Monster Grab special ability

[jjcrpntr]

In the game I'm dming one of my players made it a point that you can't grapple during an AaO and that's fine. But if a monster has a claw attack with the grab ability and hits with his claw during an AaO does it get to utilize the grab?

I wasn't entirely sure, and was pressed for time and didn't want to deal with it right then, so I went with normal grappling rules (so the monster didn't grab the pc) but it seems to me that the creature should have had the chance to grab the PC.

[Necromancy]

Yep, can grab on any successful hit with the "weapon" that has grab

[Baroknik]

I may be mistaken, but I'm fairly certain you can grapple on an AoO, since you are allowed to make a grapple check any time that you could make a melee attack roll.

[Crake]

I may be mistaken, but I'm fairly certain you can grapple on an AoO, since you are allowed to make a grapple check any time that you could make a melee attack roll.

I was also under the impression that this was the case

[Khedrac]

The reason why most characters cannot grapple with an AoO is that you can only take an AoO with an attack that threatens - and without Improved Unarmed Strike or a weapon that grants grapple then most characters won't threaten with their grapple.

[Necromancy]

I may be mistaken, but I'm fairly certain you can grapple on an AoO, since you are allowed to make a grapple check any time that you could make a melee attack roll.

Grapple is a standard action. You're thinking of grab

[Crake]

The reason why most characters cannot grapple with an AoO is that you can only take an AoO with an attack that threatens - and without Improved Unarmed Strike or a weapon that grants grapple then most characters won't threaten with their grapple.

I don't see anywhere in the rules that say your attack of opportunity must be made with a weapon that threatens. As far as I see, if you have a longsword in one hand, and your other hand is free to make an unarmed strike, you can threaten with the longsword, but still attack with the unarmed strike to grapple. You, of course, still provoke as normal, but that's it's own thing.


Grapple is a standard action. You're thinking of grab

Grapple is an attack option, you can use your attack of opportunity to perform an unarmed melee touch attack against the one who provoked you to grapple someone.

[Necromancy]

Grapple is an attack option, you can use your attack of opportunity to perform an unarmed melee touch attack against the one who provoked you to grapple someone.

No, grapple requires "attack action" not option

[Psyren]

I may be mistaken, but I'm fairly certain you can grapple on an AoO, since you are allowed to make a grapple check any time that you could make a melee attack roll.


I was also under the impression that this was the case

This is the case in 3.5 - not PF. To grapple as part of an attack in PF you need the Grab ability.

It's not clear which system the OP is using however.

[Necromancy]

You guys are trying to say initiating a grapple is a free action 100% of the time.

[jjcrpntr]

This is the case in 3.5 - not PF. To grapple as part of an attack in PF you need the Grab ability.

It's not clear which system the OP is using however.

Pathfinder sorry. Thanks guys

[Necromancy]

Well that's simple then.
Roll hit and if it hits, compare the roll vs CMD and grab if that hits. PF grapple is much clearer

[Baroknik]

You guys are trying to say initiating a grapple is a free action 100% of the time.

I don't think anyone is saying that. The rules text states that grapple attempts may be taken in place of a melee attack, specifically...


]To start a grapple, you need to grab and hold your target. Starting a grapple requires a successful melee attack roll. If you get multiple attacks, you can attempt to start a grapple multiple times (at successively lower base attack bonuses).

[KillianHawkeye]

You guys are trying to say initiating a grapple is a free action 100% of the time.

Literally NOBODY said that. :smallannoyed:

[Necromancy]

Literally NOBODY said that. :smallannoyed:

Actually ....


Improved Grab (Ex)

If a creature with this special attack hits with a melee weapon (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. No initial touch attack is required.

But according to you guys, everybody has this ability and it has no reason to exist

[Grooke]

I'm pretty sure "you are allowed to make a grapple check any time that you could make a melee attack roll." was meant as "instead of the attack" so no, they didn't mean it was free. The grab ability allows you to grapple after landing the attack and dealing damage.

[Baroknik]

Actually ....



But according to you guys, everybody has this ability and it has no reason to exist

I think you misunderstand... We are saying you can replace an attack with a grapple attempt. Improved Grab lets you initiate a grapple from an attack.

Without Improved Grab you can replace an attack with a grapple attempt. With IG you can make a normal attack, and if it hits it deals damage and acts as the initial hit in a grapple.

[Psyren]

Guys, all of this is moot since the OP is playing Pathfinder, so we know which set of grapple rules he's using now.

So again, being able to replace your attacks with grapple checks was a 3.5 thing. In PF it's a standard action, unless you have Grab, or a handful of other techniques like the Maneuver Master Monk's ability to throw a grapple check or two into a flurry. Therefore the OP's question should be answered now.

[KillianHawkeye]

But according to you guys, everybody has this ability and it has no reason to exist

I'm sorry that's what it sounded like to you, but that's still not what anybody said. Grappling, like tripping, disarming and sundering, can be done in place of any melee attack (even an Attack of Opportunity), although apparently only in D&D and not Pathfinder.