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fattybear
2015-04-07, 07:30 PM
Looking for any feedback on this new warlock pact I made up!

Warlock Pact: Slaad

Description:
Your patron is a slaad lord, the most powerful of grotesque creatures formed from pure chaos and horrific reproductive cycles. Its motives are to sow discord and bring down the laws of man and, if possible, nature itself. Slaad lords powerful enough to grant pacts include Chourst, Lord of Randomness; Rennbuu, Lord of Colors; Ssendam, Lord of Madness; Ygori, Lord of Entropy; and other chaotic beings.
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Level 1: Chaotic Body and Mind
Starting at 1st level, you are able to use a bonus action to transform your fists into fearsome claws at will. You are proficient in using your claws and you can use your claws to make an unarmed attack inflicting d4 slashing damage. The damage increases one die level at the 5th and 11th warlock level. Your exposure to the slaadi mind and language has allowed you to understand and speak Slaadi. You are able to communicate telepathically with slaadi up to 30 feet.

If you choose Pact of the Blade, your claws are now considered magical for the purposes of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage. Your claws are also considered a pact weapon for the purposes of working with the relevant blade pact invocations.

Level 6: Slaadi Skin
You have learned to harness the chaotic energy provided by your patron to acquire the slaadi's thick skin. When a creature casts a spell at you, you can use your reaction to receive advantage on the spell saving throw or magical effect. This can be used once every long rest. When you aren't wearing armor, your AC equals 13 + your DEX modifier.

You may choose to adopt the skin tones of the slaad. At level 6, your skin has a very faint green color. At level 10, your skin takes on an ashy gray color. At level 14, your skin a faint, light black color.

Level 10: Sow Discord
You revel in causing chaos in battle and befuddling your enemies. You learn the confusion spell if you do not already know it and it does not count towards your spells known. You can cast confusion once without expending one of your spell slots. This feature can only be used once every long rest.

Level 14: Seeds of Chaos
On a successful unarmed attack or scraping of the skin with your claws on an incapacitated humanoid, you can choose to infect him with a disease called the chaos phage. The humanoid must make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC or become diseased. On a successful save, nothing happens to the humanoid. On a failed save, within 2d12 hours, the person will die as a slaadi tadpole bursts out of the humanoid's insides. The tadpole will transform into a red or blue slaad in 2d12 hours. If the humanoid dies before full incubation, the tadpole will not survive but the body remains a potential source of infection for 24 hours. The phage can be spread if exposed to the diseased humanoid's blood.

Every time you use this feature, you tap into the slaad's regenerative nature and recover health equivalent to your warlock level times 3, allowing you to sustain your spread of mayhem. You can recover health regardless of whether the disease successfully took hold.This feature can only be used once every long rest.

Slaad Pact Spells
L1: Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Grease
L2: Detect Thoughts, Alter Self
L3: Stinking Cloud, Slow
L4: Polymorph, Compulsion
L5: Mislead, Modify Memory

Familiar: Stunted Slaadi
Tiny Aberration
Chaotic Neutral
Description: Stunted slaadi are tadpoles who transformed into a red or blue slaadi, but due to the nature of chaos magic, did not successfully make a full transformation. It retains some abilities of its larger brethren and its tadpole roots. While they obey their warlock masters, they have a tendency to do their own thing unless otherwise told due to their undisciplined nature.
AC: 13, HP: 10
Senses: Darkvision 60ft. Can understand but not speak Slaadi.
Damage Resistance: acid, cold, fire, lightning, thunder
Magic Resistance: the slaadi has advantage on all spell saving throws and magical effects.
Regeneration: The slaadi recovers 5 HP at the end of its turn if it has more than 0 HP.
Shapechanger: The slaad can use its action to polymorph into a beast form that resembles a bat (speed 10ft. fly 40ft.), a centipede (40ft., climb 40ft.), or a toad (40ft., swim 40ft.), or back into its true form . Its statistics are the same in each
form, except for the speed changes noted. Any equipment it is wearing or carrying isn't transformed . It reverts to its true form if it dies.
Bite: Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft, one target. Hit: 4 (1d4 + 2) piercing damage.


