Requesting help on Monk Build

[5w337x7007h]

I've come up with an idea to build a monk who fights like Son Wukong, or Jackie Chan. His race will be Vanara, and his weapon of choice, the quarterstaff. The character has to be lawful, but I hope I can get my DM to give me some leeway in alignment choice.

So far, I'm thinking Drunken Master due to the nature of the Monkey King. A martial artist with a weakness for drinking, women, and a goodhearted prankster. I don't want to min-max, just functional and survivable.

I've been looking through recommendations and builds and so far my ideas on the stats are as such.
After racial modifiers (+2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha)

STR 16, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 7, Wis 16, Cha 7.

First feat would be Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff), and I want to get Quarterstaff Master, outside that I'm having trouble figuring out where to go with this.

Is there some feat that lets me apply my unarmed strike damage through my weapon, instead of it's original damage?

[Karl Aegis]

Jackie Chan played the drunken master and Jet Li played Sun Wukong in the movie, though. You can't be both.

[Arutema]

How patient are you? Pathfinder Unchained will be out later this month and is said to include a much-improved version of the Monk.

[5w337x7007h]

The original Sun Wukong was a trickster and a powerful fighter. I would not put it past his reputation to drink while fighting, though I don't know if he actually would. As far I can tell, he doesn't see fighting as conflict, but entertainment.

I'd like to stat up a character that shares a kindred personality to his. That said, would Drunken Master be worth it, or should I stick with the base Monk.

[5w337x7007h]

How patient are you? Pathfinder Unchained will be out later this month and is said to include a much-improved version of the Monk.

For the current time, it's not a matter of patience, as it is, "Will my current character survive the next session?". I'm in about 3 different campaigns and I always keep a backup, but my brain loves trying to create a character when I see an idea for one. Sadly tactics aren't a group strong-point. They tend to do what they want, when they want. And a majority of the deaths are generally environmental.

Back to the point of the day; Where should I go with this? I'm thinking spend two feats to improve my quarterstaff usage, and round out the other feats with iron will, toughness, improved init, etc. Improve overall survivability while using the granted monk feats to improve combat effectiveness.

Does this seem like a viable option?

[Geddy2112]

I've come up with an idea to build a monk who fights like Son Wukong, or Jackie Chan. His race will be Vanara, and his weapon of choice, the quarterstaff. The character has to be lawful, but I hope I can get my DM to give me some leeway in alignment choice.

So far, I'm thinking Drunken Master due to the nature of the Monkey King. A martial artist with a weakness for drinking, women, and a goodhearted prankster. I don't want to min-max, just functional and survivable.

I've been looking through recommendations and builds and so far my ideas on the stats are as such.
After racial modifiers (+2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha)

STR 16, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 7, Wis 16, Cha 7.

First feat would be Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff), and I want to get Quarterstaff Master, outside that I'm having trouble figuring out where to go with this.

Is there some feat that lets me apply my unarmed strike damage through my weapon, instead of it's original damage?

Lawful monks can still be drunks,love women and pull an occasional practical joke, it depends on your particular order. Vanaran is a really good choice for monk if you want to do some climbing nonsense, and the tail is really useful. Tree stranger unlocks every knowledge as a class skill which is handy if you don't have a bard or wizard in the party, even with dumping intelligence. I would take your wis to 18 and leave your dex at 16, you get AC from your wisdom that can't be taken away if your flat footed, so you are really just losing a point from initiative and dex based skills.

Drunken master archtype does not provide a lot, and requires you to drink frequently to have temporary Ki. I would go with weapon adapt archtype if you want to fight with a quarterstaff-it gives you perfect strike, weapon focus and weapon specialization for free, your character can still drink but it will just be for flavor.(carry a jug of booze on the end of your quarterstaff) You don't need quarterstaff master- a monk is never unarmed and can use feet, knees and elbows so unless you are going to take deflect/snatch arrows as bonus feats I don't see a point to using it one handed.

With a high wisdom, good base will save and still mind, I doubt you need iron will unless your insanely paranoid about failing a will save.

[5w337x7007h]

I examined the Weapon Adept archetype. It looks great for working with a quarterstaff, though I'm kinda upset I've lost Stunning Fist and Improved Evasion. I'm thinking about the vital strike chain instead now, too.

There's also Improved Trip, Grapple, and a couple others.

[5w337x7007h]

Knowing the Quarterstaff is a good option, would a Monk's Spade be more flexible, considering it carries the three base damage types?

