already but it gets even more)

[Username.]

Savage Species, a book with a deservedly poor reputation, does nonetheless give us the Insectile template, which is rather nifty here. It also gives us the Master of Flies prestige class, which can be reflavored for maximum butterfly. Further, the Warlock class has Sudden Swarm, an invocation that can make spiders swarm out of a fallen foe, but why not transform that body horror into surreal body horror with an application of maximum butterfly?

Others on this forum have ventured into weather spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?244182-PF-Weather-themed-arcane-spells). However, if one thinks that too physical, one could also give it charm effects and/or servants afflicted with charm effects (who doesn't love a pretty butterfly?). You could even have the buttefly drain its victims and apply vampire spawn templates to them, reflavored, of course, for maximum butterfly. Then said victims could inform the PCs, and anyone else around, how awesome they'll be once they, too, have gotten a high-octane, color-coordinated dose of maximum butterfly.

And why weather? Why not light? Color Spray/Prismatic Spray is a brilliant wash of rainbow that teaches its targets the error of opposing maximum butterfly, and, for a less harsh lesson, Rainbow Pattern.

Rainbows could be a persistent theme here. Rather than tasting the rainbow, those menanced by maximum butterfly might learn to fear it. Indeed, you could invoke that bit of candy marketing by having the servants of maximum butterfly hand out dangerous, possibly transformative, candies to their victims using Beguiling Gift (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/beguiling-gift) -- it's PF, but that shouldn't be an issue.

N.B.: If you keep saying maximum butterfly with the saliva-speckled fervor of a recent convert, the results will be far more intimidating than a tough roc.

That might be too much, though.

[Kraken]

The half-fey template (Fiend Folio) gives butterfly wings to a creature.

[radionausea]

Desna's herald The Night Monarch is a CR15 giant butterfly. Its in Rise of The Runelords (pathfinder AP).

[ShurikVch]

Dragon #322 have a Beacon Moth
It's a Huge Magical Beast with Daylight Aura, Dazzling Wings, bite attack, and Int 2

Advance it up to 16 HD, then slap on Kaiju template from Dragon #289
It will change size to Colossal, +40 HD, double it's Daylight Aura radius, give Trample attack, and multiple special attacks and qualities (Windstorm is a must; Control Weather too)

Give it Epic Destiny (Force of Nature) from Dragon #363; chose Boon of Storms and Boon of Life

[ExLibrisMortis]

To me, a butterfly says 'spellcaster'. I don't think there are any predatory butterflies, and they don't have jaws or claws, so melee combat is right out. For a spellcaster, being giant is also a drawback.

How about a tiny size, brightly coloured butterfly (which can still be 40 cm across, which is giant, for butterflies), with Control Winds, a Prismatic Spray breath weapon and some other (weaker) colour/wind themed abilities?

[radionausea]

I think I remember there being stats for Slakemoths in a dragon magazine. Nightmarish dream/mind eating horrors from Mieville's Perdido Street Station

[Studoku]

Dark Cloud 2 had a giant rainbow butterfly boss.

I don't know where I'm going with this so here's a video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Jl5AI29TY

[DrMotives]

There's also the gloomwing, a giant moth from the plane of shadows. They're the adult form of the tenebrous worm, which is actually a much more powerful creature than the adult. I know I've seen them in 3rd E, but I can't recall what book they're in.

[daremetoidareyo]

Certain butterflies raise their young on poisonous plants (milkweed, nettles, etc) so that the develop internal poison to sicken predators. Some insects concentrate the poison for excretion as an offensive ability. It would be cool to include large plants that are mildly medicinal, and then give your butterfly a type of poisonous blood.

[SimonMoon6]

A butterfly flapping its wings = chaos theory = chaos blast.

I think one of Moorcock's books had Elric fighting chaos butterflies.

[ShurikVch]

I think one of Moorcock's books had Elric fighting chaos butterflies. Chaos butterflies?.. :smallamused:
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120426083102/villains/images/thumb/c/cc/Discord_butterfly_E1S2_-W_0_0001.png/500px-Discord_butterfly_E1S2_-W_0_0001.png

[atemu1234]

Chaos butterflies?.. :smallamused:
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120426083102/villains/images/thumb/c/cc/Discord_butterfly_E1S2_-W_0_0001.png/500px-Discord_butterfly_E1S2_-W_0_0001.png

No. Just no.