ALTERNATE LEVEL 1 and LEVEL 6 FEATURES
Level 1: Starting at 1st level, you are able to use a bonus action to transform your fists into fearsome claws at will. You are proficient in using your claws and you can use your claws to make an unarmed attack inflicting d6 slashing damage. The damage increases to d8 slashing damage at the 5th warlock level. Your exposure to the slaadi mind and language has allowed you to understand and speak Slaadi. You are able to communicate telepathically with slaadi up to 30 feet.

Unpredictable Resistance: Starting at the 1st level, your body has been exposed to the chaotic nature and magic of the slaadi. As a result, your skin is able to resist the elements but due to its random nature, the resistance fluctuates day by day. After each long rest, roll d6. You gain the following resistance for the day.
1 - None, 2 - Thunder, 3 - Cold, 4 - Lightning, 5 - Acid, 6 - Fire

If you choose Pact of the Blade, your claws are now considered magical for the purposes of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage. Your claws are also considered a pact weapon for the purposes of working with the relevant blade pact invocations.

Level 6: Tap Wild Magic
You have learned to harness the chaotic energy of wild magic. After casting a spell or as an action, you may choose to roll d100 for the wild magic surge table. If you roll 99 or 100, instead of recovering expended sorcery points, you recover any expended pact magic spell slots (arcanum spell slots do not apply). This feature can only be used once every long rest.

Ralcos
2015-04-08, 11:30 PM
Okay. THIS is frickin' awesome!

MrStabby
2015-04-09, 04:13 AM
I think this is about the first well balanced class/subclass I have seen as a first attempt on these forums (or maybe I am just missing the tricks!).


Not what I would chose to play myself but pretty cool and i think a lot of people will enjoy this.

Flashy
2015-04-09, 05:26 AM
Seeds of chaos is way too powerful. As written it's a superior version of the Old One 14th level ability combined with a superior version of the Fiend 1st level ability. 42-60 hit points per downed humanoid forever? Just wander around the battlefield after a fight finishing people off and you're topped off for the next one. You have to be fighting humanoids, and you have to make sure that last blow in combat is hitting for nonlethal but that's not really much of a restriction. Make it 1/long rest or at least make it give temporary hit points so you can't stack it and you're starting to approach the realms of the reasonable. Even then I'd probably drop the healing to warlock level + charisma modifier (to keep it in line with Dark One's Blessing). If you decide to go the temporary hit point route then make sure to add that any creature that makes it Con save is immune to the ability for 24 hours or there's no reason the warlock can't sit there using the ability over and over until it works.

I would also change the wording to something along the lines of "You may use an action to attempt to infect an incapacitated humanoid with a disease called the chaos phage." because the references to unarmed attacks confused me. I thought at first it was an option you could use every time you made an unarmed attack, which would be preposterous.

You also might consider taking polymorph and slow off the spell list. There are specific invocations that lets you cast those 1/long rest through a spell slot, so you'd be directly invalidating existing warlock class features. Those invocations are arguably pretty silly, but I wanted to be sure that you're overriding them intentionally.


I really like the other features though, and I adore the overarching concept.

MrStabby
2015-04-09, 08:31 AM
Seeds of chaos is way too powerful. As written it's a superior version of the Old One 14th level ability combined with a superior version of the Fiend 1st level ability. 42-60 hit points per downed humanoid forever? Just wander around the battlefield after a fight finishing people off and you're topped off for the next one. You have to be fighting humanoids, and you have to make sure that last blow in combat is hitting for nonlethal but that's not really much of a restriction. Make it 1/long rest or at least make it give temporary hit points so you can't stack it and you're starting to approach the realms of the reasonable. Even then I'd probably drop the healing to warlock level + charisma modifier (to keep it in line with Dark One's Blessing). If you decide to go the temporary hit point route then make sure to add that any creature that makes it Con save is immune to the ability for 24 hours or there's no reason the warlock can't sit there using the ability over and over until it works.

