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Combat Reflexes
2015-04-08, 07:41 AM
Dear Playground,

My gaming group will be switching from pathfinder to d&d 5e very soon, and we all have to create new characters - no problem here.

I decided to create Grimm, an anti-stereotype dwarven cleric (less holy smackdown, buffs and plate armour and more finesse). Grimm is a dwarf who's not like most dwarves - he likes herbal tea over alcohol, loves being outdoors just as much as being underground, et cetera. He also has a criminal past: he used to smuggle all kinds of things (legal or otherwise) in and out of well-guarded dwarven cities and lands, so he has the Criminal background, which I really like.

However, there's one problem: I have no idea how and why this smuggling eccentric would become a cleric of the Light, which creates a huge hole in my backstory. The only way I can think of is being converted by another cleric, but that option seems kind of.. meh.

Playgrounders, can you help me fix this huge plot hole? Or do I have to drop the criminal background for something like folk hero or acolyte?

TL;DR: In what believable way does a criminal end up as a NG cleric?

CR.

kaoskonfety
2015-04-08, 07:56 AM
off the top of my head... NG angles for criminal

"what were you smuggling?"
- food for starving neighbours nations poor, neighbours your nation was at war with/has an embargo
- dwarven secrets: indoor plumbing, crude electricity, flash bulbs, glowing stones

"dwarven laws are weird"
- you like coffee, but its illegal (addictive, stunts growth *oh no!*, being jittery is BAD in a mine)
- similarly some worship requirement of your (non-dwarven sun) deity is outlawed

"The local dwarven empire/clan/town is in fact: EVIL"
- freedom fighter, counter insurgent, Robin Hood types

You personally:
- you are a rebellious angsty teen dwarf "criminal" in that you need to keep your activities hidden as they are dis-approved of by your parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, nephews, nieces and so on - "Good gods your beard is FAKE? YOU SHAVED! GO TO YOUR ROOM!" (possibly again tenants of your freaky surface wack job faith)

D.U.P.A.
2015-04-08, 07:59 AM
Trickery clerics are the most probably criminal clerics by fluff. Or it will be light domain?

Joe the Rat
2015-04-08, 08:27 AM
I suppose that depends on whether or not his "smuggling ways" are part of his past, or part of his present.

Yeah, the obvious option is "the cleric with a shady past, who has since seen the light." That's enough of a groaner that being able to use it once in the campaign makes it a worthwhile option. If you don't like the redemption angle, (or the "you had a choice between joining the clergy or going to dwarf prison" version), then you are looking at smuggling for "good" reasons.

Besides what people have already mentioned, what if the smuggling side wasn't against the dwarven trade controls, but with outsiders? Sneaking your exceptional ales into elven lands, bypassing "unfair" tariffs to make better deals with Human merchants, or getting past Duergar and Drow to deliver supplies to the Svirfneblin. Or getting anything food related through Halfling Shires. You may have been more Neutral in the past, but started taking on more "pro-bono" and "noble cause" jobs.

Becoming the Mask is an option as well. You posed as a member of clergy as cover for your group's operations, and your 'research" for the role led you to take up the faith.

Now then, the fun one is to turn this around. Instead of Criminal being what you did before going cleric, what about a Light Cleric using his divine magic to help engage in smuggling? This one clearly requires you to be working against some evil or obstructively lawful group, acting for the greater good. This doesn't necessarily have to be approved by your seniors, or even that they would be aware of your actions.

Borrowing something from our D4 game, we had a Pelorite Priest that received regular shipments of some rather expensive wine, which for some reason was prohibited in that area. An otherwise upstanding novice that spent a fair amount of his time sneaking wine in to his master (Because elf wines are not allowed in Dwarf strongholds?) would probably need to cultivate some questionable skills and contacts.

JAL_1138
2015-04-08, 08:35 AM
in the book this is in a different context and not nearly so literal, but:

"[A]lways moving on, selling glass as diamond, but somehow it just didn’t seem to work any more, the flair wasn’t there, the fun had dropped out of it, even the cards didn’t seem to work for him, the money ran out, and one winter in some inn that was no more than a slum he turned his face to the wall--
--And an angel appeared."

--Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Shining Wrath
2015-04-08, 08:37 AM
I think the basics have been laid out:
1) He was once bad, is now redeemed
2) The smuggling was never that bad in the first place

For another variant
3) He's a good guy, but the church hierarchy is corrupt, and he was ordered by superiors to perform the smuggling, and thus he is a sincere follower of Moradin whose superiors worship The Almighty Platinum Piece. He's learned his trade as a smuggler well, and has all the skills, but he's not sure he wants to do it any longer

randomodo
2015-04-08, 09:32 AM
Light cleric doesn't imply LAWFUL Good; if there are laws that a CG or NG character would consider dumb or counterproductive, then a good character could certainly be a smuggler (even a smuggler in a Lawful Good society), so long as the character believed that what he was doing was merely illegal rather than morally wrong/evil.

Palegreenpants
2015-04-08, 09:37 AM
Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Valjean.

Slipperychicken
2015-04-08, 11:59 AM
TL;DR: In what believable way does a criminal end up as a NG cleric?


What if he was a cleric, but then turned to smuggling once criminals explained that he could make mad dosh moving product? Clerics have pretty good cover; no-one would expect a holy man to be packing a hollowed-out bible full of devilweed.