[Geddy2112]

I examined the Weapon Adept archetype. It looks great for working with a quarterstaff, though I'm kinda upset I've lost Stunning Fist and Improved Evasion. I'm thinking about the vital strike chain instead now, too.



Knowing the Quarterstaff is a good option, would a Monk's Spade be more flexible, considering it carries the three base damage types?

Why do you need stunning fist if your going to be using a weapon most/all of the time? Eventually your fists will do more damage than your weapon though... Losing improved evasion is kinda bad, but with normal evasion and decent saves you should be OK. Reflex saves carry the least consequences when you fail them anyways. Vital strike only lets you make a single attack; you are going to deal more damage by flurrying with your weapon or even your hands.

Monk's spade is a great idea, and you can still use it like a quarterstaff fighter.

[5w337x7007h]

Well I'm not sure if I'm going to use Stunning Fist, but if I do, the abilities it provides stack well with things like Medusa's Wrath, which lets me get extra hits off because of certain conditions it can bestow.

I think I may stick with the core monk, and get Stunning fist, then pick up Perfect Strike at 11th level. But here's a question about those two feats.

Would I benefit from the special text, if I were to take said feat as my 11th level feat choice? Would I be able to use Perfect Strike, or Stunning fist, a number of times per day equal to my monk level?

[Psyren]

Yes, any monk who picks up Perfect Strike gets the additional uses. Weapon Master Adept and Zen Archer simply get it for free without needing the prereqs.

[5w337x7007h]

So what would be the better option? Going Weapon Adept, and picking up Stunning Fist, or going Core and picking up Perfect Strike. Both feats have the exact same requirements.

The only real difference, if I went for the archetype, would be that I lose out on Improved Evasion, Timeless Body, and Perfect Self, but I gain weapon focus, weapon specialization, and the ability, at 17th level, to decide what my initiative is.

[5w337x7007h]

I almost forgot about the feats and their variance from the archetype and the core. With Perfect Strike, at 10th level, the monk can roll his attack roll three times and take the higher result. If one of these rolls is a critical threat, he can choose which one of his other two rolls to use as his confirmation roll.

With Stunning Fist, however, at 10th level, I can stun, fatigue, or sicken an enemy.

[Psyren]

You also delay normal evasion a whopping 7 levels. I don't think it's worth it.

Really the only thing even semi-worthwhile that Weapon Adept gets you is Weapon Specialization without fighter levels - but since you plan on using a staff, you can get that anyway. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/quarterstaff-master-combat) Weapon Adept therefore has nothing to offer until 17th level and is just overall bad. I recommend you go with a different archetype instead. (You can't go wrong with Qinggong.)

Kata Master seems like an interesting choice - and if I'm reading it right, you can get Dex to hit (and possibly to damage) with your quarterstaff that way.

[5w337x7007h]

I might end up sticking with the core build and going up with unarmed strikes and monkey/dragon style build, topping it off with Medusa's Wrath. Multiple hits means big damage.

[Psyren]

Why do you want Monkey Style? It doesn't have a whole lot to offer, either on its own or in combination with Dragon Style.

A better combo with Dragon Style is Pummeling Style - the two have excellent synergy and will make your monk quite powerful.

[5w337x7007h]

Why do you want Monkey Style? It doesn't have a whole lot to offer, either on its own or in combination with Dragon Style.

A better combo with Dragon Style is Pummeling Style - the two have excellent synergy and will make your monk quite powerful.

I meant the feat chain, when I was referring to the style. I do realize that Dragon Style helps with ignoring difficulties while charging, running, or withdraw. I'm still looking at all of the styles, though I saw monkey and thought it flavorful.

How does Pummeling Style work, though? Is it a Clustered Shots Feat for unarmed strikes?

[Secret Wizard]

1. Yes, but better since pummeling style makes any critical threat count as a critical threat for EVERY hit.

2. It's even better because you have pummeling charge up next, to allow you to pounce over the battlefield freely.

3. Consider a Brawler for the Jackie Chan build.

[5w337x7007h]

1. Yes, but better since pummeling style makes any critical threat count as a critical threat for EVERY hit.

2. It's even better because you have pummeling charge up next, to allow you to pounce over the battlefield freely.

3. Consider a Brawler for the Jackie Chan build.

And with Dragon Style, I can do a guaranteed full charge as long as I can draw a line from myself to the enemy, ignoring allies and difficult terrain, and don't go around corners.

