Barbarian/Werebear Build Maxing Out Too Early (lvl. 8)

[Bjornulfr]

I am currently running a human Barbarian with natural lycanthropy in the form of werebearism (we actually transitioned PCs from Pathfinder when 5th ed came out) and obviously switching to 5th from Pathfinder, he got nerfed a little bit. The lycanthropy is kind of a homebrew concept by my DM in that at 10%> hp transformation occurs. It bestows a +2 to rage related stats (str/con) and regeneration of hp= 1/2 lvl/round. My concern is, that with the reduction in the number of feats available and the cap on stats at 20, I'm going to kind of top out early. My strength is already at 21 with the help of a Belt of Hill Giant Strength, Con is a little lower at 14, Dex 12, and Wis is 10, Int and Cha don't matter. Can you folks give me any advice on how to keep this build improving at upper levels? He's just a monster and I want to keep him going in that direction so he doesn't become marginalized as the party's casters and such keep getting more powerful.

[archaeo]

The lycanthropy is kind of a homebrew concept by my DM in that at 10%> hp transformation occurs. It bestows a +2 to rage related stats (str/con) and regeneration of hp= 1/2 lvl/round. My concern is, that with the reduction in the number of feats available and the cap on stats at 20, I'm going to kind of top out early.

So you only get to transform when you're at 1/10 HP? I mean, you do get a pretty substantial little stat boost and regeneration that is arguably better than the level 18 Champion Fighter's. But that's still pretty weak sauce.


Can you folks give me any advice on how to keep this build improving at upper levels? He's just a monster and I want to keep him going in that direction so he doesn't become marginalized as the party's casters and such keep getting more powerful.

Well, given that you've already gotten a giant belt, we can assume your DM is friendly with magic items. With a good selection of those, along with just being a Barbarian, you're going to be virtually impossible to kill and do some ridiculous damage even with nothing else. If you really need more, perhaps talk to your DM about bringing in some more of the suggested werebear template features from the MM as you level.

Assuming your DM keeps the pressure on with plenty of level-appropriate challenges, it seems unlikely that caster dominance will really keep you down. With a couple of feats and good play, your Barbarian will be a great tank and serious damage-dealer, as well as the hands-down champ when it comes to feats of strength and endurance. Play to your strengths, and you probably won't have too many problems.

[Bjornulfr]

So you only get to transform when you're at 1/10 HP? I mean, you do get a pretty substantial little stat boost and regeneration that is arguably better than the level 18 Champion Fighter's. But that's still pretty weak sauce...If you really need more, perhaps talk to your DM about bringing in some more of the suggested werebear template features from the MM as you level.

Any suggestions as to which features I should/could attempt to incorporate? Part of my back-story from the beginning has been a personal goal to find an enchanted object that would allow for control of the transformation but I think that maybe my DM has shelved that for late game to avoid OP issues.

I also had an idea for an enchanted greataxe that would stack kill counters while in rage and that later I could spend "x" for an at will transformation or bonus damage dice.

[Person_Man]

3.5/PF tended to focus accumulating a lot of fiddly bonuses, whereas 5E has a carefully balanced at-will damage curve. So I would suggest adding utility and/or Rest limited abilities, and not more "+X to Str/Con/damage/to-hit/hit points/etc" stuff.

[archaeo]

Any suggestions as to which features I should/could attempt to incorporate? Part of my back-story from the beginning has been a personal goal to find an enchanted object that would allow for control of the transformation but I think that maybe my DM has shelved that for late game to avoid OP issues.

Well, you could always splash in a little magic with Magic Initiate, perhaps grabbing some Cleric spells and flavoring them as some kind of weremagic. Martial Adept might be an interesting choice for a splash of battlefield control or healing, or you could work with your DM to find a wording of Grappler that gives you some nice options.

Naturally, feats that are good on any tanky build will be good here. It's hard to beat Sentinel and Mage Killer, and Lucky and Alert are good on basically every build.

Finally, you could always dip into another class, though I'm not sure what your Barbarian would want to dip into.