Giant2005
2015-04-08, 12:09 PM
Criminal learns the consequences of his smuggling the hard way - the whatever he was smuggling into town resulted in the death of someone he cares about. One significant existential crisis later and he found himself devoted to a god of light in the hopes of finding redemption/forgiveness.

Combat Reflexes
2015-04-08, 02:05 PM
Thanks for the great replies! :smallredface:



off the top of my head... NG angles for criminal

"what were you smuggling?"
- food for starving neighbours nations poor, neighbours your nation was at war with/has an embargo
- dwarven secrets: indoor plumbing, crude electricity, flash bulbs, glowing stones

"dwarven laws are weird"
- you like coffee, but its illegal (addictive, stunts growth *oh no!*, being jittery is BAD in a mine)
- similarly some worship requirement of your (non-dwarven sun) deity is outlawed

"The local dwarven empire/clan/town is in fact: EVIL"
- freedom fighter, counter insurgent, Robin Hood types



-snip-

Besides what people have already mentioned, what if the smuggling side wasn't against the dwarven trade controls, but with outsiders? Sneaking your exceptional ales into elven lands, bypassing "unfair" tariffs to make better deals with Human merchants, or getting past Duergar and Drow to deliver supplies to the Svirfneblin. Or getting anything food related through Halfling Shires. You may have been more Neutral in the past, but started taking on more "pro-bono" and "noble cause" jobs.

I like these ideas - a smuggler who is only a criminal according to local legislation. Perfect.
Maybe Grimm has spent his life as a Good smuggler working against the Law for all the right reasons. Bonus points because I get to use cheesy one-liners like "I do what is right, not what is 'good'."



in the book this is in a different context and not nearly so literal, but:

"[A]lways moving on, selling glass as diamond, but somehow it just didn’t seem to work any more, the flair wasn’t there, the fun had dropped out of it, even the cards didn’t seem to work for him, the money ran out, and one winter in some inn that was no more than a slum he turned his face to the wall--
--And an angel appeared."

--Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

I JUST read that book. What are the odds D:

MrStabby
2015-04-08, 02:57 PM
Maybe his faith is heretical where he comes from? A Duergar cleric worshipping light domain may not go down too well. He has had to live in that society by his wits, converting people and building his flock where he can. His smuggling operation is smuggling people of his faith out of the country to where it is safer for them to practice their faith?

Vogonjeltz
2015-04-08, 04:04 PM
However, there's one problem: I have no idea how and why this smuggling eccentric would become a cleric of the Light, which creates a huge hole in my backstory. The only way I can think of is being converted by another cleric, but that option seems kind of.. meh.

Playgrounders, can you help me fix this huge plot hole? Or do I have to drop the criminal background for something like folk hero or acolyte?

TL;DR: In what believable way does a criminal end up as a NG cleric?

CR.

The reformed murderer Jean val jean would like a word, or two. (check youtube for "Valjean's soliloquy" and "Who Am I?" from Les Miserables)
His change is motivated by the compassion of another and guilt over his actions.

The Onion Knight, Davos Seaworth, provides a different take, although he doesn't take to religion, he's Neutral Good (always has been based on his backstory) reformed from his smuggling past after providing aid to Stannis Baratheon and being rewarded for it (while at the same time receiving what he considers a fair punishment for his past crimes).
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Davos_Seaworth

So you have a couple options for why the change might occur, it might be helpful to check out the Personality Trait, Ideal, and Bond section under the Criminal to see what you think would make for an interesting fit.

I'd suggest Personality Options 2, 4, 5, 6, or 7
Ideals: 3 or 6
Bond: 1, 2, 5, or 6.

eastmabl
2015-04-08, 05:56 PM
This is a Greyhawk-focused answer because the pun doesn't work any other way. Also, I am going to use the concept as an NPC for a Greyhawk Reborn adventure in the near future.

Your Dwarven character was a smuggler who was fleeing the port authority and sought shelter in the temple of Rao, god of serenity and peace. The temple would not permit the officers of the port authority to remove your dwarf from the temple by force. You remained at the temple for five years, slowly becoming accustomed to the faith and eventually adopting the faith. Having heard the call of Rao, you become a priest of Rao. Given your sincere, deeply held religious belief, the mayor of the city drops the charges against you and allows you to minister to the flock outside the temple walls.

However, everyone still remembers you for your time spent fighting the charges, and refers to you as the "Crook of Rao."

Magic Myrmidon
2015-04-08, 05:58 PM
Could do something like Pulp Fiction. That suitcase sure was shiny. A cleric of "Light", or, the shiny reflection of gold coins, certainly fits with cleric criminal. The worship of money. Not necessarily good, though, I guess.

Joe the Rat
2015-04-09, 10:17 AM
I am reminded that Light covers Fire this time around, giving you the other half of Loki's portfolio.
That might be harder to mesh with "Good."

randomodo
2015-04-09, 11:17 AM
I am reminded that Light covers Fire this time around, giving you the other half of Loki's portfolio.
That might be harder to mesh with "Good."

I don't think there's even remotely a problem with fire being good. Fire, after all, is a prerequisite for civilization. The mere fact that a diety characterized as "evil" has fire within his portfolio doesn't mean that it's inherently evil.

Many concepts/domains can fall at any point along the spectrum. Consider war (the "athena v ares" construct in Neal Stephenson); consider the question of whether a god of the oceans is a provider of food and commerce one one hand or the dangerously chaotic Umberlee on the other, or whether a death god is the neutral kelemvor or the evil myrkul, it's all in how it is presented.