[Psyren]

And with Dragon Style, I can do a guaranteed full charge as long as I can draw a line from myself to the enemy, ignoring allies and difficult terrain, and don't go around corners.

Correct. Note however that you will either need MoMS or Combat Style Master to be able to go Dragon Style -> Charge -> Pummeling Style -> "flurry."

[5w337x7007h]

I just noticed a problem with how Pummeling charge is worded. RAW states When using Pummeling Style, you can charge and make a Pummeling Style attack at the end of your charge as part of the charge action. I imagine this means I have to start and finish the charge in pummeling style, to get the desired result.

[Psyren]

I just noticed a problem with how Pummeling charge is worded. RAW states When using Pummeling Style, you can charge and make a Pummeling Style attack at the end of your charge as part of the charge action. I imagine this means I have to start and finish the charge in pummeling style, to get the desired result.

Right, which is why you either need both styles active simultaneously (MoMS) or the ability to switch as a free action (CSM) to do this. Because you can explicitly perform free actions during other actions (see rules quote below) you can switch stances without interrupting your charge, with CSM.


Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.

[5w337x7007h]

Alright, so I'll take the feats as they become available.

3rd Dragon Style, 5th Pummeling Style, 7th Combat Style Master, 9th Pummeling Charge.

This is a sound assumption for feats, correct? Also, could I potentially use Pummeling Strike as a sunder attempt, or as an attack against an object?

[5w337x7007h]

Besides Dragon Style and Pummeling Style, what other styles are good?

[Necromancy]

Gangnam Style?

[Secret Wizard]

All other styles are niche. The Elemental Fist styles, the maneuver styles, the defensive styles... you want to build around those, rather than tack it onto a build meant for damage.

An interesting Master of Many Styles build could be combining Circling Mongoose feat with Panther Style (for a million retaliation hits) and Snake Style or Crane Style to deflect hits.

[Psyren]

Alright, so I'll take the feats as they become available.

3rd Dragon Style, 5th Pummeling Style, 7th Combat Style Master, 9th Pummeling Charge.

This is a sound assumption for feats, correct?

What are you taking at 1st level? Pummeling Style can be picked up then even without archetypes, no need to wait until 5th.


Also, could I potentially use Pummeling Strike as a sunder attempt, or as an attack against an object?

Yes - Sunder can be performed on any melee attack, it does not require a separate action.


Besides Dragon Style and Pummeling Style, what other styles are good?

Depends on the vision you have for the character and what you want to be able to do. I like ending my turns in Snake Style personally, plus you get piercing punches.

[atemu1234]

I've come up with an idea to build a monk who fights like Son Wukong, or Jackie Chan. His race will be Vanara, and his weapon of choice, the quarterstaff. The character has to be lawful, but I hope I can get my DM to give me some leeway in alignment choice.

So far, I'm thinking Drunken Master due to the nature of the Monkey King. A martial artist with a weakness for drinking, women, and a goodhearted prankster. I don't want to min-max, just functional and survivable.

I've been looking through recommendations and builds and so far my ideas on the stats are as such.
After racial modifiers (+2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha)

STR 16, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 7, Wis 16, Cha 7.

First feat would be Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff), and I want to get Quarterstaff Master, outside that I'm having trouble figuring out where to go with this.

Is there some feat that lets me apply my unarmed strike damage through my weapon, instead of it's original damage?

Is it bad that I would suggest finding some way to get into drunken master from Unarmed Swordsage, instead of going actual monk?

[Psyren]

Is it bad that I would suggest finding some way to get into drunken master from Unarmed Swordsage, instead of going actual monk?

He's playing Pathfinder, there is no Swordsage.

[atemu1234]

He's playing Pathfinder, there is no Swordsage.

I need to fix my browser. It never loads these tags.

Sorry.

[charcoalninja]

Master of Many Styles is amazing to allow you to grab Snake Fang at level 2 making your enemies provoke opportunity attacks when they miss you. As long as you keep your AC high that nets a slew of really impressive AOOs that combined with Stunning Fist would allow you to shut down enemy full attacks by counter attacking with a stun after their first attack against you.

So I'm a big fang of Snake Style for that reason. Sadly MoMS gives up Flurry, but if you were thinking of going the VS route anyway...

[5w337x7007h]

If I give up Flurry of Blows, I can't use pummeling style, the entire effect would be watered down to a basic full attack action which could be anywhere from half or less than what Flurry of Blows provides.

I don't want to completely break this character, so with that said, I'd like to pull off shenanigans and have fun with it.