Honestly, there'll probably be another poster along with better optimization advice. If you're playing in a game where everyone's playing really hard and pushing the mechanics to their limit, you might need that kind of thing. But in most normal games, you're already well ahead of the curve, and you should focus on making decisions that feel right for the character over trying to get a perfect combatant.

[Submortimer]

So, this may not be the most NATURAL (Har har) of transitions, but what about making three of your levels Moon Druid? you get a few uses of wild shape per short rest, thematically you always turn into a bear, and it fits into the given mechanics of the game without being fiddly. Take Bear totem, and you're an unstoppable rage bear who can summon more bears!

This is actually the next character i'm planning on playing, I just wanted to throw the idea out there for you as well.

Edit: To be clear, I meant take levels of moon druid instead of actually having lycanthropy.

[HoarsHalberd]

Max out con, str and get dex as high as possible. I'd also recommend polearm mastery. (The rage bonus makes this feat a -huge- bonus to barbarians.) I know dex doesn't seem important but unarmoured defence is very good with at least a +3 modifier in dex. Con is obviously a huge buff. +1 AC and hitpoint per level is huge and you need to max it out. I'd also forego armour. You also seem to have very low stats. Were they rolled?

[archaeo]

I'd also recommend polearm mastery. (The rage bonus makes this feat a -huge- bonus to barbarians.)

Oops, forgot to mention Polearm Master. For some reason, I just don't think "polearm" and "Barbarian" mix, but that's a nonsense stereotype based on nothing. It's a pretty rad combo in reality.


You also seem to have very low stats. Were they rolled?

This seems pretty likely.

[MustacheFart]

I'm just surprised you found a dm who allowed you to go wear ear on a melee character!

In my experience, despite the fact that even in this edition casters eventually overshadow noncasters, I've had more issues with DMs being resistant on noncasters. It's one of those things that make little sense to me, annoys the crap out of me and finally just makes me laugh out of frustration.

[Ralanr]

It may be my lack of sleep, but when I first read the topic title I thought it said "Wereboar"

I'd try and get your Con up to 16-17 at least. Better health and if you decide to beef up your dex you won't have to bother wearing armor. Do you get natural armor bonus when going werebear?

[HoarsHalberd]

Oops, forgot to mention Polearm Master. For some reason, I just don't think "polearm" and "Barbarian" mix, but that's a nonsense stereotype based on nothing. It's a pretty rad combo in reality.


It's true, they don't really mix at all. I'd personally refluff the glaive into a pollaxe. But halberds and polearms are weapons best used by traditional organised troops, but the guy asked for optimised.

[Ralanr]

Wouldn't a greataxe plus savage attacker have good synergy?

[HoarsHalberd]

Wouldn't a greataxe plus savage attacker have good synergy?

Savage attacker, not really. Greatswords benefit more from the rerolls as they get more 1s. 0.6ish damage boost per attack vs 0.4ish. If you meant the brutal critical (basically upgraded savage attacks from the orc racial ability.) Yes, there is great synergy, but it isn't as much of a power boost as the bonus attack from polearm mastery.

2*(6.5+5+6+0.05*(4(6.5)))=37.6

vs
2*(5.5)+5+6+0.05*(4(4.5))+(2.5+5+6+0.05(4(2.5))=49 .2

[Ralanr]

Savage attacker, not really. Greatswords benefit more from the rerolls as they get more 1s. 0.6ish damage boost per attack vs 0.4ish. If you meant the brutal critical (basically upgraded savage attacks from the orc racial ability.) Yes, there is great synergy, but it isn't as much of a power boost as the bonus attack from polearm mastery.

2*(6.5+5+6+0.05*(4(6.5)))=37.6

vs
2*(5.5)+5+6+0.05*(4(4.5))+(2.5+5+6+0.05(4(2.5))=49 .2


What about combining it with great weapon master and the fact that barbarians don't get fighting styles. Also reckless attack, which may or may not be used depending on the situation, health, and AC.

I'm actually considering this combo for my own barbarian.

[HoarsHalberd]

What about combining it with great weapon master and the fact that barbarians don't get fighting styles. Also reckless attack, which may or may not be used depending on the situation, health, and AC.

I'm actually considering this combo for my own barbarian.

God you are lucky I love maths.

