I want to use but not abuse sacred geometry.

[Elric VIII]

Sacred Geometry (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/sacred-geometry) is a cool feat that adds a fun minigame to the spellcasting process. It is also horribly overpowered in that it is a 3-for-1 feat that makes any PF caster an Incantatrix. I kind of want to make a character that uses it, however I want to put it into a build that won't make it unreasonable.

My thought is that putting it on a sorcerer would be the first step in making it bearable. Increasing my casting times to 1 round is a lot more of a detriment compared to the full round action of prepared casters, so this should create a bigger opportunity cost. Additionally, I can roll and calculate during the other players' rounds to minimize the game slowing factor.

Then I need to figure out some decent, but not overpowering metamagic feats to apply. Echoing spell is probably out, but what else should I avoid?

Does anyone with experience with this feat have any guidance for me?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Oh geez, this feat. This **** feat. You see the thing in my signature? This is exactly the sort of **** it's talking about.

<deep breath>

Anyway. You'll want to look for crappy metamagic feats that don't actually do much of anything. Thoughts on good looking ones:

Burning Spell
Concussive Spell
Ectoplasmic Spell
Flaring Spell
Heighten Spell
Intensified Spell
Merciful Spell
Tenebrous Spell
Sickening Spell
Silent Spell
Still Spell


As an alternative, try asking your GM if you can have it give you a caster level bonus instead of metamagic-- say, twice the effective spell level increase. That would be far more balanced, although still obnoxious.

[OldTrees1]

Proof related to Sacred Geometry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17889602&postcount=131).

[Necromancy]

Anything to make every combat round last an hour...

[The Random NPC]

...Increasing my casting times to 1 round is a lot more of a detriment compared to the full round action of prepared casters, so this should create a bigger opportunity cost....

This is not how metamagics work. For spontaneous casters, the spells gets increased to 1 full round action, or adds a full round action if it is already a full round action or longer. Prepared casters have no increase in casting time.

[TheIronGolem]

Maximize Spell would be my first suggestion, if only to remove one roll and thus slightly mitigate the absurd gameplay-speedtrap that is Sacred Geometry.

Toppling Spell would be good too; knocking enemies prone makes things easier on your teammates, so other players are more likely to forgive you for stopping to play a math minigame.

Other good ones would include Silent Spell and Still Spell, since they're too situational to come up all that frequently.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

This is not how metamagics work. For spontaneous casters, the spells gets increased to 1 full round action, or adds a full round action if it is already a full round action or longer. Prepared casters have no increase in casting time.

It is, however, how metamagic feats applied spontaneously through Sacred Geometry works. To wit:



Using a feat in this way increases the spell's casting time to the casting time it would take if the character were a sorcerer or bard (sorcerers and bards using this ability increase the spell's casting time by two categories);

With regard to using, but not abusing, Sacred Geometry - I'm not sure this is possible. At least, not without making serious changes to how the feat works. Free metamagic is extremely good; spontaneous metamagic is nothing to shake a stick at; both together, for the low low price of one feat (with the added bonus of granting you access to two new metamagic feats in the bargain) is absurdly good.

I suppose using it to pick up all of those fun metamagics which otherwise don't get used might work, but it still adds the spontaneous free metamagic thing, so it's still a fantastically powerful feat.

[Ashes]

This is not how metamagics work. For spontaneous casters, the spells gets increased to 1 full round action, or adds a full round action if it is already a full round action or longer. Prepared casters have no increase in casting time.

The feat increases casting time for all casters.

[Psyren]

If you don't proof it to auto-win, it will make combat take much longer, and combat is the longest part of the game as it is. I suggest you just avoid this feat entirely.

[The Random NPC]

It is, however, how metamagic feats applied spontaneously through Sacred Geometry works. To wit:...


The feat increases casting time for all casters.

I must have missed that when I first looked at it. Still though, that just means the prepared caster works like a spontaneous caster, while the spontaneous caster takes 2 extra full round actions (that is if it's a standard action, it now takes 2 full round actions, and if it is longer it adds 2). Unless I'm missing something else.

[Darkweave31]

I would highly recommend just fluffing your magic as being formula based. Just don't use that feat. The why has pretty much been covered, so don't. Just theme your spells for the flavor you want to achieve.

[Kantolin]

I second (third? fifth?) the idea of selecting weaker metamagics that ordinarily wouldn't get used. That's the quickest way to reign in a powerful feat.

Insofar as the speed issue... I dunno. I suppose it's like a summoner (the schtick, not necessarily the class) - I know I can do the math for Sacred Geometry extremely quickly such that my turns would still be faster than most of my group's in most groups I've played with. But I also know of people who usually have the whole table whining at them while trying to get flanking as a rogue. So meh.

[icefractal]

I don't think that the time factor is necessarily a problem. First off, you might be able to do it quickly. And secondly, once you have enough ranks, you don't even have to roll any more, it succeeds automatically.

But let's say neither of those is the case - it takes a while for you to do the calculations. There's a simple solution:
1) Before your turn happens, decide what spell you're going to metamagic with it and roll for it.
2) If that choice no longer makes sense by the time it gets to your turn, just cast a spell without SG.
3) If it still applies, but you haven't finished calculating, delay action until you've finished.

No extra RL time required.


As for being overpowered - Pathfinder has a lot of metamagic feats that aren't really worth the cost. Use any of those. Really, if you stay away from Quicken you're probably fine - it doesn't let you exceed what you could normally do after all, just makes your lower level spells more useful, improving endurance.

[Elric VIII]

It is, however, how metamagic feats applied spontaneously through Sacred Geometry works. To wit:



With regard to using, but not abusing, Sacred Geometry - I'm not sure this is possible. At least, not without making serious changes to how the feat works. Free metamagic is extremely good; spontaneous metamagic is nothing to shake a stick at; both together, for the low low price of one feat (with the added bonus of granting you access to two new metamagic feats in the bargain) is absurdly good.

I suppose using it to pick up all of those fun metamagics which otherwise don't get used might work, but it still adds the spontaneous free metamagic thing, so it's still a fantastically powerful feat.

Okay, so I am correct in my assumption here? That on a sorcerer I choose the spell to cast, roll and calculate during other players' turns, then tell the GM whether it fires off successfully at the beginning of my next turn? I mean, I doubt it will take me longer that 3 other people plus NPCs to do some arithmetic.

So, I was thinking about going with Seeking Spell and Selective Spell to give my spells added versatility without too much raw power increase. Also, affecting areas plays into the geometry bit.

[grarrrg]

Okay, so I am correct in my assumption here? That on a sorcerer I choose the spell to cast, roll and calculate during other players' turns, then tell the GM whether it fires off successfully at the beginning of my next turn? I mean, I doubt it will take me longer that 3 other people plus NPCs to do some arithmetic.

I'm against Sacred Geometry at all but...

As far as 'actual solving' goes, if you find you can hit your target number with some of the dice, and have at least 3 dice leftover, then those extra 3+ dice can/will cancel out (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17883351&postcount=115).