I'm starting at lvl 3, and my stats were rolled 4d6 drop lowest, reroll 1s. After applying adjustments here are the current stats.

Str 16, Dex 17, Con, 15, Int 15, Wis 20, Cha 9.

I'm putting my favored class bonus into health, unless putting it into Acrobatics or skill ranks would be preferable.

Since my stats are different than I anticipated, this is a big boon. I could snag Combat Expertise as my first level feat, to aid in reposition, dirty trick, trip, and a couple other things that allow for combat shenanigans.

[Psyren]

I'm putting my favored class bonus into health, unless putting it into Acrobatics or skill ranks would be preferable.

I'd go with the HP personally, especially with Int that high. You should be able to pick up all the skills you want.


Since my stats are different than I anticipated, this is a big boon. I could snag Combat Expertise as my first level feat, to aid in reposition, dirty trick, trip, and a couple other things that allow for combat shenanigans.

My advice is to pick one, or at most two combat maneuvers you like and stick with those. Even Brawlers can have trouble getting all the feats to make more than that good. But yeah, CE at 1st-level can be useful since this is a level when fighting defensively can make a big difference e.g. if you're surrounded or under fire from ranged.

[5w337x7007h]

How about Maneuver Master, utilizing Dirty Trick and Trip. Feats would be Vicious Stomp,Improved & Greater Trip, Improved & Greater Dirty Trick, and Dirty Trick Master?

[Secret Wizard]

It works. I like combining it with Monk of the Four Winds -- you can slow time and then use your three standard actions to deliver SIX combat maneuvers at full BAB on one round thanks to the ability of Maneuver Master to deliver 2 maneuvers as a standard action.

[Psyren]

How about Maneuver Master, utilizing Dirty Trick and Trip. Feats would be Vicious Stomp,Improved & Greater Trip, Improved & Greater Dirty Trick, and Dirty Trick Master?

Personally I'd say that's a waste. You can already combine full-attack and trips, so MM gives you nothing there; and with Quick Dirty Trick you don't need Maneuver Master to attack and dirty trick at the same time either. So you're giving up flurry (and with it, earlier access to Pummeling Style, plus the greater number of attacks and damage that goes with it) for benefits you can get or approximate elsewhere.

[5w337x7007h]

Quick question about Flurry of Blows/Maneuvers. It says as a full-round action, I can make an additional attack/maneuver, though all suffer a -2 penalty. Does this mean that I could move and use a flurry of blows/maneuvers, and, say at lvl 3, get a +1/+1 attacks/maneuvers, or I could make a full-round action and make three attacks/maneuvers at -1/-1/-1?

Also, With the MM idea, I'd get to disable and trip an opponent, nail them with greater trip, and nail them again with vicious stomp. As they stand up I could nail them a third time. The idea is to effectively use my available feats.

I'm feeling that a Trip/Dirty Trick build would be good, as a core Monk, but my first feat would have to be Combat Expertise.

[Psyren]

Quick question about Flurry of Blows/Maneuvers. It says as a full-round action, I can make an additional attack/maneuver, though all suffer a -2 penalty. Does this mean that I could move and use a flurry of blows/maneuvers, and, say at lvl 3, get a +1/+1 attacks/maneuvers, or I could make a full-round action and make three attacks/maneuvers at -1/-1/-1?

Assuming I understand your question correctly, it depends on the maneuver you're doing. If it's something you could always do as part of an attack (e.g. trip or sunder,) then you get to use that in place of all your attacks if you want (just like normal), plus you can throw an extra one in. If it's something that normally takes a standard, like Grapple or Dirty Trick, you only get one, but you can full-attack along with it instead of using a standard. If it's something you could normally only do once during a full attack, like Quick Dirty Trick, you get two instead.

Does that help?



Also, With the MM idea, I'd get to disable and trip an opponent, nail them with greater trip, and nail them again with vicious stomp. As they stand up I could nail them a third time. The idea is to effectively use my available feats.

You can do that without MM is what I'm saying. Full attack + QDT -> blind enemy -> trip them with the now reduced CMD for being blind -> now they are blind and prone and you can make the rest of your attacks. And now you can trade out some of those other MM class features for Qinggong or MoMS instead.

[5w337x7007h]

Okay, let me clarify the question. Flurry of Blows states:

Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action.

When doing so, he may make one additional attack, taking a –2 penalty on all of his attack rolls, as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. These attacks can be any combination of unarmed strikes and attacks with a monk special weapon (he does not need to use two weapons to utilize this ability).