GWM for polearm mastery seems a fair trade, I'll leave -5 +10 out as it is far, far too situational and will result in a damage loss against most foes for classes with damage boosts like rage.
Assuming reckless

2.1719((6.5+5+6+0.09*(4(6.5)))=43.09

Giving reckless to PM will obviously give a small increase to PM but as it is still ahead there's no point doing the maths.

[Ralanr]

God you are lucky I love maths.

GWM for polearm mastery seems a fair trade, I'll leave -5 +10 out as it is far, far too situational and will result in a damage loss against most foes for classes with damage boosts like rage.
Assuming reckless

2.1719((6.5+5+6+0.09*(4(6.5)))=43.09

Giving reckless to PM will obviously give a small increase to PM but as it is still ahead there's no point doing the maths.

Seems good enough. It's not like one needs to be fully optimized in this edition.

[HoarsHalberd]

Seems good enough. It's not like one needs to be fully optimized in this edition.

Yup, good for you, but the guy wants to optimise himself to keep up with casters so best possible build. The PM also has reach and is pretty much guaranteed one OA an encounter minimum. And at level 20, the damage gap grows by 2 if you max str to get to 24 STR.

[Ralanr]

Yup, good for you, but the guy wants to optimise himself to keep up with casters so best possible build. The PM also has reach and is pretty much guaranteed one OA an encounter minimum. And at level 20, the damage gap grows by 2 if you max str to get to 24 STR.

This is fair. Plus this means anyone coming to hit him after he reckless attacks (not sure if he will) he'll get a guaranteed rage keeper with the aoo (phone). If he gets sentinel he can even stop one from reaching him.

[HoarsHalberd]

This is fair. Plus this means anyone coming to hit him after he reckless attacks (not sure if he will) he'll get a guaranteed rage keeper with the aoo (phone). If he gets sentinel he can even stop one from reaching him.

Yup, it's a strong build.

Btw, add: 0.686385 to the build if you're using a half-orc.

[Ralanr]

Yup, it's a strong build.

Btw, add: 0.686385 to the build if you're using a half-orc.

Dragonborn. Worked out pretty well so far. Half-Orcs make better barbs, but dragonborn are good enough and I enjoy them.

[HoarsHalberd]

Dragonborn. Worked out pretty well so far. Half-Orcs make better barbs, but dragonborn are good enough and I enjoy them.

Dragonborn is good enough. Has an advantage in horde combats. (If you run Rise of Tiamat, do your best to get a *bleeping* dragon mask. At least one dragonbreath per encounter, average of two in encounters 6 rounds or longer. And tonnes of other benefits.)

[Ralanr]

Dragonborn is good enough. Has an advantage in horde combats. (If you run Rise of Tiamat, do your best to get a *bleeping* dragon mask. At least one dragonbreath per encounter, average of two in encounters 6 rounds or longer. And tonnes of other benefits.)

My group's doing a homebrew campaign. So sadly it's unlikely I'll get one of those. Though something has bugged me with those dragon masks.

I know that as a dragonborn I couldn't gain the "Get life back equal to elemental damage" ability. But let's say I picked up a mask of a different color than me (I'm white dragonborn, so let's say black). While not raging I'd have that energy resistance (woohoo your acid doesn't burn...that much...ow...) But since I'm a bear totem rager, once I rage, would I get immunity to that element type? (I can bath in your acid!)

[JNAProductions]

You should. Resistance from Bear Totem, rising to Immunity with the Dragon Mask.

[HoarsHalberd]

My group's doing a homebrew campaign. So sadly it's unlikely I'll get one of those. Though something has bugged me with those dragon masks.

I know that as a dragonborn I couldn't gain the "Get life back equal to elemental damage" ability. But let's say I picked up a mask of a different color than me (I'm white dragonborn, so let's say black). While not raging I'd have that energy resistance (woohoo your acid doesn't burn...that much...ow...) But since I'm a bear totem rager, once I rage, would I get immunity to that element type? (I can bath in your acid!)

I'd go red in an ideal world, btw this is off topic so no more stuff like this afterwards. But if I were DM I'd say yes, but as it's not clear, I'd just ask your DM. Only way you can.