I would also change the wording to something along the lines of "You may use an action to attempt to infect an incapacitated humanoid with a disease called the chaos phage." because the references to unarmed attacks confused me. I thought at first it was an option you could use every time you made an unarmed attack, which would be preposterous.

You also might consider taking polymorph and slow off the spell list. There are specific invocations that lets you cast those 1/long rest through a spell slot, so you'd be directly invalidating existing warlock class features. Those invocations are arguably pretty silly, but I wanted to be sure that you're overriding them intentionally.


I really like the other features though, and I adore the overarching concept.

Well you get no control over your Slaadi offspring, so I don't think a comparison with Thrall is quite warranted. Also, as it is this ability is listed as once per long rest.

Submortimer
2015-04-09, 09:47 AM
I super like this! Very flavorful, and appropriate for the warlock class!



Level 1: Chaotic Body and Mind
Starting at 1st level, you are able to use a bonus action to transform your fists into fearsome claws at will. You are proficient in using your claws and you can use your claws to make an unarmed attack inflicting d4 slashing damage. The damage increases one die level at the 5th and 11th warlock level. Your exposure to the slaadi mind and language has allowed you to understand and speak Slaadi. You are able to communicate telepathically with slaadi up to 30 feet.

If you choose Pact of the Blade, your claws are now considered magical for the purposes of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage. Your claws are also considered a pact weapon for the purposes of working with the relevant blade pact invocations.


Since the telepathy is ONLY for Sladdi (and who wants to talk to those guys anyways) it's not anywhere close to being as useful as GOO's telepathy. That being said, this is easily one of the best/most powerful level 1 warlock abilities yet. If it stuck with 1d4 claws, maybe not so much, but 3d4 is pretty nuts. Id ad some verbage in there discussion weather or not you can get the benefits with both of your claws, otherwise you're looking at a a round of combat where (Assuming maxed applicable stats) you're doing 9d4+30 with your claws. that's far and away the best Bladelock option available.



Level 6: Slaadi Skin
You have learned to harness the chaotic energy provided by your patron to acquire the slaadi's thick skin. When a creature casts a spell at you, you can use your reaction to receive advantage on the spell saving throw or magical effect. This can be used once every long rest. When you aren't wearing armor, your AC equals 13 + your DEX modifier.

You may choose to adopt the skin tones of the slaad. At level 6, your skin has a very faint green color. At level 10, your skin takes on an ashy gray color. At level 14, your skin a faint, light black color.


Free Armor of shadows. No issues there. Advantage on a saving throw 1/long rest? Might be slightly unbalanced, but i don't think it's too bad.



Level 10: Sow Discord
You revel in causing chaos in battle and befuddling your enemies. You learn the confusion spell if you do not already know it and it does not count towards your spells known. You can cast confusion once without expending one of your spell slots. This feature can only be used once every long rest.


No issues here. Fits thematically.



Level 14: Seeds of Chaos
On a successful unarmed attack or scraping of the skin with your claws on an incapacitated humanoid, you can choose to infect him with a disease called the chaos phage. The humanoid must make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC or become diseased. On a successful save, nothing happens to the humanoid. On a failed save, within 2d12 hours, the person will die as a slaadi tadpole bursts out of the humanoid's insides. The tadpole will transform into a red or blue slaad in 2d12 hours. If the humanoid dies before full incubation, the tadpole will not survive but the body remains a potential source of infection for 24 hours. The phage can be spread if exposed to the diseased humanoid's blood.

Every time you use this feature, you tap into the slaad's regenerative nature and recover health equivalent to your warlock level times 3, allowing you to sustain your spread of mayhem. You can recover health regardless of whether the disease successfully took hold.This feature can only be used once every long rest.


The healing part i don't really care about. It's good, but as MrStabby said, it's only once per long rest. What is MORE of an issue is the Save or die. I'm AFB, so I could be wrong, but i'm fairly certain that the only actual save or die spell in the game is PWK, and that's a 9th level ability. I would personally change it to deal a significant amount of damage vice kill outright; otherwise, it's a 9th level spell you get three levels early, and without the 100 HP limit that PWK has.