Though the Monk Table shows Flurry of Blows as -1/-1 at 1st level.

Does this mean that the table shows a Flurry of Blows as a standard action, or full-round action? If not, does this imply that a full-round action Flurry of Blows would look more like -3/-3/-2?

Also, doesn't MoMS replace Flurry of Blows with Fuse Style?

[Psyren]

Though the Monk Table shows Flurry of Blows as -1/-1 at 1st level.

Let's clear this one up first. Remember that when you flurry you get full BAB. So step by step: when you flurry at 1st-level, you get two attacks at your highest attack bonus (+0/+0.) Each then gets a -2 penalty. (-2/-2.) But, when a monk flurries, their BAB becomes full (+1 at 1st level instead of +0.) Net result: -1/-1. Does that help?



Does this mean that the table shows a Flurry of Blows as a standard action, or full-round action? If not, does this imply that a full-round action Flurry of Blows would look more like -3/-3/-2?

See above = there is no standard action flurry. The numbers you are seeing are the ones for the full-attack/full-round.



Also, doesn't MoMS replace Flurry of Blows with Fuse Style?

MM loses flurry too. I assumed since you were talking about taking MM that you didn't care about losing flurry :smalltongue:

[5w337x7007h]

Well, the issue I'm looking at is, if I go Master of Many Styles, I won't be able to benefit from Pummeling Style until 8th level. Sorry, I'm trying to compile everything into one mishmash of a monk. But then I realize, efforts to get pummeling style could be dropped until later down the line.

If I go MoMS, my starting feat would be Combat Expertise, so I can get Improved Trip and Dirty Trick. Also, I won't be able to use Quick Dirty Trick until 9th level unless there's a way to get it before then.

Whatever the case, I'm not worried about losing Flurry of Blows as long as I can still be effective in combat, though I would enjoy getting Medusa's Wrath, to gain a few extra attacks on an enemy that is hindered by a well-placed stunning fist, or dirty trick.

[5w337x7007h]

So doing feat math, it'd cost me 3 feats to get quick dirty trick, 3 feats to get to greater trip, 1 feat for Vicious Stomp. that's 7 feats all together, which means I'd be level 13 before I had everything working properly.

[5w337x7007h]

Okay, in real life Monkey Style combat relies on evasiveness, jabbing, and grappling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74OBuMA2qEk

This is a prime example of the wonderful art of Drunken Monkey combat, as performed by the great Jackie Chan, a master of many styles. I'm looking at Monk of the Empty Hand, because Jackie constantly improvises as he fights.

[5w337x7007h]

Okay, so I've come up with a build idea.

Monk of the Empty Hand 3
Vanaras

Str 16, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 15, Wis 20, Cha 9

Feats
1 Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes
2 Improved Grapple
3 Improved Trip

I'll be adding Vicious Stomp, Greater Trip, Improved Dirty Trick, Greater Dirty Trick, and Dirty Trick Master. How does this look for a stable build? I'll use drunken combat as flavor.

[Psyren]

FYI - the mods generally frown on double-posting, much less triple- and quadruple-posting.

I'm not a fan of Monk of the Empty Hand because you can't enhance your weapons all the way until 11th level, and even when you can, it caps at +3 until 15th, and only lasts 1 round. The ability to change up which weapon special abilities are on your weapons round to round is nice, but the short duration means you'll burn through your ki very quickly, in addition to taking up your swift actions.

[5w337x7007h]

Thanks for informing me about that double, triple, quadruple posting situation. I had no idea it was a big issue.

Also, the idea with Monk of the Empty Hand is that he doesn't take penalties on improvised weaponry, so would it be possible for a caster to use craft arms and armor to enhance an item with weapon enhancement properties that could turn it into a magical improvised weapon?

[Psyren]

Thanks for informing me about that double, triple, quadruple posting situation. I had no idea it was a big issue.

I don't know that I'd call it a BIG issue but it's under "Please Don't" in the forum rules. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1)


Also, the idea with Monk of the Empty Hand is that he doesn't take penalties on improvised weaponry, so would it be possible for a caster to use craft arms and armor to enhance an item with weapon enhancement properties that could turn it into a magical improvised weapon?

No - the whole idea with improvised weapons is that they are items that aren't designed to be weapons. They are not on any weapons table by definition. Thus you can't add properties to them, except via the Empty Hand's ki pool, which is too finite in amount and duration to be practical.