[Thurbane]

Desna's herald The Night Monarch is a CR15 giant butterfly. Its in Rise of The Runelords (pathfinder AP).

Is there anywhere to (legally) obtain the 3.5 versions of the Paizo adventure paths? If so, I'd love to grab some.

[atemu1234]

Is there anywhere to (legally) obtain the 3.5 versions of the Paizo adventure paths? If so, I'd love to grab some.

If you have the originals, then conversion is fairly straightforward.

[Psyren]

Is there anywhere to (legally) obtain the 3.5 versions of the Paizo adventure paths? If so, I'd love to grab some.

It's pretty easy to convert the stuff if you want to backport. We can even post the stats since they are OGL - Night Monarch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/heralds/night-monarch)

Also, I don't know if this matches the RotR version, but these stats come from Inner Sea Gods, which is the most current source.

[Thurbane]

I know it's not hard to convert, but would prefer the 3.5 versions if possible.

[Psyren]

I know it's not hard to convert, but would prefer the 3.5 versions if possible.

I believe these (http://paizo.com/pathfinder/adventurePath/riseOfTheRunelords) are the 3.5/OGL versions. No idea which chapter the Monarch is in though.

The print versions are discontinued of course, but the PDFs should still be there.

[Crazysaneman]

If you're looking for fight inspiration go to youtube and look up the Dark Souls Moonlight Butterfly fights, pretty classic bridge-and-two-towers fight :)

[KillingAScarab]

Pokemon may provice some ideas here - Butterfree being the obvious reference point, but you can look into similar mons like Venomoth as well.It might be better to go straight to the source: Mothra (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mothra).


Mothra is generally portrayed as a giant insect that lives on a tropical island, where it is worshipped as a deity. It is a peaceful character that only fights to protect itself, its allies, or the Earth. It is usually accompanied by miniature twin fairies, who summon it into battle by singing a prayer.
...
Mothra has been portrayed as using a number of special abilities. It has been shown to have the ability to spray silk, metamorphose, fly, generate hurricane-force wind, scatter poison, drop wings and use various magical energy attacks.I would take that "drop wings" to mean it can perform a slam attack with a wing.


Butterflies can also have shifting patterns or colorations on their wings - these could be used to induce a concealment or confusion effect in anyone staring at them during the fight.Swirling colors sounds like rainbow pattern (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/rainbowPattern.htm), to me. Alternatively, you could treat it like color spray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/colorSpray.htm).

[Phelix-Mu]

I think we need a link to skysaber's thread about the kaiju robot bunny armies taking over the Abyss.

I mean, granted there isn't a direct link, but nothing says "look, how bad can this [insert harmless creature theme] get?" better than the direction that thread went in.

As a basic premise, the thing is probably slow and easy to hit. Compensate with natural scintillating scales ability (Nat. Armour bonus to touch AC), and summons. What would it summon? I would probably use...shimmerlings was it? There was a type of fairy that gave everyone it touched a buzz and moved about in swarms. Swap the buzz for fatigue or (if you want to be evil) daze, and swap the fey type for vermin and make it a moth/butterfly swarm.

Give it the Crown of Vermin epic spell as a unique, nonmagical ability, tone it down if necessary.

[captain fubar]

what you are asking for reminds me of one of the optional bosses in dark souls, perhaps this would be a good source of inspiration.
http://darksouls.wikia.com/wiki/Moonlight_Butterfly

mechanically I'm thinking something like warlock would be a good fit keeping out of reach through much of the fight flinging rays and maby some AOE around and having one or two other nifty tricks without being overly complex for a one shot monster not bright enough to have thought out contingency or long term plans and thus rather unlikely to make any repeat appearances.

[The Vagabond]

First thing that comes to mind is actually from Pathfinder, more specifically, Desnas herald: Night Monarch. (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Night%20Monarch) CR 15, so probably 17 in a 3.5 game unchanged. Minor alterations should permit it to work fairly easily as a more powerful monster.