Slaad Pact Spells
L1: Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Grease
L2: Detect Thoughts, Alter Self
L3: Stinking Cloud, Slow
L4: Polymorph, Compulsion
L5: Mislead, Modify Memory


Good , fun spell list. i approve.

MrStabby
2015-04-09, 10:17 AM
That being said, this is easily one of the best/most powerful level 1 warlock abilities yet. If it stuck with 1d4 claws, maybe not so much, but 3d4 is pretty nuts. Id ad some verbage in there discussion weather or not you can get the benefits with both of your claws, otherwise you're looking at a a round of combat where (Assuming maxed applicable stats) you're doing 9d4+30 with your claws. that's far and away the best Bladelock option available.





The healing part i don't really care about. It's good, but as MrStabby said, it's only once per long rest. What is MORE of an issue is the Save or die. I'm AFB, so I could be wrong, but i'm fairly certain that the only actual save or die spell in the game is PWK, and that's a 9th level ability. I would personally change it to deal a significant amount of damage vice kill outright; otherwise, it's a 9th level spell you get three levels early, and without the 100 HP limit that PWK has.



Good , fun spell list. i approve.

Quivering Palm is save or die as well. I had kind of discounted the save or die effects of this as i had thought that the duration would be longer than combat (you pretty much trigger hostility if you go for this if not already fighting). Scratch and run as a tactic now? Maybe working but DMs might find plot reasons to hurry you.

Given the duration I would also give an ability to overcome it - restoration, successful medicine check (DC20) or similar.

I had interpreted the d4 on the damage done to be the weapon damage so I was expecting to not add Cha bonus damage more than once.

Flashy
2015-04-09, 10:23 AM
Well you get no control over your Slaadi offspring, so I don't think a comparison with Thrall is quite warranted. Also, as it is this ability is listed as once per long rest.

Wow my eye super skipped over the long rest part for some reason. I feel incredibly silly.


But having no magical control over the Slaadi offspring isn't really the same as having no control at all. You speak slaadi, and can communicate telepathically with slaadi within 30 feet. A warlock with a persuasion proficiency could make a solid attempt to seize control of this new Slaad army. The warlock almost certainly could talk them into leaving him/her alone.

Even the Slaad are entirely uncontrollable however I'm hesitant about an ability that functions on the level of destroying villages and small towns, which is what we're talking about with the ability to generate Blue Slaad. The ability to summon/create a CR 7 creature (even an uncontrolled one) is the sort of thing you normally get through high level spell slots, and I have trouble seeing how this is equivalent to 55 average damage once per long rest, at will charm, or the ability to frighten someone for a minute (with cool secondary effects) once per short rest.


Since the telepathy is ONLY for Sladdi (and who wants to talk to those guys anyways) it's not anywhere close to being as useful as GOO's telepathy. That being said, this is easily one of the best/most powerful level 1 warlock abilities yet. If it stuck with 1d4 claws, maybe not so much, but 3d4 is pretty nuts. Id ad some verbage in there discussion weather or not you can get the benefits with both of your claws, otherwise you're looking at a a round of combat where (Assuming maxed applicable stats) you're doing 9d4+30 with your claws. that's far and away the best Bladelock option available.

I believe the increasing die size means you're going from 1d4 to 1d6 and then from 1d6 to 1d8, not that you're adding additional d4s at each stage.

Submortimer
2015-04-09, 12:01 PM
I had interpreted the d4 on the damage done to be the weapon damage so I was expecting to not add Cha bonus damage more than once.

I'm not either. My math is this:
- Three Attacks with the claws (Normal attack, Thirsting Blade, and TWF)
- Damage for each attack (Assuming 20 cha, 20 str, and lifedrinker) is 3d4+10, 3d4+10 and 3d4+5 (I made the mistake of adding the strength bonus on the TWF attack)
- 9d4+25, or 47.5 avg at level 12. By comparison, at the same level, EB is doing approx 31.5 and a fighter with a greatsword is doing approx. 36.