[5w337x7007h]

What about improvising with weapons then? It states here, under the weapon and armor proficiency "A monk of the empty hand treats normal weapons as improvised weapons with the following equivalencies (substituting all of their statistics for the listed weapon): a light weapon functions as a light hammer, a one-handed weapon functions as a club, and a Two-handed weapon functions as a quarterstaff.".

This would imply that a magical weapon would still work, but only as the improvised equivalent, correct?

[Psyren]

What about improvising with weapons then? It states here, under the weapon and armor proficiency "A monk of the empty hand treats normal weapons as improvised weapons with the following equivalencies (substituting all of their statistics for the listed weapon): a light weapon functions as a light hammer, a one-handed weapon functions as a club, and a Two-handed weapon functions as a quarterstaff.".

This would imply that a magical weapon would still work, but only as the improvised weapon equivalent, correct?

When you use an existing weapon as an improvised weapon, it's magic/enhancement bonuses no longer apply because you are no longer using it as designed. (Relevant FAQ) (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9sk0)

[5w337x7007h]

Well, I would enjoy being able to use the Tengu Drinking Jug as an improvised weapon, and when it comes to bypassing DR and Hardness, my fists will easily take up that path. I imagine a magical gallon jug could be used as a club, so 1d6, and with improvised weapon mastery 1d8. It'd be an effective choice for dirty tricks at 7th level and up, but only in certain situations.

I guess you could say I'm looking to use my environment to my benefit, using what I can to improve my odds. Improvised weapons would just let me benefit from the situation even better.

Also! I've just come up with a vicious combo I can make at lvl 10. Greater Trip, Vicious Stomp, Medusa's Wrath. Trip, triggering two hits, one during the maneuver and one with Vicious Stomp, three unarmed strikes to finish the flurry off, Triggering two ontop of that with Medusa's Wrath. So that's seven hits in one round, if I succeed the trip, five if the trip fails, and none if I manage to trip myself in the process.

So if I'm going to move away from Monk of the Empty Hand, what feat, of the limited choice, would you choose instead of Improvised Weapon Mastery?

[Psyren]

It's less about the DR (as you said, your ki strike covers that) and more about simply having a lower to-hit because you have to manually enhance the weapons every time. After a certain point the game just expects you to have a +X weapon or you'll have trouble hitting anything, and spending 4-5 ki every round to do that isn't sustainable. Monk of the Empty Hand is a lot like Vow of Poverty - it makes a bad situation (fighting without dedicated weapons) better, but doesn't actually make it good, i.e. likely to succeed regularly vs. CR-appropriate foes.

Dirty Trick isn't one of the maneuvers that uses your weapon, so what you're wielding doesn't matter there.

If you're asking me what I would do, I would probably toss out Medusa's Wrath (too little chance to actually work - you have to hit with stunning fist, they have to fail the fort save, then your follow-ups have to hit for the feat to be worthwhile), but I suspect that's not what you want to hear. And of course I would drop Empty Hand and focus simply on enhancing my unarmed strike rather than trying to optimize improvised weapons.

[5w337x7007h]

Alright, which feats would improve my unarmed strikes, because 6th and 10th are bonus feats chosen from the list.

[Psyren]

As I said earlier in the thread, I'd probably be going for either Maneuver Master or MoMS for this build, and those get better feats to choose from. Flowing Monk is another good option if you want to be a tripper, and has a better feat list.

[5w337x7007h]

I'm not sure how Flurry of Maneuvers works. Does it mean that I can only make maneuvers for a full-round action, or can I start with unarmed strikes and follow with maneuvers, incurring penalties for each extra maneuver? A -12 seems pretty steep for three extra maneuvers at 15th level.

I guess I'm just worried that if I give up flurry of blows, I'll lose some of my combat effectiveness.

I'd like my character to fight like Jackie Chan in how he uses his environment, that's what drew me to Monk of the Empty Hand. Jackie uses his unarmed strikes regularly, but will instinctively perform dirty tricks or improvise weapons in combat to gain an advantage.

Psyren, you want me to back away from Monk of the Empty Hand, so I will.

Now I'm looking at the Maneuver Master, and I'm trying to think of a balanced approach at building this character, any recommendations? How does this look?

1 Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes
2b Improved Grapple
3 Improved Trip
5 Vicious Stomp
6 Greater Trip
7 Improved Dirty Trick
9 Greater Dirty Trick
10 Greater Grapple
11
13
14
15 Dirty Trick Master

Would it be too much to attempt to get the Neckbreaker feat chain?