Metamagic questions

[Pippin]

Hey playground,

1. About the residual magic feat, is it possible to use it the round after having cast a spell metamagic'd by a rod ? or metamagic'd by instant metamagic (Incantatrix features) ?

2. I can't use a metamagic rod and a wand together right? For example, can I quicken a spell cast by a wand ?

Thank you!

[Grooke]

1) I see no reason why you couldn't. As said by OP in post 9 "Only spells you cast using your own metamagic feats (as opposed to metamagic effects from magic items) allow this option to function. "

2) By default no. With the Metamagic Spell Trigger feat (or class feature since you're going Incantatrix), I'd say you could. nvm, re-read both and the explicitly says "metamagic feat you know", Incantatrix says "metamagic feat you possess". Metamagic rods explicitly say you don't get the feat. Since there requirements to get metamagic on wands, I'd say you can't (though you might ask for a custom feat that needs Metamagic Spell Trigger as a requirement).

I would say though, that the wording that stops the second point seems to favor the first. Residual says "a metamagic effet" which wouldn't require you to know it.

[SangoProduction]

Well, even if you had the metamagic within the wand itself (which you should be able to do), quicken doesn't help, as wands are always at least 1 standard action to use (but can be longer if the spell takes longer). http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Wands
Just to make it clear.

[Grooke]

Oh yeah, for Quicken its useless. Again, there are explicit ways to get around the standrad action casting (Prophecy's Artifex feat, Magic of Eberon) but metamagic isn't one.

[darksolitaire]

Well, even if you had the metamagic within the wand itself (which you should be able to do), quicken doesn't help, as wands are always at least 1 standard action to use (but can be longer if the spell takes longer). http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Wands
Just to make it clear.

Why would you link to dandwiki instead of d20srd? :smallyuk:

[Allanimal]

Well, even if you had the metamagic within the wand itself (which you should be able to do), quicken doesn't help, as wands are always at least 1 standard action to use (but can be longer if the spell takes longer).

Not anymore (if you accept the rules compendium at your table)


Activating a spell trigger item takes the same amount of time as the casting time of the spell that the item stores

[Pippin]

I'm going to rephrase 2, just making sure.

2. I have a metamagic rod, quicken and a wand of true casting (infinite charges). Can I use both items and cast true casting as a swift action?

3. I have a metamagic rod, quicken and a metamagic rod, maximize. If I cast orb of acid, can I use both rods and have it both quickened and maximized?

4. I'm a Lv10 Incantatrix. Can I create a wand of quickened true casting, reducing the actual level of the spell from 5 to 4 with improved metamagic?

[Grooke]

2. No, using metamagic on wands requires a feat/class feature in the base case, and these do not allow metamagic rods.

3. No "A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any given spell" (SRD on Rods)

4. Not familiar enough with wand creation to answer.

Edit: for (2), if you actually could if you have the metamagic rod AND have Metamagic Spell Trigger feat or class features AND have the actual feat.

[Pippin]

I wake up this morning and realize residual magic actually reads:


Only spells you cast using your own metamagic feats (as opposed to metamagic effects from magic items) allow this option to function.

so I should not be able to use the feat right after I used a metamagic rod. This just ruined my day.

[Pippin]

Bump.

5. Does residual magic work with the metamagic-like abilities (1st, 3rd and 5th level) of the Recaster PrC ? (See here (http://dndtools.pw/classes/recaster/) and there (http://dndtools.pw/feats/complete-mage--58/residual-magic--2434/))

[Grooke]

I wake up this morning and realize residual magic actually reads:

Only spells you cast using your own metamagic feats (as opposed to metamagic effects from magic items) allow this option to function.

so I should not be able to use the feat right after I used a metamagic rod. This just ruined my day.


Emphasis on "Metamagic feats".

[Pippin]

Emphasis on "Metamagic feats".
So it only works with the "Sudden Metamagic" features at Lv2/4. Is that what you're saying?

[Grooke]

Yeah the sudden ones would work (I mean, you'd really have to be nitpicking to say that applying the benefit of the feat =/= the feat) but the others won't.

[Pippin]

Yeah the sudden ones would work (I mean, you'd really have to be nitpicking to say that applying the benefit of the feat =/= the feat) but the others won't.
Okay thanks Grooke for confirming my fears.

(I really don't know why residual magic was colored purple over there (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9876.0)...)

[Grooke]

Picture this:

A Shadowcraft mage uses Heighten with Earth spell to turn a Silent image from a lvl 1 to lvl 9 (lvl 10 with Earth Spell) which can then copy any Conjuration [creation/summoning] or Evocation spell. Next round, he re-casts Silent Image from a level 1 slot, re-applies Heighten for free and bam, lvl 9 spell from lvl 1 slot (add in gnome illusionist substitution level and its a cantrip).


I think SCMs are the ones who could exploit it the most though. The feat is amazing, but not for everyone. A persist Incantrix might not get that much from it since you usually cast each buff once.