Submortimer
2015-04-09, 12:03 PM
I believe the increasing die size means you're going from 1d4 to 1d6 and then from 1d6 to 1d8, not that you're adding additional d4s at each stage.

...yes. That's right. Dang, I missed that somehow. That actually makes it a much less broken option.

fattybear
2015-04-09, 01:14 PM
Wow this got a lot more response than I thought. Thanks for all the feedback. To clarify, I was thinking the claw damage would increase from d4 to d6 to d8, not adding another d4 dice each time. Sorry for the confusion.

As for seeds of chaos, I figured it would be tough to influence any Saladin you help create. I agree spawning red or blue Saladin every couple days may be a bit much but sounded pretty neat. I included the healing because I wanted to integrate slaadi regeneration somehow without being too overpowered. Do you think infection should only be allowed against unconscious humanoids instead of incapacitated as is currently written?

fattybear
2015-04-09, 01:25 PM
Also, I actually tweaked the abilities a little bit as others told me the claws weren't nearly as good as the fiend and GOO level 1s. What do you think of this:

Level 1: Slaad telepathy remains the same. Claws are upgraded to d8 but now do not increase in power as you level. You also have Slaad skin, granting 13+DEX modifier.

Level 6: Tap wild magic
You have learned to harness the chaotic energy of wild magic. After casting a spell or as an action, you may choose to roll d100 from the wild magic surge table. If you roll 99 or 100, instead of recovering expended sorcery points, you recover any expended pact spell slots (arcanum spells do not apply). You may only use this feature once per long rest.

Flashy
2015-04-09, 02:10 PM
I asked this above but it probably got lost in with that big paragraph of me not reading the class features correctly. Are you intentionally overriding the Sculptor of Flesh and Mire the Mind invocations? Polymorph and Slow are both 1/day through a spell slot invocations and while that set of invocations as a whole are pretty lame adding invocation spells to the patron list does make the archetype somewhat stronger.

I'm not saying it's bad or even too powerful, it's just an easy thing to miss and I wanted to be sure you knew you were doing it.


I quite like the wild magic ability.

fattybear
2015-04-09, 02:52 PM
I mostly selected those spells because they seemed to fit very well with slaad and causing mayhem. I did notice that they were invocations but agree with you that they are pretty lame as an invocation. it probably does make them a tiny bit stronger since that opens up different invocations they can select instead.

Gr7mm Bobb
2015-05-12, 11:50 AM
I definitely like the way this is portrayed. If me or my group find a way to break this i'll let you know, but for now great job.

Also 14th level being potentially responsible for a Slaadi-pocalypse is somehow appealing. Hello BEBG.:smallbiggrin:

This also got my attention because one of my current GM's is having one of the many powers at play use slaadi as a large scale distraction. Hard to investigate a wizard in charge while there's a war going on with an alien host.

fattybear
2015-05-12, 10:04 PM
That is great to hear! Hopefully you find a good way to integrate a slaad warlock into your game. The time frame for the slaad to incubate and grow up is a bit off from the MM upon closer inspection so the timeline from infection to chest-bursting goodness can definitely be tweaked.

jkat718
2015-05-13, 11:52 AM
That is great to hear! Hopefully you find a good way to integrate a slaad warlock into your game. The time frame for the slaad to incubate and grow up is a bit off from the MM upon closer inspection so the timeline from infection to chest-bursting goodness can definitely be tweaked.

Yeah, the Red Slaad can "inject" an egg, which completes gestation into a Slaad Tadpole at 3 months (for 24 hours before birth, the host does have some mechanical issues). The host is then clawed apart from the inside as the tadpole emerges, taking a single round. The tadpole dies if the Chaos Phage is healed before it gets out; otherwise, it matures after 2d12 hours. So the only difference is that the Warlock's Seeds of Chaos mature in 2d12 hours, rather than 3 months. Maybe it's a perk?

fattybear
2015-05-13, 07:27 PM
Yea a couple hours versus a couple months is a big difference. I definitely goofed on that. It's homebrew anyway so can be played to whatever makes most sense.